Cooling, cheap trick -- Water Wetter?
07-07-2016, 11:20 AM
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AMG GTBS, AMG GTR Pro, AMG GT, C63 AMG, Porsche Panamera 4S, RX-7 FC Turbo II
Cooling, cheap trick -- Water Wetter?
I was at Summit Point over the weekend with TrackDaze and was discussing our cooling issues with a BMW guy. He suggested running distilled water and a product called Water Wetter rather than anti-freeze/coolant in the car (during warm weather months), indicating that this would reduce engine oil temps 10-20 degrees. Can you do this with our cars? Has anybody tried it? Effectiveness?
Last edited by Case1906; 07-07-2016 at 12:57 PM.
07-07-2016, 12:31 PM
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2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Our antifreeze is considered "lifetime" coolant. As in it only needs to be changed every 15yrs. C63 radiators have an anode that dissolves slowly over time to replenish the additives. Not sure you want to mess around with the coolant. With that said, half of what's in my expansion tank is WaterWetter just for the hell of it, but I don't think it makes any difference.
Here's a quote from another post:
Here's a quote from another post:
The recommended service interval for the C63 got me interested in finding out a little more about the system...saw this:
Be sure to use the Mercedes-Benz coolant MB 325.1, as it is only slightly more expensive, but it is worth it. Dilute 50/50 with distilled water. Don’t use tap water if you can avoid it as water has dissolved ions, and hard water can cause precipitates with corrosion inhibitors such as phosphates. These are commonly used in many antifreeze products, causing deposits and decreased flow and heat transfer. Mercedes coolant is formulated without phosphates so hardness is less of a problem. Deionized water has sodium in it, while using distilled its preferable because it has negligible ion content.
Antifreeze corrosion inhibitors packages are not all alike and considering the cost of a radiator or engine it is cheap insurance to use the OEM formulation. Mercedes uses silicates and is formulated to protect the metals in the system, particularly aluminum. Additionally, brazes, plastics, and gaskets are also a consideration. If you mix two types of coolants equally, even if the second is a universal coolant, you just halved each corrosion inhibitor concentration causing neither to be adequate to protect the system. Universal coolants can be mixed with any type of coolant without immediate damage to the cooling system, but don't ignore the fact that you are reducing the long term protective benefits of both coolants if they are formulated differently, inviting long term damaging effects.
For the most part, vehicles 2002 and later specify a cooling flush every 15 years or 150,000 miles. Mercedes 2001 and earlier are every 3 years. There are exceptions in the transition years. Later production vehicles with 15/150 service interval have a silica gel packet in the coolant reservoir that constantly replenishes the silicate concentration in the Mercedes Benz coolant helping to promote the long life. If you top off with another type of coolant such as OAT (organic acid) or phosphate based you are contaminating the factory coolant system. Ignore color when trying to differentiate coolants, as these are added dyes and don't indicate anything specific about the components. Coolants compatible with MB coolant would be typically labeled G-05. Consider how unfortunate it would be to have to replace the aluminum heater core if it started leaking. Although uncommon, when it does occur it is usually the result of poor maintenance or ignoring the use of the correct coolants. The repair is costly and involves complete removal of the instrument panel to the firewall.
The silicate formulation in the MB coolant offers very quick protection of the water pump from cavitations’ damage, while OAT coolants are much slower to protect. When cavitations occur at high temperatures under load the fluid boils in low pressure areas generated by the pump blades. When these bubbles collapse under pressure they cause tiny shock waves that blow the oxide coating off the metal. The metal can then erode and corrode since it is unprotected, causing the silicates to quickly form a coating that protects the metal and heals quickly if damaged by cavitations. The benefits of using the factory coolant make a long list; it is worth the small added cost. Regardless of the vehicle brand, it is always best to use the OE specified coolant and follow the manufacturer guidelines for dilution.
Be sure to use the Mercedes-Benz coolant MB 325.1, as it is only slightly more expensive, but it is worth it. Dilute 50/50 with distilled water. Don’t use tap water if you can avoid it as water has dissolved ions, and hard water can cause precipitates with corrosion inhibitors such as phosphates. These are commonly used in many antifreeze products, causing deposits and decreased flow and heat transfer. Mercedes coolant is formulated without phosphates so hardness is less of a problem. Deionized water has sodium in it, while using distilled its preferable because it has negligible ion content.
Antifreeze corrosion inhibitors packages are not all alike and considering the cost of a radiator or engine it is cheap insurance to use the OEM formulation. Mercedes uses silicates and is formulated to protect the metals in the system, particularly aluminum. Additionally, brazes, plastics, and gaskets are also a consideration. If you mix two types of coolants equally, even if the second is a universal coolant, you just halved each corrosion inhibitor concentration causing neither to be adequate to protect the system. Universal coolants can be mixed with any type of coolant without immediate damage to the cooling system, but don't ignore the fact that you are reducing the long term protective benefits of both coolants if they are formulated differently, inviting long term damaging effects.
For the most part, vehicles 2002 and later specify a cooling flush every 15 years or 150,000 miles. Mercedes 2001 and earlier are every 3 years. There are exceptions in the transition years. Later production vehicles with 15/150 service interval have a silica gel packet in the coolant reservoir that constantly replenishes the silicate concentration in the Mercedes Benz coolant helping to promote the long life. If you top off with another type of coolant such as OAT (organic acid) or phosphate based you are contaminating the factory coolant system. Ignore color when trying to differentiate coolants, as these are added dyes and don't indicate anything specific about the components. Coolants compatible with MB coolant would be typically labeled G-05. Consider how unfortunate it would be to have to replace the aluminum heater core if it started leaking. Although uncommon, when it does occur it is usually the result of poor maintenance or ignoring the use of the correct coolants. The repair is costly and involves complete removal of the instrument panel to the firewall.
The silicate formulation in the MB coolant offers very quick protection of the water pump from cavitations’ damage, while OAT coolants are much slower to protect. When cavitations occur at high temperatures under load the fluid boils in low pressure areas generated by the pump blades. When these bubbles collapse under pressure they cause tiny shock waves that blow the oxide coating off the metal. The metal can then erode and corrode since it is unprotected, causing the silicates to quickly form a coating that protects the metal and heals quickly if damaged by cavitations. The benefits of using the factory coolant make a long list; it is worth the small added cost. Regardless of the vehicle brand, it is always best to use the OE specified coolant and follow the manufacturer guidelines for dilution.
07-07-2016, 01:01 PM
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07-07-2016, 06:38 PM
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07-07-2016, 08:02 PM
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I used water wetter for years in my race car. Never noticed any temperature difference at all.
I like Redline products, but for a street car that needs or calls for a specific product to be used, I would avoid it.
I like Redline products, but for a street car that needs or calls for a specific product to be used, I would avoid it.
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07-07-2016, 08:04 PM
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^^^ i use this in my ice tank
07-07-2016, 08:14 PM
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Water wetter is for engine coolant. Coolant temperatures are not an issue in the C63. Therefore doing this will make zip difference for oil temperature at all.
Now, if, on the other hand, you added water and water wetter instead of engine oil, you would have no oil overheating problems any more for sure.
Now, if, on the other hand, you added water and water wetter instead of engine oil, you would have no oil overheating problems any more for sure.
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zcct04 (07-07-2016)
07-07-2016, 08:23 PM
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Water Wetter is indeed an additive or used with water alone. It's amazing stuff. Again, reading specifically where it can be used, in temps that do not reach freezing, it has superior performance in the coolant system. The anticorrosion benefits are ideal where regular coolant lags and causes the nasty headbolt issue...
I love redline. I have been using their oil and the Water Wetter and my engine has stayed clean, cool and never skipped a beat or had any crazy build up.
I love redline. I have been using their oil and the Water Wetter and my engine has stayed clean, cool and never skipped a beat or had any crazy build up.
Last edited by ZephyrAMG; 07-07-2016 at 08:26 PM.
07-07-2016, 08:35 PM
#12
Water wetter is for engine coolant. Coolant temperatures are not an issue in the C63. Therefore doing this will make zip difference for oil temperature at all.
Now, if, on the other hand, you added water and water wetter instead of engine oil, you would have no oil overheating problems any more for sure.
Now, if, on the other hand, you added water and water wetter instead of engine oil, you would have no oil overheating problems any more for sure.
07-07-2016, 10:29 PM
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I started using WW (diesel version as above) after examining some highly pitted/corroded M156 head bolts. Cavitation causes pitting, we all know that. WW helps to reduce or eliminate cavitation. Ergo, there's a good chance WW can extend the life of M156 head bolts in addition to any other "regular" benefit. It's a no-brainer for me.
07-07-2016, 10:50 PM
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Use a turkey baster and extract 16oz from the coolant reservoir. Add back 1/2 bottle of Diesel WW and 8oz of fresh coolant. Repeat every two years.
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AMG3.2 (07-08-2016)
07-08-2016, 12:09 AM
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What Wobble said is key. Our overheat problem is that we can't cool the oil, and you can't add Water Wetter to the oil. Water. The water side of our system is already more than sufficient even for track abuse in the summertime, and for most of us there is no evident reason to run Water Wetter.
Those running turbos or S/Cs MAY be adding enough power to stress the water cooling system, but that's the only logical exception.
Those running turbos or S/Cs MAY be adding enough power to stress the water cooling system, but that's the only logical exception.
07-08-2016, 06:04 AM
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What Wobble said is key. Our overheat problem is that we can't cool the oil, and you can't add Water Wetter to the oil. Water. The water side of our system is already more than sufficient even for track abuse in the summertime, and for most of us there is no evident reason to run Water Wetter.
Those running turbos or S/Cs MAY be adding enough power to stress the water cooling system, but that's the only logical exception.
Those running turbos or S/Cs MAY be adding enough power to stress the water cooling system, but that's the only logical exception.
Thanks Zcct - you were the only one picking up on my attempt at a joke: So, to avoid a misunderstanding - Please do not replace your engine oil with water and water wetter. Yes, you will not have an issue with excessive engine oil temperatures, but that would be because your engine does not run any more.....
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Case1906 (07-08-2016)
07-08-2016, 10:30 AM
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W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Water wetter is for engine coolant. Coolant temperatures are not an issue in the C63. Therefore doing this will make zip difference for oil temperature at all.
Now, if, on the other hand, you added water and water wetter instead of engine oil, you would have no oil overheating problems any more for sure.
Now, if, on the other hand, you added water and water wetter instead of engine oil, you would have no oil overheating problems any more for sure.
What Wobble said is key. Our overheat problem is that we can't cool the oil, and you can't add Water Wetter to the oil. Water. The water side of our system is already more than sufficient even for track abuse in the summertime, and for most of us there is no evident reason to run Water Wetter.
Those running turbos or S/Cs MAY be adding enough power to stress the water cooling system, but that's the only logical exception.
Those running turbos or S/Cs MAY be adding enough power to stress the water cooling system, but that's the only logical exception.
I would leave well enough alone and not muck with it as high coolant temperature has never been an issue with the C63. Having said that, I also use Water Wetter in the track rat P-car and it does help in that particular application - but that one never sees freezing temperatures, and moreover it runs on a 50/50 mix of distilled water and coolant and likely a few beer molecues that are still floating in the system after a coolant hose burst trackside and I ran out of water (distillled, bottled or melted ice from the drink cooler) to fill it up with after repalcing the hose...
Last edited by Diabolis; 07-08-2016 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Wrong posts quoted
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Case1906 (07-08-2016)
