zcct04

EPA Proposal to Prohibit Conversion of Vehicles Into Racecars

This looks like it could be a death sentence, not only to the amateur racer community, but also to manufacturers who make after-market performance products. Congress doesn't vote on things like this - it's coming from the regulatory side - and EPA plans to finalize it by July.

https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2016...utmk=228407125

Let your rep & senator know what you think of this.

AMGonFire

Wow I hope this doesn't pass sounds like there would be no modifying of vehicles at all if this passes

PeterUbers

Ride or die

solekeeper

this is crazy ****. the aftermarket/tuning companies will die. and this will leave us to dealers, which im sure is very appealing to them. they will corner the market.

PaulE550

Well I suppose it was only a matter of time until the EPA decided to over-reach in the automotive area as well. Since the administration can't get their climate change agenda through Congress, they've opted to do everything via regulatory administrative law.Their excuse of the EPA saying according to their new interpretation of the 1970's Clean Air Act suddenly gives them the authority to essentially not only make it illegal to do most performance modifications to your own car, but also puts the whole automotive after market / performance tuning industry on notice that their days are numbered, would be laughable if this didn't have such a good chance of being enacted after the public comment period.

INS1GNIA

Yea, they are getting a little too carried away with what they think is "their" property.

Settthhh

Hopefully they'll be gone soon.

Wobble64

Guys, just to be clear: The EPA cannot issue regulations. They are also not overreaching - they are developing proposals to reduce the environmental impact of all sorts of things - that is their job. That is why they exist and why we pay for having them.
If anybody disagrees with their proposal (as I do in this case), the right way to deal with it is to try to influence the government not to issue a law that uses the EPA proposal as a base. And that can be done through letters to our representatives as well as to congress, etc.


Sending anything to the EPA is a waste of time. That is not how it works.

Jasonoff

It would tank the economy.

looney100

I agree! Why protect the environment? What good is it doing any of us?
And if this one goes bad, we can just get a new one.

looney100

The threat of going after manufacturers makes this scary. Without that provision, this would rarely be enforced. Tampering with emissions controls systems has been illegal for years, but it has stopped few from doing so.
Preventing the sale of the devices would kill things - even for us Canadians who don't even fall within the EPA's jurisdiction.
This will have virtually no impact on pollutant levels as this applies to such a tiny segment of the population.

Jasonoff

Although for Canada, but likely similar in the US.



23% for ALL of transportation so preventing race cars from being created sounds like a worth wile solution. It will kill millions of jobs BUT cut pollution by 0.002%.

Sounds like a WIN

Wobble64

As I tried to explain above, the EPA has no jurisdiction at all.

Wobble64

What does that chart show? % of what?

BLKROKT

I'm guessing Mt is millions of tons of CO2 emissions

Wobble64

Yes, maybe Millions of Tons, maybe CO2, and maybe it is the US - it does not say.


Regarding 'killing millions of jobs'. According to the US Department of Labor/Bureau of Labor Statistics, the entire US automotive industry had 921,000 employees in manufacturing, 1.98 million employees in parts retail and 1.27 million employees in automobile retailing in January 2016. In total about 4 million. Of those a small fraction only is associated with modding and racing. So the number of jobs affected by any prohibition to convert road vehicles to race cars, will be in the 10s of thousands.


The quality of public debate I already bad enough. Let's not add to that....

Jasonoff

My bad, the thread steered toward the pollution topic. I assumed the chart was obvious.

https://www.ec.gc.ca/ges-ghg/

http://www.greenfacts.org/glossary/mno/mass-units.htm
1 megatonne (Mt) =1 000 000 000 000 g

GHG = Green House Gasses = Carbon dioxide equivalent (CO2 eq)

Jasonoff

So what you're saying is, out of 318.9 million people ~10k of them work in the after market performance industry?

Fair play, it is only limited to converting normal cars into race cars. Let's assume that means full blown non road legal race cars. In those figures you quoted, how many "support" workers does it affect? Race track officials, owners, promotors, the list goes on.

All to help the environment so little that the potentially positive impact could be disregarded as margin of error.

AMGonFire

How can any of you guys be on this forum and think this is a good idea. Isn't this forum about modifying vehicles. This is a terrible idea.

AA717driver

Bureacratic overreach.

TC

Jasonoff

A tree hugger driving a C63 is like a fatty ordering a diet coke with their suppressed double big mac meal.

Wobble64

Jasonoff, thanks for clarifying this was about Canada and GHG (as opposed to CO2 and US)! :-)


Please do not assume that infusing facts into a debate is the same as stating a preference.


I did, by the way, not say I agreed with the proposed regulation. On the contrary, I actually said I was against it. However, I prefer not to spread misinformation, like millions of jobs are affected. Or the change in emissions will be 0.002%. The former does not pass a plausibility check and the latter seems to be speculation. Some here may take both as facts and then repeat those numbers as if they were facts.


But - there are way more effective ways to get a bigger positive impact on the environment. I assume we all agree there....

avery.whss

If this is for Canada, let it happen, Honestly Canada isn't even a country, it's a corporation ..a failing corporation that needs to die, so just let it die..don't waste your energy fighting for it because Canadians and Canada is a write off on the books.

Jasonoff

I guess my sarcasm went undetected I think we agree it will do more harm than good.

Considering I just live in the cooperation of Canada waiting for it to die so I can claim the write off on my taxes I've obviously just wasted everyones time here...

hyperion667

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that some people don't think they need a drivers license to drive a motor vehicle.......aside from conducting.....commerce...


this EPA thing blows my mind..........are they fascists?