ABC Repair Advice, please help (boring I know)
08-31-2015, 10:37 AM
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2001 CL500, 1987 560SEC
ABC Repair Advice, please help (boring I know)
Hi guys, could really use some advice.
I have had a 2001 CL500 for 3 years. Its lowered by lowering links and has about 167000 KM on it.
Has been a great car which I really loved.
About 2 years ago the shop advised me that both front struts needed replacement which I did with rebuilt struts I found online with a 2 year warranty. I didnt have any ABC issues before then this was a shop recommendation and they showed me where the original struts were worn out so I decied to follow their advice and replace them.
About 1 year ago I got in the car and recieved the red ABC warning. I shut the car off, turned it back on and no warning. Just in case I took the car to the shop asked them to check all ABC stuff they told me they couldnt find any issues. As a precaution I asked them to drain all ABC fluid and replace with clean fluid and new filters.
About 5 months ago I noticed the car dipping on teh front left side. It was barely noticeable but the left was a bit lower than the right. I took the car to my shop and they told me the front left strut was leaking and needed to be replaced. I was still within warranty for my rebuilt strut so they gave me the cash back. Unfortunately they didnt have any more rebuilt ones so I got a factory Mercedes one, luckily I got a dealer discount through a friend but it was still very expensive.
Well I got the car back from that repair and it didnt seem to make any difference. THe front left is still dipping and it seems to be getting worse. I had to leave my car parked for 2 weeks when I was on vacation and when I got back the front left tire was up in teh wheel well. I still dont see any leaking fluid.
Anyways I took the car to a new Mercedes shop. They called me and told me that the left ABC motor sounded loud and could be bad. They said that when the motors go bad they can expel metal shavings through the system and can kill all struts. They recommended that I junk the car as the cost to repair would be too high. I know about these issues from going on this board so I asked them to drain the ABC fluid and see if it looks dirty or with metal filings in them.
They did and said fluid and filters look fine.
I have an estimate for 2k to fix the left pump with a new pump. BUT they cannot guarantee that will fix the problem (basically they dont want to take any responsibility for this kind of repair I guess). 2K I am fine to pay but if it was 5K to fix teh whole thing I would obviously junk it. Obviously I dont want to pay 2K now and another 2 or 3 K in a couple months.
What would your recommendation be?
I have had a 2001 CL500 for 3 years. Its lowered by lowering links and has about 167000 KM on it.
Has been a great car which I really loved.
About 2 years ago the shop advised me that both front struts needed replacement which I did with rebuilt struts I found online with a 2 year warranty. I didnt have any ABC issues before then this was a shop recommendation and they showed me where the original struts were worn out so I decied to follow their advice and replace them.
About 1 year ago I got in the car and recieved the red ABC warning. I shut the car off, turned it back on and no warning. Just in case I took the car to the shop asked them to check all ABC stuff they told me they couldnt find any issues. As a precaution I asked them to drain all ABC fluid and replace with clean fluid and new filters.
About 5 months ago I noticed the car dipping on teh front left side. It was barely noticeable but the left was a bit lower than the right. I took the car to my shop and they told me the front left strut was leaking and needed to be replaced. I was still within warranty for my rebuilt strut so they gave me the cash back. Unfortunately they didnt have any more rebuilt ones so I got a factory Mercedes one, luckily I got a dealer discount through a friend but it was still very expensive.
Well I got the car back from that repair and it didnt seem to make any difference. THe front left is still dipping and it seems to be getting worse. I had to leave my car parked for 2 weeks when I was on vacation and when I got back the front left tire was up in teh wheel well. I still dont see any leaking fluid.
Anyways I took the car to a new Mercedes shop. They called me and told me that the left ABC motor sounded loud and could be bad. They said that when the motors go bad they can expel metal shavings through the system and can kill all struts. They recommended that I junk the car as the cost to repair would be too high. I know about these issues from going on this board so I asked them to drain the ABC fluid and see if it looks dirty or with metal filings in them.
They did and said fluid and filters look fine.
I have an estimate for 2k to fix the left pump with a new pump. BUT they cannot guarantee that will fix the problem (basically they dont want to take any responsibility for this kind of repair I guess). 2K I am fine to pay but if it was 5K to fix teh whole thing I would obviously junk it. Obviously I dont want to pay 2K now and another 2 or 3 K in a couple months.
What would your recommendation be?
08-31-2015, 11:36 AM
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Scrap the ABC suspension and go with an aftermarket coil over conversion. ABC is a money pit. You will continue to have to throw money into it.
08-31-2015, 12:22 PM
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2001 CL500, 1987 560SEC
The problem is where I live I dont know any garages who would be willing to do it and as I understand there is no complete "kit" to do everything it involves hunting down some junked parts of old S classes, is that true?
I dont really speak the language here Im not a local so complicated work like that is almost out of the question.
If there was a complete kit I could buy to get all the parts I might consider it.
EDIT - For example is this complete - http://www.strutmasters.com/products...ion-kit-mb14f/
If I bought that it would have everything? Are there any instructional videos or manuals that I can give to a shop so they can easily do this?
I dont really speak the language here Im not a local so complicated work like that is almost out of the question.
If there was a complete kit I could buy to get all the parts I might consider it.
EDIT - For example is this complete - http://www.strutmasters.com/products...ion-kit-mb14f/
If I bought that it would have everything? Are there any instructional videos or manuals that I can give to a shop so they can easily do this?
Last edited by ChinBenz; 08-31-2015 at 12:29 PM.
08-31-2015, 12:44 PM
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Careful who you listen to (including me!). Its difficult to get the right advice with ABC. I can't help thinking you've been badly advised so far. Few people know how to diagnose and fix ABC, including dealers.
First, can you describe how the original struts were worn out? Was it mechanical, hydraulic, bushes, ball joints?
Second, if the system is showing you red lights, that means that it HAS detected a fault, so how can a garage say nothing is wrong?
When the car dips to the side, is that while its driving, or after its parked? The latter is common and benign, and is usually the result of a dirty or worn valve block (one front, one rear)
The left ABC motor? Do they mean the ABC pump? There is only one, and its one the left. Its called a tandem pump - ABC and PAS pumps in one unit. If its worn out, then it needs replacing, regardless of any other problems. 167k km is a reasonable life. If you can hear a distinct noise coming from the pump with the hood open, then its fair to assume its on its way out. Its expensive, but it generally happens to any ABC car once during its life.
It sounds like you have two problems - one serious (pump) and one benign (valve block).
Nick
First, can you describe how the original struts were worn out? Was it mechanical, hydraulic, bushes, ball joints?
Second, if the system is showing you red lights, that means that it HAS detected a fault, so how can a garage say nothing is wrong?
When the car dips to the side, is that while its driving, or after its parked? The latter is common and benign, and is usually the result of a dirty or worn valve block (one front, one rear)
The left ABC motor? Do they mean the ABC pump? There is only one, and its one the left. Its called a tandem pump - ABC and PAS pumps in one unit. If its worn out, then it needs replacing, regardless of any other problems. 167k km is a reasonable life. If you can hear a distinct noise coming from the pump with the hood open, then its fair to assume its on its way out. Its expensive, but it generally happens to any ABC car once during its life.
It sounds like you have two problems - one serious (pump) and one benign (valve block).
Nick
08-31-2015, 12:57 PM
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Careful who you listen to (including me!). Its difficult to get the right advice with ABC. I can't help thinking you've been badly advised so far. Few people know how to diagnose and fix ABC, including dealers.
First, can you describe how the original struts were worn out? Was it mechanical, hydraulic, bushes, ball joints?
Second, if the system is showing you red lights, that means that it HAS detected a fault, so how can a garage say nothing is wrong?
When the car dips to the side, is that while its driving, or after its parked? The latter is common and benign, and is usually the result of a dirty or worn valve block (one front, one rear)
The left ABC motor? Do they mean the ABC pump? There is only one, and its one the left. Its called a tandem pump - ABC and PAS pumps in one unit. If its worn out, then it needs replacing, regardless of any other problems. 167k km is a reasonable life. If you can hear a distinct noise coming from the pump with the hood open, then its fair to assume its on its way out. Its expensive, but it generally happens to any ABC car once during its life.
It sounds like you have two problems - one serious (pump) and one benign (valve block).
Nick
First, can you describe how the original struts were worn out? Was it mechanical, hydraulic, bushes, ball joints?
Second, if the system is showing you red lights, that means that it HAS detected a fault, so how can a garage say nothing is wrong?
When the car dips to the side, is that while its driving, or after its parked? The latter is common and benign, and is usually the result of a dirty or worn valve block (one front, one rear)
The left ABC motor? Do they mean the ABC pump? There is only one, and its one the left. Its called a tandem pump - ABC and PAS pumps in one unit. If its worn out, then it needs replacing, regardless of any other problems. 167k km is a reasonable life. If you can hear a distinct noise coming from the pump with the hood open, then its fair to assume its on its way out. Its expensive, but it generally happens to any ABC car once during its life.
It sounds like you have two problems - one serious (pump) and one benign (valve block).
Nick
Thanks,
Answers
First, can you describe how the original struts were worn out? Was it mechanical, hydraulic, bushes, ball joints?
Original struts were worn out I think the bushes. Basically when you jacked the car up from the frame you could see when the wheels caused the struts to drop where they connect to the top of the frame/A-arm were worn out and needed replacing.
Second, if the system is showing you red lights, that means that it HAS detected a fault, so how can a garage say nothing is wrong?
Red light only happened once a year ago and I never saw it again. I took it to the garage and they said they couldnt find an issue with the ABC system. Not sure if they pulled codes off or whatever, just what they told me and since then I never saw the warning again.
When the car dips to the side, is that while its driving, or after its parked? The latter is common and benign, and is usually the result of a dirty or worn valve block (one front, one rear)
After it is parked.
The left ABC motor? Do they mean the ABC pump? There is only one, and its one the left. Its called a tandem pump - ABC and PAS pumps in one unit. If its worn out, then it needs replacing, regardless of any other problems. 167k km is a reasonable life. If you can hear a distinct noise coming from the pump with the hood open, then its fair to assume its on its way out. Its expensive, but it generally happens to any ABC car once during its life.
Good question, sorry if I wasnt clear. It was the pump, and yes they said it was noisy. Part number A0024666001 ... ok wait I feel dumb, just googled the part number and is the Power Steering pump? How is the power steering pump working with the ABC pump? ... Ok from researching it again it is the same pump right? Wow never knew that.
What do you think would replacing the pump, changing the fluid again and the filters be an option?
Could I change the pump now and not worry about the valve block yet until the lowering problem gets worse?
As it is dropping on the front left is it clear which of the two valve blocks might need replacing/repair?
Also - if I did decide to do a coil over conversion eventually i will still need the new ABC/PS pump anyways right so I will need to fix that now if I want to keep the car no matter what I guess?
Last edited by ChinBenz; 08-31-2015 at 01:37 PM.
08-31-2015, 01:44 PM
#6
If just one wheel is dropping its probably a sticky valve block
Jnash on this forum rebuilds them you can send it to him
I think they were just guessing at the abc pump since it's still working fine for all
The other corners of the car . If the pump was bad none of the corners would work
Jnash on this forum rebuilds them you can send it to him
I think they were just guessing at the abc pump since it's still working fine for all
The other corners of the car . If the pump was bad none of the corners would work
08-31-2015, 01:46 PM
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If just one wheel is dropping its probably a sticky valve block
Jnash on this forum rebuilds them you can send it to him
I think they were just guessing at the abc pump since it's still working fine for all
The other corners of the car . If the pump was bad none of the corners would work
Jnash on this forum rebuilds them you can send it to him
I think they were just guessing at the abc pump since it's still working fine for all
The other corners of the car . If the pump was bad none of the corners would work
Right but as I understand the noisy pump means it could be going bad, but maybe hasnt gone bad yet. And as they drained the fluid and it looked clean, maybe that is a good sign but I will still need to replace the pump i guess.
Also if it is a valve block that is stuck or is bad, and I want to go with the rebuild option, am I certain that it is the front valve block that needs to be fixed as it is a problem in the front? I know there is a rear valve block I assume that is for the rear only right?
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08-31-2015, 01:52 PM
#8
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From what you say, changing the pump, fluid and filter is the best option. Just make sure that the garage has done the exact same job serveral times before. Its not straightforward.
I would change the pump ASAP, and not worry about the valve block immediately. They all leak slightly, and gradually get worse with age. Since its the front left that is dropping, that means its the front valve block that needs overhaul or replacement. A new one will be expensive, but overhaul is straightforward for a competant mechanic. Jnash on this forum may be able to repair yours quickly and cost-effectively.
There are many people who have thrown money at ABC problems, and consider it a disease to be gotten rid of at all costs. I completely disagree, and it makes me cringe and shudder when hear people talking about coil-over conversions. ABC is quite manageable if you know what you're doing and don't hide your head in the sand.
Nick
I would change the pump ASAP, and not worry about the valve block immediately. They all leak slightly, and gradually get worse with age. Since its the front left that is dropping, that means its the front valve block that needs overhaul or replacement. A new one will be expensive, but overhaul is straightforward for a competant mechanic. Jnash on this forum may be able to repair yours quickly and cost-effectively.
There are many people who have thrown money at ABC problems, and consider it a disease to be gotten rid of at all costs. I completely disagree, and it makes me cringe and shudder when hear people talking about coil-over conversions. ABC is quite manageable if you know what you're doing and don't hide your head in the sand.
Nick
08-31-2015, 02:01 PM
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Thanks Nick.
Sorry last questions,
so I would need a place to park my car and pull the front valve block. And I shoudl trust that place to put it back together when I get the repaired one back.
In the meantime after I replace the pump I guess I shoudl carefully monitor the ABC fluid levels to ensure that they never drop too much right?
Sorry last questions,
so I would need a place to park my car and pull the front valve block. And I shoudl trust that place to put it back together when I get the repaired one back.
In the meantime after I replace the pump I guess I shoudl carefully monitor the ABC fluid levels to ensure that they never drop too much right?
08-31-2015, 04:54 PM
#10
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I'd suggest a little research on the ABC valve block thing, to get some background, see how you feel about. Try googling "Mercedes ABC valve". There's a wealth of description, pictures and videos about valve block repair and rebuilds.
Nick
Nick
