Brake Pads
09-18-2015, 11:20 PM
#1
Super Member
Thread Starter
Brake Pads
What are most people using?
Daily driver with some spirited driving through some twisties.
I've always run something equivalent to a Hawk HPS/DS2500/APF404. Anything like that available for the C63?
Not too interested in the EBC stuff, haven't had good experiences with them. Dust not a huge issue, preferably lower, but I'll live with it if it's better stopping.
No noise though.
Daily driver with some spirited driving through some twisties.
I've always run something equivalent to a Hawk HPS/DS2500/APF404. Anything like that available for the C63?
Not too interested in the EBC stuff, haven't had good experiences with them. Dust not a huge issue, preferably lower, but I'll live with it if it's better stopping.
No noise though.
09-19-2015, 10:59 AM
#2
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2014 E350 also restored: 1969 Camaro convertible SS 1957 Chevy Belair 2dr hardtop
When I used to do brakes I would always buy the medium priced pads. Not the cheap one and not the expensive ones and I never had a problem
09-19-2015, 11:19 AM
#3
MBWorld Fanatic!
I think most people choose Porterfield R4S pads for street driving. Low dust and none of that squeaking like the stock pads.
09-19-2015, 11:40 AM
#4
Super Member
09-19-2015, 11:46 AM
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
RacingBrake has a whole portfolio of suitable pads from street focus to track pads. They are a perfect fit and have the notch for the wear sensor.
http://www.racingbrake.com/SearchRes...nsive_Search=Y
Alternatively, any pad made for the CTS-V (e.g. 2010) also fits, but minus the wear sensor notch. Hawk, Pagid, Performance Friction...... you can just tie the sensor off to the side and check the pad every couple thousand miles by looking through the spokes of the rim.
http://www.racingbrake.com/SearchRes...nsive_Search=Y
Alternatively, any pad made for the CTS-V (e.g. 2010) also fits, but minus the wear sensor notch. Hawk, Pagid, Performance Friction...... you can just tie the sensor off to the side and check the pad every couple thousand miles by looking through the spokes of the rim.
Last edited by Wobble64; 09-19-2015 at 06:18 PM.
09-19-2015, 05:36 PM
#6
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W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
What are most people using?
Daily driver with some spirited driving through some twisties.
I've always run something equivalent to a Hawk HPS/DS2500/APF404. Anything like that available for the C63?
Not too interested in the EBC stuff, haven't had good experiences with them. Dust not a huge issue, preferably lower, but I'll live with it if it's better stopping.
No noise though.
Daily driver with some spirited driving through some twisties.
I've always run something equivalent to a Hawk HPS/DS2500/APF404. Anything like that available for the C63?
Not too interested in the EBC stuff, haven't had good experiences with them. Dust not a huge issue, preferably lower, but I'll live with it if it's better stopping.
No noise though.
Like Wobble mentioned, RB makes some decent pads, so if Hawk HPS is your reference, you probably want to get their ET500 compoud.
The Hawk HP+ is more aggressive and suited to light track use, but they do squeal like stuck pigs and I wouldn't recommend them for street driving only and in colder climates.
Unless you're specifically looking for a track pad, the OEM C63 pads are hard to beat with aftermarket alternatives for street use no matter how aggressive your driving.
09-19-2015, 06:22 PM
#7
MBWorld Fanatic!
Come to think of it, Diabolis is completely correct. The OEM pads are great allround pads for street and moderate track driving. They are quality Brembo pads and can be had for something in the low 200$ range when you buy them via mail order, for instance at oediscountparts.com
When I used them at the track they were getting too hot and started to wear very fast. They were still working fine though.
Overall not a bad choice unless someone is looking for minimum brake dust. For that they are not good.
When I used them at the track they were getting too hot and started to wear very fast. They were still working fine though.
Overall not a bad choice unless someone is looking for minimum brake dust. For that they are not good.
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09-20-2015, 03:03 AM
#8
Super Member
Thread Starter
Fair enough. I've just never run with the OEM Brake Pads on any car. Always upgraded to a Hawk or something.
Can anybody comment on whether the Porterfield R4S Pads make any noise? I guess they must be comparable to a Hawk HPS or something along those likes? Or the ET500?
Can anybody comment on whether the Porterfield R4S Pads make any noise? I guess they must be comparable to a Hawk HPS or something along those likes? Or the ET500?
09-20-2015, 11:36 AM
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
In conversations like these I always wonder what the real objective of the choice is.
1. Try something new/be different from stock?
2. Fix a performance issue (if so, what kind)
3. Select a product that is designed for a different than the 'normal' use, like for hard tracking, or to single variably optimize brake dust even if that means lower brake performance.
Just getting clear on that will help a great deal to focus the thread. My suggestions would vary a lot depending on the 'problem definition'.
For example:
I think the OEM pads are great value and great performance for typical use.
Hard-core Tracking - go Hawk DTC60 or 70, or Pagid 8081
Minimize dust: Maybe RacingBrake ET500
Just be different: Lots of choices - Porterfield, RacingBrake, Hawk and many more.
1. Try something new/be different from stock?
2. Fix a performance issue (if so, what kind)
3. Select a product that is designed for a different than the 'normal' use, like for hard tracking, or to single variably optimize brake dust even if that means lower brake performance.
Just getting clear on that will help a great deal to focus the thread. My suggestions would vary a lot depending on the 'problem definition'.
For example:
I think the OEM pads are great value and great performance for typical use.
Hard-core Tracking - go Hawk DTC60 or 70, or Pagid 8081
Minimize dust: Maybe RacingBrake ET500
Just be different: Lots of choices - Porterfield, RacingBrake, Hawk and many more.
09-20-2015, 12:00 PM
#11
Super Member
Thread Starter
In conversations like these I always wonder what the real objective of the choice is.
1. Try something new/be different from stock?
2. Fix a performance issue (if so, what kind)
3. Select a product that is designed for a different than the 'normal' use, like for hard tracking, or to single variably optimize brake dust even if that means lower brake performance.
Just getting clear on that will help a great deal to focus the thread. My suggestions would vary a lot depending on the 'problem definition'.
For example:
I think the OEM pads are great value and great performance for typical use.
Hard-core Tracking - go Hawk DTC60 or 70, or Pagid 8081
Minimize dust: Maybe RacingBrake ET500
Just be different: Lots of choices - Porterfield, RacingBrake, Hawk and many more.
1. Try something new/be different from stock?
2. Fix a performance issue (if so, what kind)
3. Select a product that is designed for a different than the 'normal' use, like for hard tracking, or to single variably optimize brake dust even if that means lower brake performance.
Just getting clear on that will help a great deal to focus the thread. My suggestions would vary a lot depending on the 'problem definition'.
For example:
I think the OEM pads are great value and great performance for typical use.
Hard-core Tracking - go Hawk DTC60 or 70, or Pagid 8081
Minimize dust: Maybe RacingBrake ET500
Just be different: Lots of choices - Porterfield, RacingBrake, Hawk and many more.
Mainly because I usually find OEM Pads are the same price as the typical Hawks/Porterfields/RacingBrakes, no? So, why not try and get an upgrade if I have to spend the money anyways?
09-20-2015, 12:28 PM
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
OEM pads are 232$ at oediscountparts.com, free shipping. Others I have seen for 299 - 660, depending on what type, with the high end being Pagid race pads.
And do you get better performance? Like what - better stopping power, life expectancy? Not sure. I have tried several and have not found anything better than OEM for street use across a wide variety of conditions. Given their price I consider them best value out there. Don't forget, the OEM pads are not some no name pads like Centric. They are Brembos.
I need track pads for when I am on a race track - the temperatures I get there are too high for the stock pads. But other than that? I struggle to see a benefit other than trying something new.
But by all means try something and report back!
And do you get better performance? Like what - better stopping power, life expectancy? Not sure. I have tried several and have not found anything better than OEM for street use across a wide variety of conditions. Given their price I consider them best value out there. Don't forget, the OEM pads are not some no name pads like Centric. They are Brembos.
I need track pads for when I am on a race track - the temperatures I get there are too high for the stock pads. But other than that? I struggle to see a benefit other than trying something new.
But by all means try something and report back!
09-20-2015, 06:00 PM
#14
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Valuable and correct input from everyone.
As a general rule of thumb, the more track-friendly a pad can take the more unsuitable it is as a street pad. At the track you want pads that offer the best friction when hot, allow for proper brake pressure modulation at much higher temperatures than what you'd encounter on the street and where dust, noise, thermal conductivity and pad / rotor wear are at best secondary condsiderations. On the street on the other hand you want brakes that will stop and offer more initial bite when they're cold (by cold I don't necessarily mean -35C - I mean work at temperatures below 500-600C, which is roughly how hot brakes get at the track - and won't squeal or eat your rotors in 3000km.
On my dedicated track car I now run two different Pagid compounds (and I used to run Hawk DTC70 pads on it at one point in time as well), but just holding it stopped on an incline or gently getting the car on and off the trailer requires about four times the amount of pedal pressure as it would on street pads. Both the pads and the rotors last me approximately a season, so maybe 2500-3000km (unless the rotors crack first which happened twice with the Hawks - the Pagids seem to be a bit more heat conductive so the rotors get less heat-soak), at which time I also need to completely rebuild the brake calipers.
A couple of weeks ago I tracked my C63 (with R-comps) and the OEM brakes withstood the punishment *extremely* well. Only during a VERY long session - well over an hour - did they ever start to slightly fade, and stayed that way for the remainder of the session (in other words, did not progressively get worse and worse - they only required a bit more pressure for the next 20-30 minutes until I pitted). These are the same pads that I drive on in our snowy Canadian winters at -35C, so when it comes to an all-around great pad, they would be extremely hard to beat. And, if I didn't manage to completely destroy them on the hottest day of the year around Mosport on R-comps in 300+ km, you most certainly won't do it with spirited street driving. In other words, there is no need to look at anything but OEM pads for anythign that you would subject them to.
As a general rule of thumb, the more track-friendly a pad can take the more unsuitable it is as a street pad. At the track you want pads that offer the best friction when hot, allow for proper brake pressure modulation at much higher temperatures than what you'd encounter on the street and where dust, noise, thermal conductivity and pad / rotor wear are at best secondary condsiderations. On the street on the other hand you want brakes that will stop and offer more initial bite when they're cold (by cold I don't necessarily mean -35C - I mean work at temperatures below 500-600C, which is roughly how hot brakes get at the track - and won't squeal or eat your rotors in 3000km.
On my dedicated track car I now run two different Pagid compounds (and I used to run Hawk DTC70 pads on it at one point in time as well), but just holding it stopped on an incline or gently getting the car on and off the trailer requires about four times the amount of pedal pressure as it would on street pads. Both the pads and the rotors last me approximately a season, so maybe 2500-3000km (unless the rotors crack first which happened twice with the Hawks - the Pagids seem to be a bit more heat conductive so the rotors get less heat-soak), at which time I also need to completely rebuild the brake calipers.
A couple of weeks ago I tracked my C63 (with R-comps) and the OEM brakes withstood the punishment *extremely* well. Only during a VERY long session - well over an hour - did they ever start to slightly fade, and stayed that way for the remainder of the session (in other words, did not progressively get worse and worse - they only required a bit more pressure for the next 20-30 minutes until I pitted). These are the same pads that I drive on in our snowy Canadian winters at -35C, so when it comes to an all-around great pad, they would be extremely hard to beat. And, if I didn't manage to completely destroy them on the hottest day of the year around Mosport on R-comps in 300+ km, you most certainly won't do it with spirited street driving. In other words, there is no need to look at anything but OEM pads for anythign that you would subject them to.
09-21-2015, 12:07 PM
#15
Super Member
Thread Starter
OEM pads are 232$ at oediscountparts.com, free shipping. Others I have seen for 299 - 660, depending on what type, with the high end being Pagid race pads.
And do you get better performance? Like what - better stopping power, life expectancy? Not sure. I have tried several and have not found anything better than OEM for street use across a wide variety of conditions. Given their price I consider them best value out there. Don't forget, the OEM pads are not some no name pads like Centric. They are Brembos.
I need track pads for when I am on a race track - the temperatures I get there are too high for the stock pads. But other than that? I struggle to see a benefit other than trying something new.
But by all means try something and report back!
And do you get better performance? Like what - better stopping power, life expectancy? Not sure. I have tried several and have not found anything better than OEM for street use across a wide variety of conditions. Given their price I consider them best value out there. Don't forget, the OEM pads are not some no name pads like Centric. They are Brembos.
I need track pads for when I am on a race track - the temperatures I get there are too high for the stock pads. But other than that? I struggle to see a benefit other than trying something new.
But by all means try something and report back!
Valuable and correct input from everyone.
As a general rule of thumb, the more track-friendly a pad can take the more unsuitable it is as a street pad. At the track you want pads that offer the best friction when hot, allow for proper brake pressure modulation at much higher temperatures than what you'd encounter on the street and where dust, noise, thermal conductivity and pad / rotor wear are at best secondary condsiderations. On the street on the other hand you want brakes that will stop and offer more initial bite when they're cold (by cold I don't necessarily mean -35C - I mean work at temperatures below 500-600C, which is roughly how hot brakes get at the track - and won't squeal or eat your rotors in 3000km.
On my dedicated track car I now run two different Pagid compounds (and I used to run Hawk DTC70 pads on it at one point in time as well), but just holding it stopped on an incline or gently getting the car on and off the trailer requires about four times the amount of pedal pressure as it would on street pads. Both the pads and the rotors last me approximately a season, so maybe 2500-3000km (unless the rotors crack first which happened twice with the Hawks - the Pagids seem to be a bit more heat conductive so the rotors get less heat-soak), at which time I also need to completely rebuild the brake calipers.
A couple of weeks ago I tracked my C63 (with R-comps) and the OEM brakes withstood the punishment *extremely* well. Only during a VERY long session - well over an hour - did they ever start to slightly fade, and stayed that way for the remainder of the session (in other words, did not progressively get worse and worse - they only required a bit more pressure for the next 20-30 minutes until I pitted). These are the same pads that I drive on in our snowy Canadian winters at -35C, so when it comes to an all-around great pad, they would be extremely hard to beat. And, if I didn't manage to completely destroy them on the hottest day of the year around Mosport on R-comps in 300+ km, you most certainly won't do it with spirited street driving. In other words, there is no need to look at anything but OEM pads for anythign that you would subject them to.
As a general rule of thumb, the more track-friendly a pad can take the more unsuitable it is as a street pad. At the track you want pads that offer the best friction when hot, allow for proper brake pressure modulation at much higher temperatures than what you'd encounter on the street and where dust, noise, thermal conductivity and pad / rotor wear are at best secondary condsiderations. On the street on the other hand you want brakes that will stop and offer more initial bite when they're cold (by cold I don't necessarily mean -35C - I mean work at temperatures below 500-600C, which is roughly how hot brakes get at the track - and won't squeal or eat your rotors in 3000km.
On my dedicated track car I now run two different Pagid compounds (and I used to run Hawk DTC70 pads on it at one point in time as well), but just holding it stopped on an incline or gently getting the car on and off the trailer requires about four times the amount of pedal pressure as it would on street pads. Both the pads and the rotors last me approximately a season, so maybe 2500-3000km (unless the rotors crack first which happened twice with the Hawks - the Pagids seem to be a bit more heat conductive so the rotors get less heat-soak), at which time I also need to completely rebuild the brake calipers.
A couple of weeks ago I tracked my C63 (with R-comps) and the OEM brakes withstood the punishment *extremely* well. Only during a VERY long session - well over an hour - did they ever start to slightly fade, and stayed that way for the remainder of the session (in other words, did not progressively get worse and worse - they only required a bit more pressure for the next 20-30 minutes until I pitted). These are the same pads that I drive on in our snowy Canadian winters at -35C, so when it comes to an all-around great pad, they would be extremely hard to beat. And, if I didn't manage to completely destroy them on the hottest day of the year around Mosport on R-comps in 300+ km, you most certainly won't do it with spirited street driving. In other words, there is no need to look at anything but OEM pads for anythign that you would subject them to.
Thanks for all the information everybody! I'll report my findings/what I decide on!
09-21-2015, 02:24 PM
#16
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W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
I had to look those up as I had never heard of them... if they are the W7s, they are designed for sustained high-temperature competition applications only - pro rally and endurance racing - in lightweight cars. In other words, they are about as unsuitable to the C63 and your application requirements (street driving) as they can get. In your car, they are an accident waiting to happen.
Take the car to an MB dealer and get them to put on an OEM set and flush your brake fluid (if you have those pads on, chances are the previous owner was both skimping on maintenance and had no clue what he was doing as no sane person would ever choose those pads for a C63). You'll be amazed at the difference.
09-21-2015, 03:42 PM
#17
MBWorld Fanatic!
I had the opportunity to try several different pads this year.
In a nutshell - Endless MX720 - Best overall performance / excellent track pad - Most $$ bar none the best pad I have ever used, but squeaky for the street (not suitable for street use)
OEM Pads - Best compromise of brake feel and quietness IMHO.
Hawk HPS - Great pad, I preferred the softer OEM compound, so Im using the OEM pads for mainly street use.
In a nutshell - Endless MX720 - Best overall performance / excellent track pad - Most $$ bar none the best pad I have ever used, but squeaky for the street (not suitable for street use)
OEM Pads - Best compromise of brake feel and quietness IMHO.
Hawk HPS - Great pad, I preferred the softer OEM compound, so Im using the OEM pads for mainly street use.
09-21-2015, 04:52 PM
#18
Former Vendor of MBWorld
ET500 is our default compound for street driving - Excellent modulation, quiet and very low dust which is what most MB owners prefer.
Please learn from this SL550 customer why RB ET500 pads make him happy:
Racing Brake makes me happy
If you are driving style is more aggressive (HPDE/AutoX), the XT910 compound can provide you more consistent brake torque at repeated high speed stopping w/o shorten the pad life.
Our next level up would be for light to medium track duty compound XT970 which some customer also use it on street provided you can put up with some squeaking.
Our full track compound would be XR70 which is not recommended for street driving.
Just remember there is no "good for all" compound available and it always involves some trade off - Just a matter of what matters you more.
RB rotors are made with alloys and heat-treated before machining so they are harder and stronger than OE or other aftermarket rotors. They will never grooved like you will see on OE rotors. So we recommend using semi-metallic pads (than ceramic nature) to enhance the total performance, so any of the brands mentioned are compatible with RB rotors.
For those who are interested in learning more about rotor metallurgy, please refer the following thread we presented to GT-R community:
Racing Brake Technology - A Discussion about the truth of components
This reply details how our rotors are tested on hardness:
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...20#entry810786
Please learn from this SL550 customer why RB ET500 pads make him happy:
Racing Brake makes me happy
If you are driving style is more aggressive (HPDE/AutoX), the XT910 compound can provide you more consistent brake torque at repeated high speed stopping w/o shorten the pad life.
Our next level up would be for light to medium track duty compound XT970 which some customer also use it on street provided you can put up with some squeaking.
Our full track compound would be XR70 which is not recommended for street driving.
Just remember there is no "good for all" compound available and it always involves some trade off - Just a matter of what matters you more.
RB rotors are made with alloys and heat-treated before machining so they are harder and stronger than OE or other aftermarket rotors. They will never grooved like you will see on OE rotors. So we recommend using semi-metallic pads (than ceramic nature) to enhance the total performance, so any of the brands mentioned are compatible with RB rotors.
For those who are interested in learning more about rotor metallurgy, please refer the following thread we presented to GT-R community:
Racing Brake Technology - A Discussion about the truth of components
This reply details how our rotors are tested on hardness:
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...20#entry810786
09-22-2015, 07:34 AM
#19
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2013 ML 350 Bluetec
What are most people using?
Daily driver with some spirited driving through some twisties.
I've always run something equivalent to a Hawk HPS/DS2500/APF404. Anything like that available for the C63?
Not too interested in the EBC stuff, haven't had good experiences with them. Dust not a huge issue, preferably lower, but I'll live with it if it's better stopping.
No noise though.
Daily driver with some spirited driving through some twisties.
I've always run something equivalent to a Hawk HPS/DS2500/APF404. Anything like that available for the C63?
Not too interested in the EBC stuff, haven't had good experiences with them. Dust not a huge issue, preferably lower, but I'll live with it if it's better stopping.
No noise though.
09-24-2015, 01:08 PM
#20
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1985 500SEC
We have a pretty wide selection of pads for your vehicle. Here is a link to a few options, if you have any questions or if i can be of any further assistance please don't hesitate to ask.
https://www.carpartsdiscount.com/cat...html?3594=2064
https://www.carpartsdiscount.com/cat...html?3594=2064
10-12-2016, 11:38 AM
#21
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2005 s600 , 2005 Cl600 , 2004 Sl600
If interested in some Pagid racing pads, I am the Parts Manager at TRG (The Racers Group) if you mention this forum I can help work a discount on some Racing pads. 707-935-3999
10-12-2016, 07:40 PM
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
Porterfield R4S. Low dust, low noise, very good performance and durability.
10-12-2016, 10:10 PM
#23
Super Member
Thread Starter
I ended up with Endless MX-72s if anybody's interested.
Great pads. A bit of noise, and the first initial bite after you start the car is kind of ****ty, but after a few stops, it's great.
When they're warm, there's also no noise. Dust wise...not the best, not the worst.
Great pads. A bit of noise, and the first initial bite after you start the car is kind of ****ty, but after a few stops, it's great.
When they're warm, there's also no noise. Dust wise...not the best, not the worst.
10-13-2016, 10:24 AM
#24
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Old thread resurrection, but here it goes for posterity.
I've also been running the Endless MX-72s for the past year, with some track use (and I did destroy the OEM MB pads after the second track day - they stank to high heaven and simply disintegrated). The MX-72s are great all-around pads - considerably better on the track than the OEM and they bite reasonably well when cold - but what became apparent after one full track day with them on is that the OEM rotors are too soft for higher-temperature aftermarket pads, and will both crack around the vent holes and severely warp even at well over 50% thickness.
No such issues if you don't track the car, but if you drive 40 minute stints like I do, it's going to happen. I placed an order last week and am waiting to receive my RB rotors which according to one of their reps are harder and built to withstand higher temperatures, but the OEM rotors WILL GET PREMATURELY KILLED with aftermarket pads. If you go with a more aggressive pad (and actually track the car), count on also changing the OEM rotors in short order as they aren't made to take the heat from a track pad.
I've also been running the Endless MX-72s for the past year, with some track use (and I did destroy the OEM MB pads after the second track day - they stank to high heaven and simply disintegrated). The MX-72s are great all-around pads - considerably better on the track than the OEM and they bite reasonably well when cold - but what became apparent after one full track day with them on is that the OEM rotors are too soft for higher-temperature aftermarket pads, and will both crack around the vent holes and severely warp even at well over 50% thickness.
No such issues if you don't track the car, but if you drive 40 minute stints like I do, it's going to happen. I placed an order last week and am waiting to receive my RB rotors which according to one of their reps are harder and built to withstand higher temperatures, but the OEM rotors WILL GET PREMATURELY KILLED with aftermarket pads. If you go with a more aggressive pad (and actually track the car), count on also changing the OEM rotors in short order as they aren't made to take the heat from a track pad.
10-13-2016, 12:09 PM
#25
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C63 AMG, P30
I too have Endless MX72 pads and have nothing but positive things to say about them.
Like Phil mentioned, the first bite can make a little bit of noise, but extremely subtle at its worst. After that, it's smooth sailing.
Like Diabolis mentioned, these things are HARD. Bedding them in is a process in itself...
I find that at cold temps, they still work quite well and when warm, they're killer. The dusting is another aspect that I feel is vastly superior to OE pads. It'll take 250 or so miles of city driving before your wheels look dirty as opposed to with OE pads, I'd see dust almost after 40 miles of city driving.
Like Phil mentioned, the first bite can make a little bit of noise, but extremely subtle at its worst. After that, it's smooth sailing.
Like Diabolis mentioned, these things are HARD. Bedding them in is a process in itself...
I find that at cold temps, they still work quite well and when warm, they're killer. The dusting is another aspect that I feel is vastly superior to OE pads. It'll take 250 or so miles of city driving before your wheels look dirty as opposed to with OE pads, I'd see dust almost after 40 miles of city driving.
