Leec33

Who here drives with DSC completely off...?

I have only had the car a few weeks so still new to it, but drive in sport mostly, yet recently have found myself turning DSC completely off.

It seems that there is less sloppiness when switching gears or even downshifting. I don't know if this is just all mental but wondering if others have experienced similar, or just simply what are your experiences with DSC off v.s. Sport or the regular setting

zibby43

You must own a BMW too (DSC).

It's got to be mental. I mean, having the TC off will prevent the car from cutting power in aggressive acceleration scenarios.

Perhaps you're noticing the crisper shifting of S and S+?

On public roads, I primarily stick to ESP Sport. There are simply too many variables on the street. Unless you have had some quality driving school training, I wouldn't recommend going too crazy with ESP Off, especially in inclement weather conditions.

avery.whss

ESP off you're asking to smoke a pole ..look @ dads C63 :/

jcfay

Not to be too technical, but at least on my '14 C63 you can turn off ESP, but you can NEVER turn off traction control completely. When you go to sport mode or turn off ESP the system allows more wheel spin (which can improve grip in some scenarios), but TC is never completely disabled. At least this is what the manual states.

As far as driving feel is concerned, I haven't done nearly any driving with ESP off or in sport (I've been having enough fun so far with it on, but now I'm thinking I might wanna give it a try... ;-), but I can imagine that it would change feel since it's changing how the power is transmitted to the wheels. But then again, we all know how accurate butt dynos can be at sensing actual differences in performance.

Now I really wanna go do some burnouts...

g-f

Thanks for that! I was driving completely off in the snow and nailing it and I was wondering what was going on. I figured the system couldn't be completely turned off but I was actually worrying a bit that something was off with my car.

I usually drive with it off. But now that winter has kicked in, I leave it in sport if there is no snow on the ground in order not to lose studs on my studded hakka 8 winter tires. Excessive wheel spin is a bithc on studded tires. So in sport mode, wheelspin is reduced and it's easier on the tires/studs.

The sport mode is pretty good though, you can swing the back end quite a bit even with it on. During summer it's almost always off except in the rain where I use sport.

I don't use on except when cruising because my car doesn't allow to use the cruise control with it in sport/off modes.

I am a former F2000 racer and BMW instructor. Your mileage may vary.

zibby43

This guy ^^ = ESP Off allowed.

odonnks

If you hold the ESP button for a few seconds it completely disables traction control.

jcfay

Nope, read your manual, dude. Jeez. It couldn't be more explicit. Fine, I'll help:

"Characteristics when ESP® is deactivated

If ESP® is deactivated and one or more wheels
start to spin, the÷ESP® warning lamp in
the instrument cluster does not flash. In such
situations, ESP® will not stabilize the vehicle.

If you deactivate ESP®:
ESP® no longer improves driving stability.
engine torque is restricted to a limited
degree and the drive wheels are able to
spin.
The spinning of the wheels results in a
cutting action for better traction on loose
surfaces.
traction control is still activated.
PRE-SAFE® is no longer available, nor is it
activated if you brake firmly and ESP®
intervenes.
PRE-SAFE® Brake is no longer available, it
is also not activated if you brake firmly and
ESP® intervenes.
ESP® still provides support when you
brake."

It's amazing what you can actually find in a book when you bother to look. Did you think I was just making it up?

odonnks

Jcfay is correct.

If you want to disable all electronic babysitters go into the service menu and enable the Dyno Mode.

Be aware, this disables all traction and stability control along with ABS. It will be like driving an old school muscle car. No automated driver assists, its all in the hands of the person behind the wheel.

Clark Kent

For street driving I prefer to turn ESP off but only on warm dry days. Any slickness to the streets at all and I keep it on, or on Sport. At the track, it is a must to turn it off. Proper track driving drives the ESP nuts. With ESP constantly trying to reign you in the brakes can get too hot and you'll have brake fade quicker.

QWKSNKE

Apparently this is different between years. In my 2008, ESP off disables traction control completely (if memory serves me correctly, this also stated in my manual)

avery.whss

+1

my MB SA has even told me this exactly pretty much but it's still sketchy to drive with ESP OFF in the wet etc

dyno mode disables everything though

jcfay

Thanks, then I apologize for the snarky tone. You sure about this? If so, enjoy the extra burnout and oversteer potential. Wonder when they made the change to keep TC on regardless? And I wonder how much of it is still on? It seems totally contradictory that ESP is off, which obviously allows some wheel spin, but TC still reins it in. Anyone know what the difference is driving with ESP off versus in dyno mode? Is it just an under/oversteer bonanza?

EDIT: just checked the '08 manual. Nope, it's still on then too. FYI all MB manuals are available free online (just found this out...). Looks like MB thinks we'd all nuke ourselves if TC was able to be turned completely off...
Here's the link FYI: http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/servic...owners_manuals

QWKSNKE

Really? I have not got into my manual yet but that is really interesting since I recently left 50+ feet black marks.

QWKSNKE

See attached. Page 66 in the 08 manual states ' loss of system support traction control'

jcfay

That's odd. Are you outside of the US? Here's the link to the '08 C class manual from MB, and that text ain't in there... See page 64 it contradicts what your manual states. Odd. I'm just wondering how we can get so damn much wheel spin with "traction control" still on anyways...

http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA...350sport_1.pdf

QWKSNKE

Yes, I am in the US.
If you pay attention, the manual in the link you provided does not cover the C63. It only covers the models below

QWKSNKE

Lool. My manual also states that all C63's in 2008 came with LSD but the experts here say that it didn't. I do know that my car will light up both rears with ESP off though.

jcfay

Gotcha. My '14 manual covers all C classes, including the C63. Guess you got a separate 63 specific manual.

QWKSNKE

Mine does too. The manual you posted does not. No where on page 2 of your link states C63. Mine does

jcfay

Weird. Enjoy your burnouts.

QWKSNKE

..........

Diabolis

Sorry - but you're completely wrong on this one. If you're lighting up the tires (or the TC engages if enabled), you are getting on the throttle much too rapidly. You need to work on being smooth instead of using the throttle like a binary on/off switch. The fastest lap times are when neither the ABS nor the TC engage and you actually use 100% of the available traction. That is, unless you're trying to drift on purpose - which I think may be the case if I correctly rememeber one of your earlier posts.

Clark Kent

You do not recall correctly. And you are totally oblivious as to how I apply the throttle on exit since you are not ever in my car with me to witness such. I do not light up my tires nor do I drift. As in the other thread you referred to, you state as fact assumptions that you have conjoured up in your own mind without any basis of firsthand knowledge.

I feel it is safe to say that us forum drivers who track our cars DO NOT run perfect laps every single lap. I enjoy the pursuit of perfection in every sport that I play. I have not achieved it yet in any of them. During my pursuit I will experiment with the fine tuning of turn in point, entrance speed, line, exit speed, and application of throttle. I push my limits with how soon and how much throttle to apply during exit.

Yet I see the ESP reigning me in even when there is no rear tire spin and/or front tire slippage. I see the ESP reigning me in when I feel I am driving ~80% as hard as my best lap times with ESP off. Even with my deviations from perfection, I can drive my car harder, with faster lap times, with ESP off - and with much less brake fade.

You speak of the theoretical perfect lap yet how many of us (you included) run a perfect lap EVERY lap? Hence ESP is going to be activated (if kept on) and you are driving hard and pushing your limits. That is my experience and that is the nature of my earlier post. My brakes got too hot with the ESP trying to reign me in even though I new I could drive that track harder with it off.

So I shared this experience in my earlier (summarized) post. It is neither right nor wrong. It is just what I have seen.

jcfay

I have a feeling that TC and/or ESP may be active when at limits far below what a legit race driver would utilize. Yes, not talking about drifting here but some slight over/understeer is going to occur as the norm and is acceptable. But if TC/ESP are active then, fighting what is acceptable and technical race driving, then they will try and fight those behaviors and apply the brakes. I think this was the point. It would be interesting to see data on how TC/ESP is applied in order to better judge their impact, but I trust people's experience with them on/off since I'm not a track guy myself.