mr747

HI Guys

Is anyone using meth on there cars here?

Curious to see your setups
I looking for some information ive tried seaching but with not much luck

I picked up my head this week after getting it cleaned as im adding ARP head bolts and some bits and pieces and they advised that my valves ARE JUST keeping up on my application with the stage 2 but now im adding a stage 3 and im a little worried with the extra heat and stuff

Tech heads maybe chime in here

Merc63

What do they mean the valves are just keeping up?? With what?

_AMG_

+1

mr747

With the heat of the blower

_AMG_

have you thought about going with a trunk ice tank?

mr747

I have already

_AMG_

Never dealt with meth injection, but one of my old friends had it on his 997 turbo and it really helped keep his air intake temps cooler.
Cant really say much else other then it does help with cooling.

Merc63

Meth injection seems like nitrous to me, not a fan.

If the valves were getting too hot, there would be failures and we haven't seen any failures, so I wouldn't worry about it.

No one sells after market valves anyways, unless you had a custom set made up. I just don't think it's an issue.

Have any pictures?

mr747

I dont have any pics

They said it was fine now but in the future it could be a problem
Im sure you are like me and dont like problems hence this post
I have seen pics of meth injection on weistec blowers but never heard first hand experience

The e55 guys run meth all the time just never hear stories from m156 owners

Yes you are right there are no after market valves avl i just changed all my valve stem seals while the head was off

ritalin

Meth is not like nitrous, aside from it burns cooler than fuel.
I have used meth on my 335 and it is widely used on many platforms.
I dont see a downside on this platform aside from integration. We need a tuner to step up and tune specifically for meth injection in order to reap the full benefit of the added octane.
Aem has some decent kits and most of the kits available on the market can be installed without a specific tune but aside from running cooler and potentially keeping the intake and valves clean like it does in most FI DI motors we wont be taking advantage of the performance aspect.
For you supercharged guys, it could be substantial.
Aem
Aquamist
Cooling mist
Snow performance
Just to name a few companies who offer reasonable kits.

On the m156 in sure a twin nozzle setup before the throttle bodies would be adequate but i would rather a tuner who works with meth often to make those decisions.

ritalin

It would be nice if weistec would work with someone and offer a kit...

Jasonoff

I ran the AEM kit on my SC'd track s2000 for cooling purposes only. It was a decent quality kit. I would vote against injection before the TBs though. I'd be concerned about uneven distribution into the chambers.

Is there any way to tap injectors into the intake runners of the blower?

ritalin

Even better. I know a lot of corvette guys run meth injection on blower cars. Im sure they are directly taping the manifold/blower at each runner like a direct port nitrous setup.
I'll see if i can find any info.

Merc63

How long does meth last? Just something more to fill up and fiddle with. Would it be kicking in at a certain RPM? I daily drive, don't need to be filling up a meth bottle every day, I like my power there and when I want it, not needing to turn a bottle on.

mr747, valves look good from there, exhaust temps would have to get pretty high to melt or wreck a valve. I think you'd be getting detention if your temps were getting too high, Weistec runs these tunes pretty conservatively.

mr747

THanks guys this is all interesting

Merc63 the head has all been tested and crack tested and all is ok and was ok but it was just there advice

They were not saying it was a problem but could potentially be a problem

I would think a stage 3 would be more efficient then a stage 2 so the intake temperatures should possible be better

Jasonoff

How long it lasts is completely variable. It uses a high pressure pulse injection pump that would be controlled by the tune.

Just to give you an idea. 4 or 5 20-30 min sessions at 6000-8500 rpm went through almost a full 1gallon tank.



There's also a level switch that lets you know when you're "empty" so the tune can be modified on the fly.

ritalin

The mist and amount is so fine that you really dont use a lot of meth/water mix.
It really depends on when and where you are using it.
In a daily driven application i would go through less than a gallon a week driving about 400km.
I used a snow perf stg 2 meth injection setup.
The setup uses a line tapped off of diverter valves in my case and fed to the control module. The pumps work infinitely and you can adjust what boost level you want the meth to start spraying. It would begin spraying at 7lbs of boost and and ramping up from lets say 30 percent to the full 100 percent by full boost of 16.8lbs.
I was using giac stg 2 plus software on my 335 which was tailored to make use of the added
octane.
If you were road racing often in boost all the time you would be using a lot more fluid. In a drag racing application your not using much at all, considering how short your run is.
Street driving, you definitely use more depending on your settings and requirements of your setup.
You can choose your tank size depending on your purpose, dd, rr, drag.
This is by no means an official how it all works as im far from an authority on the matter but there is so much discussion on it and it has proven itself a very useful tool and with all failsafe's in place far from volatile.

It seems a lot of LS guys on corvette forum only run one nozzle in most cases...

ritalin

Or this.
Which is why the control is important.

Phil Chow

Meth is great for Turbo or Supercharged cars.

Cools the air, allowing for the engine to run more efficiently. Essentially makes the gas a higher octane.

Does not show that much benefit on N/A cars though.

RNS-11Z

Brad I will be adding meth at some point to so keen to see what you come up with

Southways

Some things to consider:
- Twin-screw superchargers compress with every turn, so injecting pre-rotors will do some negative things:
a] The meth-mix will be heated which will reduce its effectiveness.
b] The rotors will get thermally shocked. The rotors in the twin-screw are hard anodised and thermal shock is not consistent with longevity.
c] Meth seepage into the support bearings will not be helpful.
- Meth mix can be corrosive/erosive. Regular checks of the supercharger components is advised.
- Ensure the system installed has one-way valves. Boost pushing the meth-mix out of the tank & into the trunk could be hazardous.
- Even distribution across all cylinders is important.
- A rising-rate control system that interrogates boost/rpm/MAF is recommended.

marioflex

I have a friend with a stage 3 SLS using meth. It was tune by Steve from Weistec and is running perfectly. I thought long time ago about using it but a have seen so many motors damage because a malfunctions on meth systems that I desist. The only way you know the system is working is because it have a light that turn from red to green when you accelerate. I just decide that is safer to use c16 when track the car and that way I feel secure.

Merc63

I just use race fuel when I race too, seems to work really good. That and allow your engine to cool right down before racing is huge.

Petakii63

Depends on how your going to run it...Methanol has an motor octane rating of 113. Most cars run a 50/50 mix of methanol and water because it is the most simplest form requiring virtually no tuning, methanol line pressures aren't as important, and cylinder to cylinder distribution irregularities aren't always catastrophic. More advanced systems run 100% methanol but these require the use of sophisticated computers to pull fuel out from the primary source, to increase timing for immediate power increases, and the methanol injection must be designed such that even distribution of methanol to each cylinder is essential to prevent engine damage, precise methanol line pressures must be maintained, and safety devices must be used in case the methanol runs out or the line becomes blocked. The 100% methanol system will make significantly more power than a 50/50 mix but there must be systems in place to support it.


You also need to worry about distribution...When the methanol system is designed such that the distribution to all of the cylinders is uneven, then some cylinders will run leaner than others, some cylinders will have less octane than others, and some cylinders will run much hotter than others. All three of these things can lead to engine damage. So just misting into the intake manifold would cause uneven distribution.

My advice is if your not going to do it right then don't do it at all. And just run race gas. And the right way in your case is direct port injection. For ultimate performance, reliablity, and safety.

ritalin

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...t-came-in.html

This would be my idea of a proper kit.
I would need a seperate manifold to try this.