CL65 misfire

[NRL]

Originally Posted by abiazis While you are in there, might as well do both, especially if misfires have shown up on both sides, etc....even if only one side, I would do it..... Wonder if new part numbers/parts are upgrades to eliminate the coil pack weakness on these cars.........anyone know if they were upgraded? The new P/N`s are: A275 150 06 80 for the right and A275 150 07 80 for the left. I swapped out the ignition transformer, really easy. Went for a drive and it errored all on the right side so it looks like the old coil pack (the one with the older one) hopefully is bad.. new coil pack on the way. I'm a DIYer so I'll take my time in the garage swaping out the right coil first and probably check a few spark plugs before I put new ones in. I'm thinking this is not going to be the only time I'll be swapping out the coils. Like to hear if anyone is running a Tune and have no issues with their coils, new or old part#s..

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[abiazis]

hopefully someone knows if new coil numbers are improved to not fail (as much)

[cjcalo]

Not that this helps, but my car was running fine completely stock lots of wot pulls and no issues. Then once I got the tune and put the pedal down a few times the misfires showed up instantly. I probably had a weak coil (maybe on its way out soon) and the tune just magnified it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it for now....

What codes did you get?

[abiazis]

theory on tune causing coil to fail probably has merit......I'd stick to that explanation as being rational

[NRL]

Originally Posted by abiazis

theory on tune causing coil to fail probably has merit......I'd stick to that explanation as being rational

Yup, I agree, magnifys it with any tune especially if you use the tune..
In my case, it was once in a while, then finally in the end, the right coil pack is a gonner..

I'm going forward and keeping the tune and will master the art of replacing the coil packs, spark plugs...

That's what I do for all my vehicles, saved thousands..

[NRL]

Originally Posted by cjcalo

Not that this helps, but my car was running fine completely stock lots of wot pulls and no issues. Then once I got the tune and put the pedal down a few times the misfires showed up instantly. I probably had a weak coil (maybe on its way out soon) and the tune just magnified it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it for now....

What codes did you get?

I got the PO300, PO301, etc.. all on the right coil pack (Passenger side)

I got it a few times before I got the tune so I thought it was the gas, but now I'm thinking it's the right coil since it has the old part#.

If your a DIYer, can you pull(tell us) the part no# on your coil pack?

If not, no biggy, just want to see which partno people are running on their tuned V12s with their coil packs..

[cjcalo]

Originally Posted by NRL

I got the PO300, PO301, etc.. all on the right coil pack (Passenger side)

I got it a few times before I got the tune so I thought it was the gas, but now I'm thinking it's the right coil since it has the old part#.

If your a DIYer, can you pull(tell us) the part no# on your coil pack?

If not, no biggy, just want to see which partno people are running on their tuned V12s with their coil packs..

Yes I can do much of the work myself typically most of the work that can be done on jack stands in my garage. If it requires a lift then I have to bring it somewhere.

I pulled the part numbers they are the original coil packs. Right side (passenger) is A275 150 04 80 and left side (driver) is A275 150 05 80. I got code po303 on mine. I'm sure that once I change the right side the left side will fail shorty after Lol. Good thing that you already have 1 side changed to the new part number. How many miles are on your coil packs? Mine have 53k.

[NRL]

Thanks,
yup, got the same partno for the right side coil A275 150 04 80 as you.
That one has been in there from day one (I have all records). So 63k Miles, last 2000 miles with a tune pretty much accelerated it's malfunction..

On the left one (drivers side) I have A275 150 07 80 (new part#). Swapped at about 40-45k Miles..

I found a thread on Google last night from our British bro's talking about the old partno's are known to fail..

Curious how long it'll last new from the get go with the tune (from any of the Tuners).
I guess I'll find out..

I'd like to hear from somebody who has the tune on their V12TT, have original coils (the old partno#) and has no misfires..

[cjcalo]

Originally Posted by abiazis

theory on tune causing coil to fail probably has merit......I'd stick to that explanation as being rational

lol the coil pack only lasted 300 miles after I got the tune and changed the ic pump. Dammit I wish I would have stayed stock for a year before throwing a tune on it. I just bought the car 2 weeks ago and I'm already throwing money at it!

[NRL]

Originally Posted by cjcalo

lol the coil pack only lasted 300 miles after I got the tune and changed the ic pump. Dammit I wish I would have stayed stock for a year before throwing a tune on it. I just bought the car 2 weeks ago and I'm already throwing money at it!

Yup, sorry me too.. about 300 miles (not 2k miles) after the tune.

I did get to enjoy it for about a year before I did it..

At least our Tunes are each from a different Tuner.. but we have matching right coil pack old partno#s!

I just found the official two tools that are mentioned in the official MBZ doc (WIS/ASRA):

137 589 00 33 00 Ignition Rail Removal
285 589 00 34 00 Brace

I noticed the guys that did do it already never really needed the tools, but I ordered it anyways.

Here is a Link I found that is similar to the M275 Ignition coil removal, its for the Maybach M278:

http://www.mercedestechstore.com/pdf...2007-02-03.pdf

[NRL]

Got that right coil pack out! Didn't need those tools really.
It was nerve racking fun, fun,fun..

Looks like the second coil red boot has scrotch marks. That one red boot seems oily,can't tell if it's because it's melted or oil...
Some of the other red boots are rock hard..


More updates tommorrow. Probably check the spark plugs..
New spark plugs and the coil pack are on the way..

[cjcalo]

Thanks for the updates! Are you changing plugs on both sides or just one?

[abiazis]

My driver's side coil changed this week........car running great under full throttle, etc.....we'll see how long it lasts, they gave me superseded part number........

[NRL]

Probably, but I might not do it in one session.

I want to see if this new right coil pack and spark plugs fixes the problem in general.
Then I'll work on the Left Coil Side, maybe next month..

I'm pretty much convinced the other side needs spark plugs too. On the V12's I just can't believe the recommendation is to wait to 100k miles to change out the plugs. It's obvious that it gets hot in there and can't imagine how other things won't be baked also by now.

The oil I that I spotted on the one of the second coil red insulators is a puzzle, since that cylinder is near where the oil fill area is. It might have been old oil that was spilled or I have a valve cover leak.. Just alittle. That oil might have caused some kind of discharge since I see the scortch marks on that one insulator.

I'm going to take that plug out tonight and use my snake cam and look in and see if I see anything..

One thing for sure, it's easier to work on versus the 4x4 truck. There a few spots for improvement also, I noticed a few things that need to be addressed, spots rubbing where you know it's going to worn through or puncture. And was is the deal with those super tight zipties..


In general, I advise anyone looking to tune their V12's, be sure you either get new plugs and/or coil packs, cuz it gets even hotter.. it's just a matter of time. I could have stayed stock and I guess it would have happened sooner or later..

[NRL]

Originally Posted by abiazis

My driver's side coil changed this week........car running great under full throttle, etc.....we'll see how long it lasts, they gave me superseded part number........

Nice, by chance, can you tell us what the partno was and now is?
Both sides if possible.?

No bigger if you don't get to it.

[NRL]

Update:

With the coil pack out, I wanted to investigate further soI took a few spark plugs out to look at the condition.

Cylinder 1 (first two plugs, #1 and #2) had a thin film of oil on their red insulators, some tiny burn marks on them also so it looks it was discharging a bit. Electrode did not look fouled or oiled.
But..

What's odd is I can't tell how the oil got on to plug#2 and both #2 and #1 had oil around it's thread, insulator and upper part but not the last two threads before the electrode. All electrodes looked good too, puck still there. Gaps were consistent, either 0.023 or 0.025.. around there.

It might be a very fine val cover oil leak near that area or that sprayed/spilled oil from the oil filler was sitting in the cavity for a while (looks like old and dried up oil). I test spilled some alcohol from the oil filler area and it dripped right down, almost if not right into those two closest spark plug cavities..

So the question is, did the oil cause the misfire from the oiled red insulators
or
The coil pack stopped working on those two spark plugs and oil or oil like unburnt mixture somehow got there due to increased compression?

Could be a valve cover seal leak, a very fine one. I'm looking for some after spray around the area.. Otherwise all other spark plug cavities look clean.

I guess the only way to find out is to clean it up (really minor, but any oil on the red insulators is bad) and then put it back together and see if it oils up again with a new coil pack and spark plugs.

I have some good pics and a snake cam video( I saw the top of the piston!), that I'll upload later.

NewCoil pack delivered today, but still waiting on the plugs..

[abiazis]

The tech that checked my car said that the driver's side coil pack he replaced checked out okay on the MB Star Tech computer analyzer, but that he saw what looked like an arching issue with white residue on the coil pack near cylinders (11,12) that were misfiring.

Seeing that, he changed the coil and as mentioned in previous post, no issues under hard acceleration now....

PS - my car has stock tune....

[NRL]

Originally Posted by abiazis

The tech that checked my car said that the driver's side coil pack he replaced checked out okay on the MB Star Tech computer analyzer, but that he saw what looked like an arching issue with white residue on the coil pack near cylinders (11,12) that were misfiring.

Seeing that, he changed the coil and as mentioned in previous post, no issues under hard acceleration now....

PS - my car has stock tune....

Got her all back together today.
The car is running great with new spark plugs, new coil pack and all new red insulator boots.

I must say after practicing a few times, it was tedious but a great learning experience replacing the plugs, and packs.

For me, it was a small layer of oil on one red spark plug boot that caused the initial misfires at high rpm only and eventually might have caused the dimise of the right coil pack. Ill be checking for tiny bits of oil that might be coming from the valve gasket seal which I heard is a common place for oil to seep down straight to those spark plug cavity hole cavities. In my case it was the spark plug hole right below side the oil filler area. Traced an old crusty oil trail.

[cjcalo]

Good to hear! The new coil packs come with new insulator boots right?

[NRL]

Originally Posted by cjcalo

Good to hear! The new coil packs come with new insulator boots right?

Yup.

I added a dab of dielectric grease on the inside of each red boots just in case new oil gets down there again, should help seal it a bit.

[1995E320Cab]

Originally Posted by NRL

The new P/N`s are:
A275 150 06 80 for the right and A275 150 07 80 for the left.


I swapped out the ignition transformer, really easy.
Went for a drive and it errored all on the right side so it looks like the old coil pack (the one with the older one) hopefully is bad.. new coil pack on the way.

I'm a DIYer so I'll take my time in the garage swaping out the right coil first and probably check a few spark plugs before I put new ones in.

I'm thinking this is not going to be the only time I'll be swapping out the coils.

Like to hear if anyone is running a Tune and have no issues with their coils, new or old part#s..

I have been running a SPEEDRIVEN ECU / TCU tune for a while now, with no issues at all. I highly recommend anyone thinking of doing a tune call SPEEDRIVEN they are very helpful and know these V12TT better than anyone from what I have seen.

My coil packs have been replaced by the PO, I have been told by several Techs that the original ones are weaker and do not last.

.

[NRL]

Actually the recommendations should be if you don't have those new part#s I mentioned and you have the old part#s for the coil packs, recommend not to do the tune..

You can do it, but you might magnify or accelerate issues, aka misfires.

I may be wrong, but this is what I believe..

[driveability]

surely good advise. The factory only knows for sure about the new coils. There's lots of things that go on in R&D which never leaves the room. Working for GM I did see things happen and then were SWEAPPED UNDER THE CARPET The coils are pricy for sure and it"s tempting to try to save money. I would love to have my car tuned, that money thing ! Hard to justify having 600 hp now but if the tune tightens up the engine & transmission response to input makes it much more desirable and something worth doing.
John St John

[Marky]

Originally Posted by NRL

Actually the recommendations should be if you don't have those new part#s I mentioned and you have the old part#s for the coil packs, recommend not to do the tune..

You can do it, but you might magnify or accelerate issues, aka misfires.

I may be wrong, but this is what I believe..

What are the new part#s for the new coil packs?

EDIT: I have found your post from 04-11-2012!

[radride]

With all of this talk about the coils crapping themselves after a tune has got me thinking about not doing it at all. Otherwise to do a tune, one should budget around $5000; that would include the tune, coil packs, spark plugs and labor.

R.K.