ctravis595

abc system failed on the 02 cl500, so i decided to give strutmasters.com conversion kit a go since the installation on the video seemed simple. the only thing i did not consider was the chance that my abc pump wont function strongly enough for the power steering to work after a flush/filter change. (which i'm hoping mercedes will do for free since they told me my suspension was functioning correctly just a few months ago)

upon doing some research, the s430 for 2002 (which is a v8) has a non abc suspension system, does anybody think it would be possible to take out the abc pump and replace it with the s430 power steering pump and attach the power steering hose to the p/s pump directly? the s430 p/s steering pump takes pentosin CHF11s fluid, just like the power steering that is already used by the abc/tandem/ps pump so the fluid is interchangeable for sure

does anybody know if the tandem/ps part of the pump on my cl500 was putting out different pressure readings than say the non abc p/s pump on the s430? if they are different, is it a big deal?

does anybody know if the s belt on my cl500 engine will work with a s430 p/s pump?

does anybody know how difficult it would be to bolt the s430 p/s pump onto the cl500 engine?

here is a picture of the abc pump as it looks in my 02 that would be taken out
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-W215-ME...#ht_922wt_1037

here is a picture of the s430 p/s pump that i would test
http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-06-Merced...ht_2220wt_1270

i can imagine i'm either going to have to do some adjustments with p/s hose fitment and possibly some way to secure the s430 p/s pump to the cl500 engine. suggestions/ideas/information more than welcome. hopefully i'll get some pictures of the conversion as i go along if I'm not pulling my hair out

Welwynnick

Have you considered what you're going to do about the anti-roll bars?

Nick

ctravis595

I just got off the phone with the owner of the company that makes the conversion kit and he says the car handles very well despite not having sway bars, said he would try to send a video of a cl they have with the kit installed driving around for a bit. If I get the video ill share it here

the owner said he only knows of one person who has done what im considering doing, I dont know why I thought all s class models were ABC equipped, but to my suprise they have airmatic models which feature the 500 engine with the non ABC power steering pump. So im sure that will fit in like it should. Only problem would be retrofitting the pump hoses to fit the steering assembly. If anybody has any information regarding the power steering on the ABC or airmatic equipped benzos please feel free to discuss. at this point im basically trying to figure out how much of the s500 steering assembly/hoses will have to be swapped into my ABC stock Benz

Should also note that the strutmasters kit comes with end caps for the hydraulic lines so that the ABC pump still runs (for the sake of the power steering)

OCKlasse

I'm very excited to seeing how this goes. Will you be removing all of the ABC equipment? You will have to have ABC coded out of SDS in order to not throw any codes, but I do not believe it to be too difficult of a feat.

slonar21

Sway bar
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"A sway bar or anti-roll bar or stabilizer bar is a part of an automobile suspension that helps reduce the body roll of a vehicle during fast cornering or over road irregularities. It connects opposite (left/right) wheels together through short lever arms linked by a torsion spring. A sway bar increases the suspension's roll stiffness—its resistance to roll in turns, independent of its spring rate in the vertical direction"

I would be concerned driving a car with no sway bars at highway speeds, I have been in a rubicon jeep when the sway bars are disconnected for off road purposes, and driven back home on the highway, not very good, the jeep leaned enormously just changing lanes.

biker349

love to know about the pump options as well. when i called they said they had a module which attached under the dash and stops all abc warning messages for $200. they said they want to get their hands on a 600 to do the conversion. if anyones in the area could be interesting. they thought they would need stronger coils for the 600 and want to check it out>

Welwynnick

I would be extremely cautious about changing an ABC suspension to passive. I don't know much about strutmasters, but looking at their website, I think their kits are intended to replace airmatic suspension, not active. There are significant differences.

Firstly, the W220 doesn't have much suspension travel, because it doesn't need much. Mercedes never made any without self-levelling suspension. The passive suspension will need to bear the weight of any load without bottoming out. Other cars can do this with springs, but they were designed to do so from the outset.

Secondly, since ABC suspension counters body-roll using the springs, there are no anti-roll bars (and the ride and handling is all the better for it). I had an S500 (air) and S600 (ABC) at the same time a couple of years ago, and the difference driving down the same roads was profound. With Airmatic, a significant proportion of the total roll stiffness comes from the AR bars - probably MOST of it at the front.

Using coil-overs without AR bars will leave low roll-stiffness unless the main springs are particuarly stiff. And when you have stiff springs you have to have stiff shocks to stop it all getting too bouncy, and that's what really hurts the ride.

Suspension design is complicated, and AR bars serve other functions. Its important for both the ride and the handling that the suspension has a sensible ballance of front/rear roll stiffness, front/rear bounce stiffness, and pitch-roll stiffness. Part of the usual suspension solution for front-engined cars is a disproportionately stiff front AR bar. Remove that, and you upset everything, not just the total roll-stiffness.

Thirdly, ABC cars use different lower front track control arms (also called strut arms, as they bear the loads of the struts). The strut mountings are closer to the inner mountings - perhaps only half way along the arm. That means that ABC struts have to bear more load than Airmatic struts, AND have to be MUCH stiffer to maintain the same wheel rate (which is proportional to the SQUARE of the lever ratio). Using a coil-over intended for an airmatic car will result in softer suspension, notwithstanding the lack of AR bar, AND the ride height is likely to be much lower.

And finally, ABC cars don't have AR bar attachment points, so you can't add one even if you wanted to.

This isn't to say that coil-overs can't work on an ABC car, but there are lots of things to consider when making the decision.

Nick

awiner

Even though Strutmasters page indicated their package for the CL (W215) is for Airmatic, their package is indeed made to replace ABC. I have seen their installation video on a W215 and it clearly shows them removing ABC struts and capping the hydraulic lines with brass nuts.

Welwynnick makes excellent points however. Without sway bars I would think there will be issues in the handling aspects.

I would sure love to see a retrofitted CL and find out how it handles.

Unfortunately, the AMG vs Non AMG struts use different part #'s and Strutmasters only addresses the non AMG struts at this point in time.

ctravis595

i have the front factory struts out and the strutmasters struts in on the front, but i can't seem to get the end of the hydraulic line removed from the factory strut (it's necessary to cap the end of hydraulic line). it's being blocked by the housing at the top of the strut. the strutmasters instructional video shows them putting it on a vice and then torqueing the top retainment nut off with a pipe wrench in the front pair installation video, but then in the rear pair installation video it shows them hammering it off in a circular direction to unscrew it(using a chisel)

when i twist it off with a wrench the top retainment nut spins freely inside of the strut....

if anybody has any suggestions on how to disassemble the housing on top of the factory strut to access the 18 mm nut holding the hydraulic line it would be greatly appreciated. i'm trying to be as delicate as possible with the factory strut as i understand it's worth selling used. but right now my suspension conversion is sitting with no progress being made...


this is the video in which they use the hammer and chisel to unscrew the nut(3:50)

this is the video in which the use the pipe wrench and twist it off (3:14)

waiting until monday morning for the service techs at strutmasters to come back in to the office so i can contact them

OCKlasse

Is there female allen hole in the center of the top hat? If it's like the MacPherson struts on other Benzes, then you have to loosen a center allen threaded bolt to while removing the top hat. That's the only thing I can think of?

OCKlasse

bump for updates.

ctravis595

conversion update:

conversion is complete, factory hydraulic struts were removed and the strutmasters struts fit in snugly. abc system was topped up after i plugged the ends of each hydraulic line, also changed out the abc filter and the power steering filter for a preventative measure.

not sure if changing the abc filter was necessary because i noticed the power steering fluid was still at a good level despite the fact that the abc fluid had all drained out. power steering still functions as it does but im being careful in case the power steering decides to go while im driving

you never really realize how heavy this car is until you take off the active suspension. the car tilts in turns and during accel/braking like any other car over 4000 pounds but you dont know it with the abc. considering i spent 1400 on the strutmasters kit as opposed to the thousands i would have invested on fixing and maintaining the abc suspension i think it might be worth it though

worst part of this whole conversion was getting the top retainment nuts off of the factory struts/the nut that surrounds the abc sensor, but besides that it's pretty straightforward. unbolting and reattaching the struts behind the backseat is a pain also, it hurt me to have to take a kitchen knife to the interior of my benz to access the panel. if anybody is interested in my factory abc struts let me know

ctravis595

i also hate the stock ride height. i bought the car lowered and the kit brought it back to stock ride height and the car sits way differently in my opinion

awiner

Thanks for the update. What you have experienced is what I expected to hear.

Please let us know your thoughts and feelings as you get used to the ride over the next few months.

biker349

how did you get the top retaining nuts off the factory srutts?

OCKlasse

Have you considered running W220 control arms and sway bars?

ctravis595

Theres two notches in each nut, its a matter of hitting the nut enough times that it cones lose of the inside threaded piece. You cant hold the inside pieece still while you turn the outside so its a pain. Its almost like a manual impact wrench technique lol. If you didnt care about keeping the factory strut in good condition then you could probably drill a notch into the inner threaded part to keep it still but i wanted to be able to sell the struts afterwards

ctravis595

Would they fit? I really dislike the body roll during turns

Welwynnick

They probably would, but you may have to remove some of the ABC hardware that occupies the space where the anti-roll bar would go.

ctravis595

Does anyone know what all has to be swapped from the s class non abc power steering setup? My ABC pump leaks where the flywheel meets the housing, could probably be fixed with a new.gasket

OCKlasse

Bump for any updates

wjg23g

in for updates as well. I'm considering doing the coil over conversion for an sl500. Would I need to change the power steering as well? I'd rather not have any ABC system components active after the conversion

OCKlasse

Yes. You would need to remove all ABC components from the vehicle, and perhaps you can run a power steering pump off a Euro SL280 (230.454)

005-466-40-01

radride

I think I'll stick with fixing my ABC when it breaks. I don't like what the OP has to say about the conversion and how it feels.

R.K.

mikecl600

The coil over its not bad at all I did few cls and s class and really writes the same and u can use a w220 pump with no problem bolts right on