BLKROKT

Was down at NJMP Lightning this morning. Weather cleared just in time. It was dry and in the low 80's, and not a lot of cars showed up. Perfect for some clean laps.

Unfortunately my day was cut short by a couple of problems. Only got a session in, 8 laps. First of all, car ran nice and cool thanks to the blockoff plate (https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...your-cool.html). Temps in M never went above 250, and we ran NJMP Lightning which is a fast track.

Problem #1: Car was down on power after 5 laps at full speed. Felt like timing was being pulled, or like traction control was coming on (was in Sport), very strange behavior. No limp mode. Exiting corners or coming on to the straights, there would be no power initially, then when I got higher in the RPM range the car would 'surge' and I'd have intermittent full power. Partial throttle I had more power than mashing the pedal. Car just felt totally flat. Back in the pits tried revving the engine a bit and it wouldn't rev easily - sounded like the exhaust was very muffled, almost sounded like pre-headers again. Shut the car down, restarted, and the car revved fine and sounded normal. Pulled the codes and found this:


Ugh. So cylinder #6 looks like there's a problem. No smoke. 0W-40 M1 oil looks good (only a couple hundred miles and 2 track days on the last change), and very little in the catch can. About 5k miles on Brisk plugs (installed pre headers though). New O2s. Also was running 100 unleaded race gas.


Problem #2: Rear brakes are gone. To me and my buddy, it looks like the F/R bias is off. I put on brand new Porterfields before my last track day. This would have been the 3rd day. The front brakes probably have about half left. The rears are basically completely gone, and the backing plate is bowed or curved inwards. It's a bit of a headscratcher as I would have assumed that the car would eat the fronts far faster than the rear. Has anyone else experienced this on track?


After the first session, I decided to be smart for once and cut my losses and call it a day. Drove the car (gently) 2hrs back to the city and she ran just fine. Low temps, no obvious misfiring. When I parked, shut it down for a couple min to check the codes again (P0300 and the unknown P374a were back), and restarted, it ran very rough at idle. Obvious misfire. Then it seemed to clear up after about 10sec and settled down. Also it seems that my lifter tick is louder. Noticeably. Could be something else? Could a bad cam position sensor be doing this?

Anyone have any thoughts on the above I'd love to hear, thanks

cornerjunkie

I have absolutely no clue if this is relevant, but there was a time when I was at the Glen for the first time in my e46 M3 and was the first time at the track with R-comps. I decided to keep traction control on for the first few sessions. On brand new PFC pads, I ate through the rears completely by the 3rd session. Traction control kicking in all the time was the cause. Problem #2 sounds a lot like my experience. Traction control would sometime engage even without the light flickering. Needless to say, that was the last time I ran TC in the dry.

BLKROKT

Interesting thanks! Was surprised to see so much rear wear, it's extreme compared to the fronts. It was a little wet in the beginning, so I had TC fully on. It was annoyingly kicking in every corner, so after the 2nd lap I switched to Sport. Didn't notice the light illuminate after that, but it def saved me in the bowl once. At The Glen a few weeks ago, it was my first time there and the first time tracking this car, so I left it in Sport the whole time. Duh. Will try going to 'death mode' next trackday and see if it helps. Didn't think of that, good looking out.

Merc63

Your back pads are toast because you are driving around the track with ESP on and it's hitting the rear brakes to stop wheel spin. This is probably why you feel you're losing power, esp is coming on.

Turn that **** off.

BLKROKT

Yeah I'm retarded I know.
But what about the codes and misfire?
The power loss was not ESP kicking in. This was something much different.

Merc63

Maybe that fuel u got is crap?

Try normal fuel. Pull the plugs and see how they look.

Bigtickets

^^^^^^^

Agreed. Run regular (premium) fuel and see what happens.

BLKROKT

Yeah I filled it with 100 unleaded at the track. Hard for me to believe that would be bad, but once I'm out (what a waste of a tank of race gas!), I'll refill with the usual pump stuff and see what happens. Will let you know, thanks.

I'm leaning towards injectors because of the racket coming from my intake manifold (aside from my lifter tap). Will be swapping out plugs once they get here from Weistec, and swapping in my old MAFs as well.

Other than that, could be a valve inside the intake manifold, coils, or cam sensors. Will try each one at a time. Car starts and runs generally fine, with the exception of the obvious misfire even at idle. I'm optimistic it's nothing big... famous last words.

dchl21

off as in put in esp-sport ? or esp-off ?


wouldn't it be dangerous to smash the car by accident with esp-off easily ?





thanks

cornerjunkie

That's one of the gambles of track events. ESP really prohibits fast lap times and like the OP, will cause wear once you have surpassed the capabilities of the TC.

Wobble64

Well, kinda, sorta..... I agree ESP full on will slow you down a lot, especially on crests where the car is light, or long sweeping curves. Therefore I usually drive with ESP in SPORT mode. I sometimes turn it off completely for practice, but not usually. In SPORT mode it allows the rear wheels to spin, and allows a significant drift angle before resorting to corner braking to help you catch the car - way more drift angle than you want if you are trying to be fast. Also, ABS is still functioning preventing you to lock up wheels.

In SPORT mode I did not experience excessive rear brake wear as reported by the OP. I strongly suspect there is something else going on.

For example, Blkrkt was mentioning his pads were too soft at high temp and were wearing fast. Could it be that they were smearing, maybe fouled up the front rotors in the process and as a result most of the braking really happened in the back, whenever the fronts were getting hot? That way you can war the rears quickly.

Merc63

If you can't control your car with ESP off on a race track, you have no business on the track in the first place.

You shouldn't be pushing it 100% with your street car at the track. Control, braking, cornering, etc should be your priority. Can't run a car with nanny controls kicking in every apex.

cheesy

I would check your ignition coils , I had the same code and misfire this year , turns out the coils were recalled here in Canada

dchl21

ok there super star

Merc63

What do you do if you buy dodge viper? Oh my god no ESP how will I comtrol this thing!! The computer won't save me cause I can't drive.

Don't take your car to the track if you can't afford to replace it when you crash. This is why serious track guys have track cars...

Wobble64

Now I am starting to wonder:

Am I allowed to use my paddle shifters on the track? Just saying - with the Dodge Viper not having any paddle shifters and all......

cornerjunkie

6MT or GTFO!!!

Jasonoff

Oh really? Interesting, you wouldn't happen to have the recall ID from your service doc would you?

dchl21

the way you talk is crazy...its like you are angry with life.. lol . I was just asking a simple question... im not a serious track guy ... but I would like to take my c63 to the track once a while if that's ok with you.

Merc63

Lol sorry sir... You should learn to drive your car with ESP off before hitting the track. ESP isn't a guardian angel, you can still crash with it on.

How do you ever expect to learn to control a car with ESP applying the brakes when you get the back end out a bit?


It's like riding a bike with training wheels on your entire life... Maybe that's why I came off like that.. Sounds dumb to me to even ask.

dchl21

been driving for quiet sometime... not a young kid. ive heard esp-off is pretty bad on the c63. like you said control, braking, cornering is my priority, but you never know when the competition arrives you just go off.. was just simply wondering if esp-sport will be the extra help. I for sure don't want to eat thru my rear pads nor crash my nice to me car.


its ok. im sure a lot of things sounds dumb to you.

BLKROKT

I agree that I need to learn how to drive fast on a track with ESP completely off. There's no doubt it's slowing me down - both time-wise and learning-wise.

However rear brake pads are less expensive than repairing armco damage

Driving on a track - with turns not just in a straight line - is massively different than messing around on the street or on a twisty road. I prefer Sport mode until I have a few more trackdays under my belt.

zcct04

Macho63: Perhaps you were born with amazing driving skills, but that's something the rest of us mere mortals have to learn on our own. Leaving your ESP on when you first start driving on tracks is a great way to do that learning with a bit of a safety net. Spend some time getting a grip on apexes, understanding brake zones, practicing the fast line around a track and getting comfortable with the speed. It's not just your car at risk - your *** is on the line too. It's a wise student who works first to get the basics down and graduates to the SPORT or OFF settings once he starts looking for some speed.

What he said x2

Jasonoff

Some "owners" just have the attitude that if you drive with ESP off you're an idiot. They can't fathom the idea their absolute limit doesn't even come close to someone else's comfort zone.

Car control is like riding a bike for people with experience. It's a natural preventive measure you can't really explain. Metaphorically, before the bike starts to tip to either side you've already corrected it. If you wait until it's already falling over, it's likely too late to react to the physics.

ESP isn't going to defy physics. Driving way past your limit with the nannies there to "protect" you won't help you improve nearly as fast if you left them off and experienced the grip limit at slower speeds. Slow increments within your comfort level will be more successful. You won't be "faster" in that transition but you will be "better" which will = faster in the long run.

QWKSNKE

Agree completely!