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I opted for ROW airboxes ($338) and AFE pro dry s filters. ROW boxes already have charcoal delete (and better air flow) and are basically a drop in replacement.
Pulling the stock charcoal filters seems to be hit or miss in terms of causing airflow/seating issues that trigger a CEL.
I opted for ROW airboxes ($338) and AFE pro dry s filters. ROW boxes already have charcoal delete (and better air flow) and are basically a drop in replacement.
Pulling the stock charcoal filters seems to be hit or miss in terms of causing airflow/seating issues that trigger a CEL.
That looks like it's what I read, so better go with the ROW boxes.
Where did you get it for $338?? Are you in Canada??
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Unless you have other modifications on the C63, the charcoal filter removal or replacement of the airbox will make no difference. It's a waste of $600 that you can spend on something else instead.
Replacing a filter element that can flow, say, 10L per second with one that can flow 12L per second on an engine that at WOT only requires 6L per second will not give you any additional power. And, seeing as the increased flow comes not from a larger size filter element but rather a less dense one, the ONLY thing you'll accomplish by changing it is to ingest more coarse dust in your engine and possibly get less power because you have upset the airflow in the aribox. Good airboxes are designed as Helmholtz resonators (similar to a loudspeaker / woofer enclosure) to provide maximum undisturbed airflow at certain frequencies, and by changing only the filter element you are just as likely to create a partial vacuum at ceartin RPMs and thus supply less air to the engine, not more.
Unless you have headers and a custom tune, leave the filters alone. The airboxes are designed for proper flow with the OEM filters, so changing the filters will only bugger up the airfow and rob you of power. Changing the airbox to the Euro spec one is less likely to have any advese effects as the box is designed to work with only one filter element, but again, from an objective standpoint, why would you do it? The NA box with the charcoals can certainly flow more than enough air for the engine at WOT.
I plan to upgrage exhaust system after changing the air boxes and filters. But I will keep the original 507 ECU.
Do you have an idea why US (and Canada?) models have charcoal filters in the air boxes while rest of the world don't have?
Originally Posted by Diabolis
Unless you have other modifications on the C63, the charcoal filter removal or replacement of the airbox will make no difference. It's a waste of $600 that you can spend on something else instead.
Replacing a filter element that can flow, say, 10L per second with one that can flow 12L per second on an engine that at WOT only requires 6L per second will not give you any additional power. And, seeing as the increased flow comes not from a larger size filter element but rather a less dense one, the ONLY thing you'll accomplish by changing it is to ingest more coarse dust in your engine and possibly get less power because you have upset the airflow in the aribox. Good airboxes are designed as Helmholtz resonators (similar to a loudspeaker / woofer enclosure) to provide maximum undisturbed airflow at certain frequencies, and by changing only the filter element you are just as likely to create a partial vacuum at ceartin RPMs and thus supply less air to the engine, not more.
Unless you have headers and a custom tune, leave the filters alone. The airboxes are designed for proper flow with the OEM filters, so changing the filters will only bugger up the airfow and rob you of power. Changing the airbox to the Euro spec one is less likely to have any advese effects as the box is designed to work with only one filter element, but again, from an objective standpoint, why would you do it? The NA box with the charcoals can certainly flow more than enough air for the engine at WOT.
How much power do you get increased with ROW airboxes and new filters? I read somewhere it's about 10-20HP?
We didn't do a before/after dyno (strapping in takes a lot of time!), so it's hard for me to say. It's not a noticeable difference in the slightest. Filters will be the main game changer.
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Originally Posted by edisonwu
I plan to upgrage exhaust system after changing the air boxes and filters. But I will keep the original 507 ECU.
Do you have an idea why US (and Canada?) models have charcoal filters in the air boxes while rest of the world don't have?
The charcoals were put in for emission reasons to absorb any residual vapors and/or gasses from the intake manifold. The NA airbox is tuned to work with these in place. They are not very restricitve, but by removing them without changing the airbox you will disturb the air flow and pressurization in the airbox which will ultimately net you less power. You don't want low pressure in the airbox when a cyinder is trying to draw in air, and this is exactly what happens when the two are not optimized to work with each other.
Anyone suggesting that the filters alone are worth 15 or more hp is high on the fumes they've been inhaling as a result of the charcoal filter removal. At best, with a Euro airbox, you may be able to get 1.5 hp on a good day. On a 500 hp car, that's about the difference between an air filter that has one dead fly caught on it vs. one that has two dead flies, or whether the person that filled up their car before you at the same gas pump used regular or super and thus whether the first 250 mL of gas that come out of the hose are going to be 87 or 91 octane.
I could claim that my AMG door pins gave me a 5 hp gain and even back it up with a dyno reading, but I'll leave it up to you to determine the validity of that statement.
If you start to tinker with the rest of the engine (i.e. intake, camshaft lift and/or duration, exhaust, etc.) then a different airbox may indeed produce significant gains provided that you are then able to custom-tune the car for the particualr modifications, but on a motor that is otherwise unchanged, any reported gains are wishful thinking. The engine is not able to ingest more air even with the filters completley removed (i.e. no filter airflow restriction) and in fact can produce less power since the removal of the filters changes the compliance of the airbox, which can create lower pressure in it when you need higher pressure to aid in air ingestion during the intake cycle. You can easily test it yourself - on a clear day with no dust in the air, take out the filters completely for a bit and see what you get.
I will keep the 507 stock for now. Thanks for the info. it's very helpful indeed.
Originally Posted by Diabolis
The charcoals were put in for emission reasons to absorb any residual vapors and/or gasses from the intake manifold. The NA airbox is tuned to work with these in place. They are not very restricitve, but by removing them without changing the airbox you will disturb the air flow and pressurization in the airbox which will ultimately net you less power. You don't want low pressure in the airbox when a cyinder is trying to draw in air, and this is exactly what happens when the two are not optimized to work with each other.
Anyone suggesting that the filters alone are worth 15 or more hp is high on the fumes they've been inhaling as a result of the charcoal filter removal. At best, with a Euro airbox, you may be able to get 1.5 hp on a good day. On a 500 hp car, that's about the difference between an air filter that has one dead fly caught on it vs. one that has two dead flies, or whether the person that filled up their car before you at the same gas pump used regular or super and thus whether the first 250 mL of gas that come out of the hose are going to be 87 or 91 octane.
I could claim that my AMG door pins gave me a 5 hp gain and even back it up with a dyno reading, but I'll leave it up to you to determine the validity of that statement.
If you start to tinker with the rest of the engine (i.e. intake, camshaft lift and/or duration, exhaust, etc.) then a different airbox may indeed produce significant gains provided that you are then able to custom-tune the car for the particualr modifications, but on a motor that is otherwise unchanged, any reported gains are wishful thinking. The engine is not able to ingest more air even with the filters completley removed (i.e. no filter airflow restriction) and in fact can produce less power since the removal of the filters changes the compliance of the airbox, which can create lower pressure in it when you need higher pressure to aid in air ingestion during the intake cycle. You can easily test it yourself - on a clear day with no dust in the air, take out the filters completely for a bit and see what you get.
01-02-2015, 05:18 PM
