ABC Flush on 04 CL 500....problems

[radride]

Originally Posted by MattiR HI! ABC pump in my S500 was leaking and was replaced with flushing. Now the message "Drive carefully, visit workshop" comes when driving. Car does not lower itself, and no problems when driving. Rodeo test does not go through, but stops when pressure drops below 100bar. DYnamic test in DAS passes perfectly. In DAS I get error message C1526 - problem with pressure supply. Where is the problem? Is the new pump faulty? Or accumulator is not keeping the pressure in the system? Any idea would be appreciated. THanks in advance Regards, MAtti Your pump is starting to fail. R.K.

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[Ifari]

AFAIK, there is no ABC in the S500, but in any case the best thing to do is 'visit workshop'.

[2006CL600]

You must have a leak in the system or a height sensor is out of range. I am not educated on the AIRMATIC system and really cant give advice to what it could be. The Hydraulic systems I know. They are totally different but take it back, raise some hell.

[MattiR]

Originally Posted by radride

Your pump is starting to fail.

R.K.

Thanks for the hint. The pump was just replaced, so I would look the problem somewhere else.

[MattiR]

Originally Posted by Ifari

AFAIK, there is no ABC in the S500, but in any case the best thing to do is 'visit workshop'.

ABC is available as an option for S500. And I have visited the workshop several times. They can not find the reason.

[MattiR]

Originally Posted by 2006CL600

You must have a leak in the system or a height sensor is out of range. I am not educated on the AIRMATIC system and really cant give advice to what it could be. The Hydraulic systems I know. They are totally different but take it back, raise some hell.

Thanks for the hints.
This is ABC system, not AIRMATIC.
Why the height sensor would be out of the range. Car is not sinking and works fine when driving.
Liquid level is not decreasing, and no spots in the floor, so could it really be leaking?

[ch33sehead]

Let's clear up some confusion in this thread.

1) ABC was an option on S500s so it is possible to have an s500 with ABC instead of Airmatic.

2) There are many different components in ABC system. The ABC pump is different than the pressure supply valve. ABC pump is the same as the power steering pump (it is a tandem pump, or double pump). ABC pump does not have an accumulator. Pressure supply valve does. Pump supplies fluid to the valve, which has a pressure sensor so it can pass 200bar of it to the rest of the system and cycle the rest back to the return.

EDIT: here are some pictures:

pressure supply valve: http://pics.eurochopshop.com/x/XACZ/XACZ021.JPG
ABC pump (AKA steering pump, tandem pump, etc): http://pics.eurochopshop.com/x/XACZ/XACZ064.JPG

[2006CL600]

Go to your car and cycle the suspension up and down. See if it raises up then hit the button again and see if it raises the second time. Then lower and repeat several times. See if it cycles. Also, try turning the car on and off a few time and also check your fluid level on the pump reservoir and the ABC fluid reservoir reservoir and let me know what happens. You could have air in the system still or could be low on fluid. Did you take it to the dealership or an independent?

[2006CL600]

Originally Posted by MattiR

Thanks for the hints.
This is ABC system, not AIRMATIC.
Why the height sensor would be out of the range. Car is not sinking and works fine when driving.
Liquid level is not decreasing, and no spots in the floor, so could it really be leaking?

I hadn't filled my tank in over 8 months and the car was low on gas. I drove out the rest of the fuel and went to fill the car and the damn light came on. I turned off the car went back and started it and it never came one again. The MBZ guy told me that the height sensor may have been out of range but when he put it on the Star system nothing showed up and I haven't seen the light before or since. Sometimes he said the sensors go wonky for No reason esp. if the car sits for a very long time, mine hadnt been filled since May of 2011 until I drove out the last bit in Jan 2012. That was why I asked about height sensor. It didn't make sense to me either so I just wrote it off as just a little glitch that fixed itself.

[mf219]

Originally Posted by 2006CL600

I hadn't filled my tank in over 8 months and the car was low on gas. I drove out the rest of the fuel and went to fill the car and the damn light came on. I turned off the car went back and started it and it never came one again. The MBZ guy told me that the height sensor may have been out of range but when he put it on the Star system nothing showed up and I haven't seen the light before or since. Sometimes he said the sensors go wonky for No reason esp. if the car sits for a very long time, mine hadnt been filled since May of 2011 until I drove out the last bit in Jan 2012. That was why I asked about height sensor. It didn't make sense to me either so I just wrote it off as just a little glitch that fixed itself.

sorry, don't see the connection between how much gas is in your car & the ride height sensor

[2006CL600]

There is not need to be confused. I am just telling you what the MBZ mechanic though it could be. Being that the car had not had any weight in the system ( 20 gallons of gas) in over 8 months the calibration was off that is what he thought. It hasn't done it since, so I am not worried, so it shouldn't be any concern, I just mentioned it. Now lets get back to the other gentleman's concern.

[MattiR]

Originally Posted by 2006CL600

Go to your car and cycle the suspension up and down. See if it raises up then hit the button again and see if it raises the second time. Then lower and repeat several times. See if it cycles. Also, try turning the car on and off a few time and also check your fluid level on the pump reservoir and the ABC fluid reservoir reservoir and let me know what happens. You could have air in the system still or could be low on fluid. Did you take it to the dealership or an independent?

Thanks to everybody for trying to find the reason for the problem.
I have been using ABC button dozens of times after this error message appeared first time, and it works like it should. Fluid level stays in correct level. Flushing made by dealer twice already with 15 litres of new oil. I have tested ABC system with DAS twice, including rodeo test, dynamic test, and testing of individual components. The same tests have been made at official MB dealer as well, with identical results. The rodeo test stops after around 30sec because the pressure slowly drops below 100bar. Normally it does not drop below 130bar during rodeo. There are no error codes for individual ABC components. The new pump is a professionally re-built one, and installed in January.
The system works normally when driving. The problem is fault message in instrument panel (ABC, visit workshop), and error code C1526 (problem in pressure supply) in DAS testing (Star). Dealer is ready to try changing components one by one if I pay all the costs.
Some guesses I have:
- the pump is not working properly, even though it was tested before installation. (the pressure measured by DAS is not pump output pressure because the pressure sensor in ABC is not directly measuring pump output, but is located further in the system)
- accumulators ( I think there are 2 of them) are not keeping the pressure during sudden demand.
- supply valve is not leaking because the car does not lower itself during stay.
- there could be some debris stuck inside the system causing malfunction, but flushing can not remove it. I do not want to renew each component in order to find if there is debris or not.
- could there still be some air in the system because rodeo test can not be completed. Is there another way to bleed the system?

Please keep the ideas coming, we will fix this!!

[biker349]

only other way to get air out of system i'm aware of is to to cycle the abc up and down with the buttons. it is possible that the pump was not rebuilt to proper standards. where did you get the pump rebuilt? good luck. i've heard about problems with accumulators, but i believe they will throw a code, not sure though.

[grane]

I have checked my two hydraulic fluid levels with the Dipsticks. The Fluid itself was the same color as the Petrosin (available at Advanced Auto Parts at < $20 litre) that I have on hand that is the a replacement for the MBZ branded fluid in my manuals. That color is a one indicator the ABC system is up to snuff.

Question: is there a way to replace the 2filters near the dipstick without draining or depressurizing the system? What is the procedure? Do I have to cycle the car through the 3 ABC levels 20 times or so (cheap rodeo) after I replace the filters? The more detail the better for a dummy like me.

Thanks,

Grane

system?

Originally Posted by 2006CL600

Your suspension after you turn it off will settle at MOST 1/4 " if it ever settles any lower than that you have a leak somewhere in the system. Usually in one or both of the blocks. Your system will have two filters and two dip sticks. One short one on the pump reservoir, known as the power steering pump/ABC pump which the filter is right on top of it and has one short dip stick and a filter on that reservoir right above that the ABC reservoir and has one filter and one LONG dipstick beside it. I have left my car's sitting for months at a time and NEVER, EVER have they dropped but the normal 1/4". Listen guys, if your car drops, you have a problem, plain and simple and any one that thinks that they don't have a reservoir is living on another planet. How do you think fluid gets into the system, through osmosis? No, the system is closed but it has to have dipstick's and reservoir's and filters. Your system should NEVER ,EVER, EVER,EVER, EVER settle more than 1/4", PERIOD!!! You should read your manual or ask your service adviser how often the system should be flushed or the filters changed. I just changed my power steering filter and the book never says anything about it but I'm telling you, that filter is just as key as the filter for the ABC unit itself. Flush all those fluids. They get debris in them and it will shut you down. Oh and yes the volume of the system will change as the nitrogen in each of the cells depletes. The more the Cells/Accumulators loose their charge the lower the fluid will become. If you take out your filter and look at it it should be WHITE without ANY trash or discoloration. They are both FLEECE just like the filter for the OIL. Look for the rubber caps that say OEL on them. Check the levels on both. Look at the level of the long stick. One side will say AN and the other side will say AUS. With the engine running check the fluid on the AN side, it should be at the leve of indent on the stick. Turn off the car and allow the car to settle and recheck the stick it should be in the indent at the top which is the AUS side of the stick. Meaning AN with engine charge and AUS meaning without charge.
Also, you can hit your button on the dash either while sitting or while moving and the car will raise about 2 inches in total and inch per raise or light. lite on the dash. If your car doesn't move up when you hit those buttons and it doesn't say system is raising then you definatly have a problem.

[2006CL600]

Yes you can and make sure you buy ORIGINAL MBZ filters, remove the caps and change them, It will not effect the pressure in the system. They are just reservoirs. (be careful not to damage the upper gaskets when you replace the filters, they can easily get crimped and damaged). These are spring loaded, press, twist and turn to remove, same to install. EVERYONE should replace theirs even if they DO NOT WANT TO flush the system. When you see what the old one looks like versus the new one you will be AMAZED and you will see metal shavings all over the filters. P.S. Make sure you top off the fluid in both the pump and the ABC reservoirs when finished.

Now,your problem could be the pump you had rebuilt isn't pumping enough pressure or the valve in the pump is not allowing pressure to build or it's the cell in the middle of the car, not the one on the front or the rear. Do the bounce test front and rear, just to see. Also, does the car drive differently than it did before all of this happened? If your dealership can not fix the issue contact MBZ customer service, tell them what these guys are doing and maybe they will help you out and send you to another dealership, where there is a mechanic that actually knows what he is doing. You just don't Willy Nilly go and start replacing parts until you find the problem, that is shade tree mechanic working at its finest. COMPLAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ch33sehead]

Originally Posted by MattiR

Thanks to everybody for trying to find the reason for the problem.
I have been using ABC button dozens of times after this error message appeared first time, and it works like it should. Fluid level stays in correct level. Flushing made by dealer twice already with 15 litres of new oil. I have tested ABC system with DAS twice, including rodeo test, dynamic test, and testing of individual components. The same tests have been made at official MB dealer as well, with identical results. The rodeo test stops after around 30sec because the pressure slowly drops below 100bar. Normally it does not drop below 130bar during rodeo. There are no error codes for individual ABC components. The new pump is a professionally re-built one, and installed in January.
The system works normally when driving. The problem is fault message in instrument panel (ABC, visit workshop), and error code C1526 (problem in pressure supply) in DAS testing (Star). Dealer is ready to try changing components one by one if I pay all the costs.
Some guesses I have:
- the pump is not working properly, even though it was tested before installation. (the pressure measured by DAS is not pump output pressure because the pressure sensor in ABC is not directly measuring pump output, but is located further in the system)
- accumulators ( I think there are 2 of them) are not keeping the pressure during sudden demand.
- supply valve is not leaking because the car does not lower itself during stay.
- there could be some debris stuck inside the system causing malfunction, but flushing can not remove it. I do not want to renew each component in order to find if there is debris or not.
- could there still be some air in the system because rodeo test can not be completed. Is there another way to bleed the system?

Please keep the ideas coming, we will fix this!!

The supply valve and valve blocks are different things. Leaking valve blocks cause your car to lower, not supply valve.

Your supply valve is probably bad, or the pressure sensor is bad. Or maybe the connection to sensor is bad. They don't sell the sensor by itself anymore. Bad accumulator eventually hurts the supply valve too so you want to get a valve with accumulator.

During rodeo after it hits 100bar and stops, does the pressure climb back up quickly or slowly? Who installed the pump? Did they properly prime it?

[MattiR]

Originally Posted by ch33sehead

The supply valve and valve blocks are different things. Leaking valve blocks cause your car to lower, not supply valve.

Your supply valve is probably bad, or the pressure sensor is bad. Or maybe the connection to sensor is bad. They don't sell the sensor by itself anymore. Bad accumulator eventually hurts the supply valve too so you want to get a valve with accumulator.

During rodeo after it hits 100bar and stops, does the pressure climb back up quickly or slowly? Who installed the pump? Did they properly prime it?

Thanks!
The pressure sensor works fine in DAS test.
When the pressure dops below 100bar the rodeo test does not move forward and it says "--- bar" in the screen, and not possible to follow the pressure. After that can be levelled normally with DAS.
The pump was rebuilt by an independent specialist in Germany, and was installed by MB dealer. They follow factory instructions in details, but I did not follow it.

[JHouse]

Originally Posted by 2006CL600

I just changed my power steering filter and the book never says anything about it ...that filter is just as key as the filter for the ABC unit itself. ...They are both FLEECE just like the filter for the OIL.

Where do I find these two filters on the car?

And do we have an internet source for purchase? Name/part number?

[2006CL600]

Go to the dealer they are cheap enough.

[JHouse]

It really wasn't about the price. I just want to know what to call them and where to put them. Thanks.

[2006CL600]

Sorry, just ask for a power steering pump filter and an ABC filter

[JHouse]

OK, you useless bunch. I went to the dealer and bought two fleece filters.

Here is the breakdown of where they go. They are parts 20 and 25:



These are the part numbers (corrected):

A 003 184 61 01 -- This is the big one for the ABC reservoir. About $78.00

A 002 184 55 01 -- This is the little one for the power steering unit. About $14.00

It looks like they are both held in by springs and you get to them through the twist off tops to the reservoirs.

I will take pictures when I get around to doing it.

No help yet? I really don't want to screw this up.

[2006CL600]

WOW your dealer bent you over. I paid 6.62 for the Power steering filter and 30.24 for the ABC filter at the MBZ counter. Man Id raise hell. Anyway, be very careful when sealing them so that you get the lip inside the reservoir so it doesn't get crimped and that when you seal off the top it makes a perfect seal or it will leak. I would call ream them a new one. Call MBZ customer service. My dealer marks them up over MSRP by 2-3%. Your dealer is crooked!!!!!!!! Anyway, it was a very smart move on your part. Since your car has miles on it I would drive it for a few months and change them one more time. That way you clean up the entire system with the filters. Your part numbers are correct. If I were you Id print out this and take it to your dealer and show them and ask for a refund. Show him what you bought #7 and # 8.

[Jud Chapin]

Originally Posted by 2006CL600

WOW your dealer bent you over. I paid 6.62 for the Power steering filter and 30.24 for the ABC filter at the MBZ counter. Man Id raise hell. Anyway, be very careful when sealing them so that you get the lip inside the reservoir so it doesn't get crimped and that when you seal off the top it makes a perfect seal or it will leak. I would call ream them a new one. Call MBZ customer service. My dealer marks them up over MSRP by 2-3%. Your dealer is crooked!!!!!!!! Anyway, it was a very smart move on your part. Since your car has miles on it I would drive it for a few months and change them one more time. That way you clean up the entire system with the filters. Your part numbers are correct. If I were you Id print out this and take it to your dealer and show them and ask for a refund. Show him what you bought #7 and # 8.

[/IMG]

He paid retail which is what most people pay, and certainly nothing to get all worked up about. He said he didn't care about price, I believe. If he does, he knows now he can purchase MB parts much cheaper on line.

[JHouse]

Thanks guys, I was asking for help on two different forums and getting nothing. I appreciate the help and the tips. I'll take them back today and order on line. I heard them quote someone an updated Nav DVD - $325.00 way over retail. I have service call scheduled there which I will cancel. BTW it is MB of Greenway Plaza in Houston.

Is it against the rules to tell me what website that is? I found a different one.

Is this the right fluid for the ABC system? https://www.carpartsdiscount.com/aut..._989910310.jpg