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It feels VERY weird even being here with you MB boys (and girls). I've been a BMW dude almost all my life and have always had a friendly rivalry with the MB world. But here I am, and I am hoping you can help me make the switch - be gentle with me, I come in peace. Here's my story - I have 2 cars I drive - a stock 2003 Vette Z06, and a 2000 BMW 740iL ... between the 2, I satisfy all my car cravings. I love both these cars, but lately I find the Z06 looks, power and performance being slightly edged out by the rough ride factor (sore a$$). And besides, I am kind of in the mood to downsize into a single car. My preference is to buy an expensive fabulous auto, about 5-10 years old. I thought the BMW 7 series was the king of massive depreciation, but when I researched, I realized there is a new king of the mountain out there - the CL65 AMG. Holy Crap - now THAT is depreciation. I believe this might be the perfect car to replace both of mine. I just don't know much about the CL65, aside from the fact, that it will be expensive to maintain (which I am already used to with my current cars).
Is there a "BEST CL65" year to look at? Is the 2006 much less troublesome than the 2005 for any reason? Is there an engine model I should really avoid?
I would GREATLY appreciate your input on which used CL65 I should focus on.
In return, I will keep you all posted as to my switching progress.
the 65 AMG motor is pretty much the same from 03-current. imo get a w216, updated interior, looks good exterior wise (some don't like the pre '11 front) '11-'13 had the refresh, but of course the 216 is wayyyy more money than a w215, you'll love the w215 just get one fully optioned so you don't feel like its outdated lol. ABC is the biggest worry as with all ABC Merc's. and the v12 maintenance can be big.
The W216 is more reliable, but the 215 looks better to me and is a lot less expensive. No matter how good your luck with a CL65 is, there are going to be days it is down for repairs. I would be a little worried if it was my sole form of transportation as there are times parts take time to get to you from Germany.
That being said, when they are operating correctly, they are awesome. Quicker than the Z06 with the luxury of your BMW, a hard combination to beat IMO. Good luck!
Just checked out your photo gallery - really beautiful shots - great photo work!
Originally Posted by Blkvip
the 65 AMG motor is pretty much the same from 03-current. imo get a w216, updated interior, looks good exterior wise (some don't like the pre '11 front) '11-'13 had the refresh, but of course the 216 is wayyyy more money than a w215, you'll love the w215 just get one fully optioned so you don't feel like its outdated lol. ABC is the biggest worry as with all ABC Merc's. and the v12 maintenance can be big.
215 was produced through 2006 and the W215 CL65 was only produced for the last 2 years of that model, 2005&6. The 216 came out in 2007 and looks VERY different than a 215. There was no 2007 CL65, the 65 returned in 2008. Personally I only wanted a 65, the hard part was picking between a S, SL, and a CL. It came down to a 05/6 CL65, or a '11+ CL65. For the difference in price I went with a 05 and kept my second home.
Well I've been doing a lot of staring at the various 215 and 216 images and NOW I can start to see the differences. As a Bimmer dude, we are taught to see all MB's as the same, so its taking me some time to adjust to the variances between models. And what beauty there is!
Are there any differences between the 05 and 06 215's? (I'm trying my best to research this but I'm having a hard time finding info on the changes between model years)
My goal here is to do my very best at minimizing the variables that can affect my enjoyment of the car.
If the 206 was known to be much more reliable for some reason, I'd pay the extra $$.
In 2007, I bought a used but pristine 2000 BMW 740iL with 60,000 miles on it, at a much reduced rate, with the plan from the very start that I'd put a coupe hundred dollars into a "Maintenance Fund" each month ... and sure enough, there was never a cheap fix, and I spent pretty well what I was socking away. But the car has never let me down (knock on wood) and I still love to drive it each and every day. I knew going into the deal what the major exposures were (to this day my Nav system does not work, the stereo is quirky as hell, and I replace window actuators annually). But I set my expectations properly, and so I've been a very happy guy with all the potential and real issues lurking about.
I take it everywhere ... short drives, long drives, kids ... I'm never worried about breaking down somewhere.
I treat my cars well, I don't race them, get regular preventive maintenance done, will gun it now and then on the highway.
What I don't do is fix auto things myself. I would LOVE to be able to do so, but I am REALLY REALLY bad at it. I admire all of those owners out there that are able to take apart, repair, and then put back together a solution to make their baby better than ever ... I simply cause more damage. I AM very fortunate that I know how to make money (thank God). So I focus my talents on that part of my life, to enable me to enjoy the relationships and toys I surround myself with (mostly my family and friends relationships and some great toys).
So I am mentally and financially experienced to own a used beautiful luxury car that is 10+ years old and deal with the headaches that come along with the joy.
That being said, of all the cars I have researched, the 2005/6 CL65AMG seems like the perfect replacement to my Vette / BMW cars I own ... IF there's not a high chance its going to leave me stranded, or be in for repairs every month.
And so I look for guidance and feedback from you guys - what should I expect owning one of these beautiful works of art?
Will the ABC issue be a constant threat, even if it has been repaired? Will window issues, coils, spark plugs etc etc be the death of me?
I can take a lot of pain - just looking to see what you guys think that threshold is.
And thank you again for all your feedback - VERY HELPFUL!!
Originally Posted by Dr Matt
215 was produced through 2006 and the W215 CL65 was only produced for the last 2 years of that model, 2005&6. The 216 came out in 2007 and looks VERY different than a 215. There was no 2007 CL65, the 65 returned in 2008. Personally I only wanted a 65, the hard part was picking between a S, SL, and a CL. It came down to a 05/6 CL65, or a '11+ CL65. For the difference in price I went with a 05 and kept my second home.
ABC repairs are inevitable, but if you use some common sense they do not have to be a constant threat. Once coils are replaced with updated parts it should not be an issue. Plugs every 50,000 miles are not a big deal IMO. THere are a lot of other common issues, like passenger seat occupancy sensor, SRS control module, drivers door wiring, CPS, etc. but the thing that we all worry will leave a CL owner stranded is the ABC. Other than that you can rely on the car to get you around all the time.
If you can get a service history you can see if the ABC has been flushed, if the HPE hose was replaced after 2008 when the updated hose came out, etc. The smart thing to do is replace all possible problem parts either before, if, or when it fails so you are not doing repairs to the ABC again and again.
When I got my car@ 41,000 miles & 8 years old, the ABC system was fine, but it had never been touched other than replacing the HPE in 2007. I replaced the filter, flushed it and inspected everything and all looked good except it was low on fluid at the time I bought the car. A year and a half later, the HPE hose blew in my driveway. Great timing as I pulled into my garage and shut it off immediately. Rather than just replace that hose, I replaced all 4 of the pulsation dampners and every hose that didn't look perfect (6 of them) and flushed the system again. I'm kind of **** about maintainance so I look at all the hoses a couple time a year I am optimistic that I can drive without worry for a long time.
If you can't work on it yourself you absolutely need a good shop who knows CL's or you are going to get soaked on repairs like Edmunds.com did with their CL65.
Yes, dealer equals an absolute soaking. Get a good indy or DIY. Yes, proactively replace all rubber hoses with better versions from a local hydraulic shop. Yes, proactively replace the pulsation dampners. Yes, change plugs every 50k. The coil packs are very sensitive and very expensive.
Do not expect this to be a low maintenance car. I've owned a bunch of cars and this one takes the cake. It's, by far, the most expensive car to maintain/repair than I've ever owned. Go in with both eyes open.
If you're willing to settle for a 2003 CL600 with every option except design plus extended warranty ($0 deductible) & service records mine is available for sale: https://mbworld.org/forums/mercedes-...-warranty.html
I own a CL55 AMG so cannot advise you on the 65 model specifically but CL's across the board will cost you a lot of money after the 70k mile range. That's why you see so many for sale in that mileage range. I bought mine with 76k miles on it fully knowing I was going to be spending money to repair some things. If I were not a DIY'er, I would not own this car. Things I elected to not fix myself were then engine/tranny mounts. I am recovering from shoulder surgery at the moment so paid to have the plugs/wires, valve cover gaskets, and crank position sensor replaced and transmission fluid and filter done also. I have a nice Indy mechanic who lets me furnish the parts. I have had ABC issues that I've fixed myself and just a week before my surgery I replaced the front lower control arms and balljoints. Even though it is a high maintenance beotch, this car puts a big smile on my face every time I drive it, especially when I put my foot into it. It still has some minor issues that need fixing but they do not affect drivability. I elected to go with an 05 or 06 because I had read so much about them being the most sorted electronically. I researched the W215 for nine months before pulling the trigger and buying one.
Good luck on your quest.
Last edited by fireman685; 04-12-2015 at 06:27 AM.
So fireman, let me first tell you it is no surprise you are here on this forum. Birds of a feather, they say! I can speak as I've owned an 03 CL55, 01 750il, and now 05 CL65. You own the bimmer because the lines are absolutely timeless as well gangster and handles like a champ. And the vette for your lust. I will tell you the 65 will satisfy both! The 215 (05/06) CL is for you. Subtle, sleeper, yet sinister. Can't tell you how many compliments you will get and how many head you turn keeping people guessing what the he!! is that. Not sure about the sore a$$ thing in the vette but the massage backs in the Merc will make you forget about that. And if that doesn't, then the absolutely intoxicating acceleration will. You are here because like the rest of us, you are a person who is very particular and has an eye for a timeless ride. You already know what it take to own this type of car as e38's have so many things that break/maintain tranny, timing guide, electronics more so(e38.org) haha. Hopefully this is insightful. Good luck with your decision.
215 cl65 all the way!! Had a warr when I owned mine and loved the car. Took me about 2yrs to find(ok, to afford) one, but couldn't wait to hand over the money to the dealer after the find and test drive. After owning several cars, it is prob close to being my fav(Aston Db9 took its place). Even after I sold the 65, I bought a cl600(now sold) and currently daily drive a cl500. And would love to get into another 65 if finances allowed. IMO, alot of bang for your buck if you don't get hit with pricey repairs. For under $5k in mods you have a car that will run with (or beat) most higher priced exotic/sports cars
If you're not handy with a wrench or "know a guy" find a good honest Indy shop and you'll be fine
Go with the 65 but as many said, be wary about the repairs. I am a DIY type of guy, I do my own oil change, plugs, brakes etc. Only time I take it to my guy for work is If I need engine or tranny work, which I have not needed. I am selling my 65 pretty soon, its white and very clean, only down side is it has high mileage (100K+) but other than that a solid car, it was a CPO car from MB when it hit 100K miles.
Last edited by V12Godspeed; 04-13-2015 at 10:24 AM.
ABC repairs are inevitable, but if you use some common sense they do not have to be a constant threat. Once coils are replaced with updated parts it should not be an issue. Plugs every 50,000 miles are not a big deal IMO. THere are a lot of other common issues, like passenger seat occupancy sensor, SRS control module, drivers door wiring, CPS, etc. but the thing that we all worry will leave a CL owner stranded is the ABC. Other than that you can rely on the car to get you around all the time.
If you can get a service history you can see if the ABC has been flushed, if the HPE hose was replaced after 2008 when the updated hose came out, etc. The smart thing to do is replace all possible problem parts either before, if, or when it fails so you are not doing repairs to the ABC again and again.
When I got my car@ 41,000 miles & 8 years old, the ABC system was fine, but it had never been touched other than replacing the HPE in 2007. I replaced the filter, flushed it and inspected everything and all looked good except it was low on fluid at the time I bought the car. A year and a half later, the HPE hose blew in my driveway. Great timing as I pulled into my garage and shut it off immediately. Rather than just replace that hose, I replaced all 4 of the pulsation dampners and every hose that didn't look perfect (6 of them) and flushed the system again. I'm kind of **** about maintainance so I look at all the hoses a couple time a year I am optimistic that I can drive without worry for a long time.
If you can't work on it yourself you absolutely need a good shop who knows CL's or you are going to get soaked on repairs like Edmunds.com did with their CL65.
Great insight -
1. Confirm if HPE hose has been replaced since 2008 - if not replace with upgraded hose.
2. Replace all 4 pulsation dampers and possibly all hoses (6)
3. Flush the ABC system
4. ID when or if coils have been replaced with upgraded parts - if not - replace
5. ID last change of plugs - if over 50,000 miles and not done - replace
3 QUESTIONS
1 - Anything else I should add to this list?
2 - Rough idea on what to expect for cost to pay a good indy guy to do all of the above?
3 - I put aside about $300 a month for the 2000 740iL for maintenance. Is that enough for the CL65?
Find a shop with Mercedes SDS and have them run all the codes and check the pump pressure for your ABC system. Should be 180 bar. If the pump says LUK on top of it chances are its original. If it says Ixetic it's been replaced sometime after 2009. If the previous owner took proper care of the car I think you'll be fine.
Find a shop with Mercedes SDS and have them run all the codes and check the pump pressure for your ABC system. Should be 180 bar. If the pump says LUK on top of it chances are its original. If it says Ixetic it's been replaced sometime after 2009. If the previous owner took proper care of the car I think you'll be fine.
Again - awesome insight!!!!
Guys - the info you are all providing is incredibly helpful. Its like a map to the minefield of Mercedes Purchasing.
Thank you - and if you have additional tips, please pass it along.
Actually there are a lot more than 6 hoses in the ABC system. I found 6 that had oil visible on the hose. Some of them may have simply been wet from the HPE leaking, but IMO if it didn't look solid for sure I replaced it.
$300 a month might be enough if everything is good when you start.
1-HPE hose $4-500
2-Pulsation damners $12-1300
3-Miscellaneous hoses? Well the two piece hose I replaced from the pump to the first distribution block costs over $700 at my discounted price, requires evacuating the A/C system because the main A/C hose has to be disconnected from the compressor to change the ABC hose and the engine mounts have to be unbolted from the frame so the engine can be jacked up, which of course requires disconnecting a few other things.... so expect to pay at least $1200 for that hose alone. Edmunds had 1/2 of it replaced for $200 at a dealer so IMO it is dumb to only do 1/2 of it. Most of the others are easier and most of them can be fabricated by a local hydraulics shop for a fraction of the price of new MB hoses so say a hose can be as cheap as $50, just remember Petosin is around $20/ quart and every time you open up the system you are asking for new issues to crop up. ABC can go into the 5 digit price range easily.
4-Flush ABC when doing ABC repairs and it will only be an extra $1-200 or so.
5- 24plugs times $11-$20 per plug (depending on where you buy them plus a few hours of labor=$4-500
6-coils get them from Autozone and have them done with plugs so all you pay is the price for the coils so ONLY $1400
7-Bakes, if you need front rotors I have bad news for you.
That being said, if you can work on a car yourself as a comparison, I spent a little over $2000 to do 6 hoses, 4 pulsation dampners, new filter and flush the system. Plugs & one coil were under $1000. If you do more hoses/dampners/ flush at the same time the cost should be cheaper as the cost for labor should go down more is done together.
1-HPE hose $4-500
2-Pulsation damners $12-1300
3-Miscellaneous hoses? Well the two piece hose I replaced from the pump to the first distribution block costs over $700 at my discounted price, requires evacuating the A/C system because the main A/C hose has to be disconnected from the compressor to change the ABC hose and the engine mounts have to be unbolted from the frame so the engine can be jacked up, which of course requires disconnecting a few other things.... so expect to pay at least $1200 for that hose alone. Edmunds had 1/2 of it replaced for $200 at a dealer so IMO it is dumb to only do 1/2 of it. Most of the others are easier and most of them can be fabricated by a local hydraulics shop for a fraction of the price of new MB hoses so say a hose can be as cheap as $50, just remember Petosin is around $20/ quart and every time you open up the system you are asking for new issues to crop up. ABC can go into the 5 digit price range easily.
4-Flush ABC when doing ABC repairs and it will only be an extra $1-200 or so.
5- 24plugs times $11-$20 per plug (depending on where you buy them plus a few hours of labor=$4-500
6-coils get them from Autozone and have them done with plugs so all you pay is the price for the coils so ONLY $1400
7-Bakes, if you need front rotors I have bad news for you.
That being said, if you can work on a car yourself as a comparison, I spent a little over $2000 to do 6 hoses, 4 pulsation dampners, new filter and flush the system. Plugs & one coil were under $1000. If you do more hoses/dampners/ flush at the same time the cost should be cheaper as the cost for labor should go down more is done together.
#1 assumption - I will cause more damage than good by attempting to work on my own car (unless I fly up to Alaska and go through a training program with you ... but having grown up in Ft. Nelson BC, my days in the far north no longer exist)
I don't consider costs bad or good - they are just a reality of owning a vehicle. My goal is to get my expectations set as properly as possible so I can best plan for the inevitable costs. I realize that the chances of having a major breakdown with a huge expense to repair is simply the price one has to pay to enjoy a car such as a 2005 CL65. I KNOW this is going to happen someday ... so my plan is to do what ever I can to minimize those chances. After all the feedback, this is my preliminary strategy (and I am hoping you guys can poke holes into it) :
740iL BMW GUY's PRELIMINARY STRATEGY FOR SWITCHING TO 2005 CL65 AMG
1. Find 2005 or 2006 CL65 AMG cars for sale (assuming mileage to be less than 50,000)
2. ID if HPE hose and Pulsation Dampners have been replaced - if not, add $500 for Hose, $1300 for Dampners, $2,000 for other hoses (including jacking the motor up) = Round up to $5,000
3. ID if plugs have been replaced - if not, add in $1,000
4. ID if Coils have been replaced - if not, add in $1400
5. ID state of tires - % of tread used x $1600
6. ID state of brakes - % used x ? (need to id brake costs)
Take sales price of each vehicle and do the math from above (each one will be different requiring varying degrees of repair)
Assuming the pricing above is accurate (I am just going by the feedback from this post - so if you see where I am off, let me know) -
Min and Max initial investment would range from:
$0 if everything had just been replaced within the month, to
$9,000 + Brakes if everything was original but was at its very end of lifespan
ID the top 3 choices - and negotiate.
Assuming nothing has been done:
Immediately - replace HPE hose, and Dampners (preventative measure)
When mileage dictates - replace plugs, coils, brakes, tires
Continue to put $300 a month into a maintenance fund.
Assuming coils are good a plug replacement should only run $4-500 tops. Otherwise, I think you are going into the CL with the right outlook.
It may be a lot cheaper than you plan which will be great, but if not at least you understand the potential costs associated with one of these cars. There are some other common issues, like engine/trans mounts, drivers door wiring, etc. You may have some of these issues or none of them.
IMO, if you are not stressed about the cost of maintenance & repairs, it's going to be really hard to find something as special to DD as a CL65.
04-09-2015, 03:27 PM
