MooksM275

2005 Cl65

***Edit

Never mind......
After driving around 1000 miles with the "new power", the car is back to its old slow self haha.
I guess it was a big giant coincidance that the power changed when I changed the coding.

I am now looking into other possibilities.

I have no check engine code, I have new MAP sensors new intake temp sensor, intake temps are all normal, and low power.
I am looking into clogged cats now. Exhast backpressure test, fuel pressure test...etc.

I got to get to the bottom of this.

Cheers.

Welwynnick

Well this is very intriguing, I wonder what it is that could be responsible.

Do you feel like the engine is working better, or the transmission?

I "only" have an S600, but I recognise a lot of your subjective observations. The engine ought to be a torque monster, but it rarely feels that way.

Maybe the engine is running more ignition advance? Maybe the torque converter locks up more quickly? Maybe its the throttle mapping?

I'm away on vacation at the moment, but I can't to try this when I get home.

Nick

MooksM275

The only setting I see to have made the change was the gitrieb setting in the ECU, unless I somehow had a corrupt file or something.
As for the difference I feel, the engine is more responsive, less throttle lag, more torque at low end, more hp at top end, better shifting, quicker downshift when I press throttle enough to require downshift, cruising on highway barely need to touch the accelerator pedal.

I don't think its a mere difference with mapping. I should have added this because it is also important. I drove a Cl65 2 years before I supercharged the vet and it felt really really incredible. Effortless surge of power. So I thought it was just that I got used to the Z06 power and now after owning the Z06 that the CL65 was a little behind. Now, with this fix, the car feels exactly like the one I drove before I bought the Z06. Effortless surge of power everywhere.

I dont see this as a simple "upgrade" but rather that the settings being out of synchronization somehow did not run all the right parameters and then limited power in different ways.

There is 0 lag now. The engine feels electric in its power delivery.

I can give you an example. When I had the z06 supercharged, sometime later I felt a loss slight hesitation during revving and it "seemed" slower. I took it back to the tuning company and on dyno the car was down 100whp because of a fault in the ignition. I can tell you this, the power difference I feel in my Cl65 after changing the parameters is more noticiable than when I had the Z06 fixed and it was down 100whp.


DAS XENTRY FOR TRANSMISSION:
Read coding first. Read if a vin is stored. Mine showed 000000000000000 (so it was missing)
Went to transmission>variantcoding>SCN coding>enter vin-----here, because my coding showed vin 000000000000, if I entered my actual vin, then it didn't work. So I left the 000000000000 code and hit enter, if you do it right it will take you to a screen for coding with 3 choises for variants. The codes you enter are those that are included in your VIN Datacard. I entered 805, which is the model adjustment year as reflected in my vin datacard. I did not add USA or USA CA as I wanted this synced to my european settings in the ECU. Only add codes as reflected in your VIN datacard--example Although there is an 030 AMG variant, that is not for my car and is not for in my datacard so I didn't add it.

AMG-Driver

Hmm, this sounds like a reset mode or something similar. I have made comparable expierience when the battery was off a certain time. Our cars get a little bit sluggish because of the self learning mode of the transmission. But I think it is more of a feeling of the acceleration pedal and response, i doubt that you have more power on a dyno or get better acceleration times with a reset. But it would be interesting how my EU-Model is set up in your coding what you have found.

Ahh forgot Getrieb code nicht belegt could mean transmission code not active because Getriebe means transmission in German...

MooksM275

As for the transmission code, it was a global setting as the options were USA, JAPAN, EUROPE, and then this one. I will verify the exact wording.

Its not a perception nor opinion. The car is way faster and is making more power than when I bought it. I am not saying it is making more than a stock cl65, just that mine was way down on power.
I know people will think this. I have been working on cars for 20 years. I guarantee you the car was waaayyyyyyyy down on power. Before this, even at full throttle from stop, it didn;t reeally even spin the tires much. Now, at anything above 30% throttle, the tires spin with ease. Its a big difference.

I almost didn't post because I figured that people would believe it to be a mere reset. I have reset the transmission adaptions 3 times on this car prior to this. I have reset the throttle mapping and ecu adaptions many times before. The car has had many many new parts installed. I had the engine out of the car to change various gaskets and changed turbo seals. Never, has anything affected it like this. And I will repeat, I drove a Cl65 around 4 years ago and now I can say with certainty this is how it felt. I know what a small change does. When I reset transmission adaptions before, I could definitely feel an improvement in shift quality and better throttle response when I reset ECU adaptions. But this is on another level.

The car must have been severely cutting timing. There is no other explanation. Even the exhaust note has changed. From my best guess, the waste gates were opening at full throttle creating an air rushing noise and this has changed.

Again, I only post to help others here. I do not think that resetting adaptions will help anyone in my regard. I did it prior to this and it was only minor difference each time.

Best

Dr Matt

I need to try this.

My car is down on power and I've been hearing an air rushing noise when in boost that I never had before too. I'm only making 14#'s of boost through most of a pull now and it occasionally peaks at 20, but not even every pass at the track with 109 fuel and cold intake air temps. I suspected a boost leak so I've pulled it apart and didn't find anything wrong. I even tested the blow off diaphragms by putting vacuum and boost to them and I can hear them move, and lost no pressure or vacuum when I let it sit. No codes or anything, car runs fine other than barely breaking into the 10.8's at the track last couple times, and feels sluggish.

Dr Matt

I've also been wondering if the air whistling sound had to do with replacing the TB gasket. Since you are hearing it too and we both did that mod, I'm curious if the sound changed after you did the coding? I'm still at a loss for my lower boost than I used to have though.

biker349

i am going to keep updated on this thread. thanks for the info.

AMG-Driver

Mooks, I believe you that your car was holding power back and has more power now. It is a very good findout to doublecheck to be sure you have the correct "country-settings" in your ECU/TCU. Thanks for the info.

But e.g. my car is exactly delivering the power (with a tune) that it should, so I assume my codings are correct to deliver the full power. But if i get the chance, I will doublecheck.

Maybe something went wrong at the coding for a U.S.version or one dealer has changed some settings in the car.

What is always essential in my opinion to find out that your car has full power:

Use a scan device - like Torque App and check in realtime:

-Boost
-Timing Advance
-Intake air temperature
-use new air filters every 5.000-10.000 KM
-and or doublecheck your power on a good professional dyno from time to time.

AMG-Driver

One more thought:

If Getriebe code (transmission code) of the reinforced 65 tranny is not active in the ECU/TCU settings, it would be logical, that not the full power of the engine would be sent to the transmission, maybe this was holding your power back...

MooksM275

Yes, I agree that if you feel that your car is making good power then there it is not necessary to check too deeply into this.

I also agree with your logic. Given what I felt, and knowing that the transmission ECU and Engine ECU do have a torque limiting function to protect the transmission (verified by the fact that tuning companies must provide a new TCU to match an ECU tune and the fact that the ECU sends torque information to the transmission). So its logical that if something is screwed up in the coding that the car will limit power.

I will keep everyone posted if there is any other changes.

MooksM275

No this did not affect anything for me. I have owned the car for around a year and ever since then it was the same. The air rushing noise was there before the throttle body mod and after.The air rush noise i heard was at full throttle and it sounded really loud with windows down. I would tell you if I had any reservations about the throtte body and its effects, but in this case, after I reset the ECU variant coding and synchronized everything, the car is driving fantastic.

With that said, I do think it would be good to reset the engine adaptions through DAS XENTRY as this would more quickly bring the ECU settings in line with any changes to the throttle. You could also do this to the transmission settings.
I see that you have a tune, so I dont know how variant coding would affect the tune. You might want to talk with your tuner about it. As far as the adaptions resetting, this should have zero affect on the tune.

But, you are "barrely breaking into the 10.8's" so your car is still pretty fast hahaha. I dont think my car would break 12 (maybe even not below 13) with the way it drove before. Just as a reference point. As for your boost levels, remember that our cars do not make 20+ psi all the way to redline. They peak at 20+ and then slowly lower down as the turbocharger efficiency can't make up for the speed of the turbine. That is why turbocharger compressor wheel upgrades have the potential to make our cars much faster as the area under the HP curve is dramatically increased even though the actual peak number is only 80hp or so.


Do you have xentry DAS? Its very very helpful in diagnosing these issues. You can individually select each electronic valves and see actual values for all map sensors. The system has tests for verifying that they are within spec. For example, the front two maps at the air filters can be tested and you can see even if you need new air filters.

Can you give me details on your "sluggish" feel? Mine was very very very soft off the line, sometimes couldn't even spin the tires (for a 65 bad news). Also, if I put the car in manual mode lets say for example 2nd gear, and then jammed the throttle to the floor, I could count almost 2 seconds before the boost kicked. There was a massive lag. Before I fixed this I just thought that was normal as the car was turbod. Guess I was wrong big time.

Dr Matt

Yeah, mine is nothing like yours, but I never heard the "air rushing sound" until I did the TB gasket mod. As you know, to do that mod you are basically taking it apart from the turbo to TB, hence I suspected a leak.

I know, "only 10.8's" sounds like it's running great, but..... I ran a best of 10.73 last year and a lot of passes in the 128+ mph trap speed range. I've made over 160 passes down the drag strip with my car. Since the 10.73 I have removed a couple exhaust restrictions that were right after the turbo's, added a Killer Chiller which is working excellent, gotten a more aggressive tune, and done the TB gasket. After all of that, my boost should not be on average 4# lower than it was on a pass at the track last year, nor should my ET's be slower, and my trap speed be down 2 mph.

I do have a STAR, so I can datalog with that and look for other issues, but the noise + low boost had me thinking a leak. I took it all back apart (except the TB itself) and looked for signs of a leak this weekend. Everything looked good so I reassembled with all new clamps, and drove to work in the rain this morning. I did do one hit from 70 and when WOT it was above 18#'s of boost and up over 20 briefly YAY! I was only seeing 14 most of the time before, so I think there was in fact a leak I didn't find.

Need to see how it acts once it stops raining to confirm it's fixed. Like you, I could only hear the air rushing sound with the sunroof &/or windows open, but I showered once already today and didn't want a second one while driving to work this morning, LOL. I plan to slap the drag radials on put it in Dyno mode, and go fishing once the roads dry up, after all, what better way to test it than under the conditions it was not performing in?

MooksM275

After looking at all possibilities with my issue, and the combination air rushing sound, I am sure that the computer was opening the wastgates and keeping them open. This could be the way that torque management is handled on the car. The wastegates on our cars is handled by the boost pressure control valve part 2751530159. The valve gets boost reference pressure from the intercooler nipple. The unit also controls actuation of wastegates. I replaced this, I dont know whether yours could be malfunctioning, but I would check that if I were you. Its found underneath the drivers side intercooler.

Dr Matt

Mine seems to be better now, but really haven't had the chance to follow up more. I did tailgate a Challenger Hellcat from about 80 to a little over 160 last night but couldn't pass him, so I think I'm still down on power. My car traps higher speeds than they do normally so I should have been able to move over and pass him, but I barely lifted for a fraction of a second the whole time as I didn't want to get "drafting" close to him, LOL.

Yeah, he didn't expect that. Pulled up next to him and talked, as well as you can at 75. First thing he said was "That thing is fast!" My wife, who was in the passenger seat told him to bring his to the track. Hope he does, then I can give him a proper beating in front of an audience.

PrecisionEngine

Mooks:

Thanks for the post - great find. My SL also was missing the VIN in the TCM. I was able to find it and correct through variant coding screen. It took some German translation.

Unfortunately, I could not find the screen where you discussed the other settings. can you elaborate on those? Were they in Variant coding or in the normal controller screen?

Thanks,

Pete