When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
comptronix......from what you have described, sounds like one or both of your roof's tension cables have broken and/or stretched.
After unlatching the roof's front bow, with the locking handle, the bow should be manually pushed upwards about 10" (e.g. per the owner's manual).
This releases a folding joint in the soft top frame and the purpose of the tension cables are to maintain this condition, allowing the two hydraulic top drive (a.k.a. lift) cylinders to lower the roof.
Hint: a stretched may account for your condition (e.g. needs added help to open roof, but closeness OK), while the usual symptom of a broken cable would be the front bow slamming against the window frame, upon roof close.
If you that does not resolve your issue next, I would next suspect an issue with the left or right drive hydraulic cylinders (a.k.a. lift cylinders).
Thanks for your response , today it is kind of cool outside but when I opened my top it worked perfectly, but I have noticed that the windows do not line up correctly will try a reset when it stops raining and see if that help .
i have a 2004 clk cabriolet which i bought new in september, 2003. it's been a fabulous car with various minor things needing fixing over the years but nothing major.
now, my top unlocks from the winshield but the rear locks will not disengage from the top cover and the trunk is frozen closed too.
got towed to my mercedes dealer and after a day of them finally getting the top cover open so they can diagnose the problem, they told me the problem is the hydraulic pump and i need a new one! they have to get it from new york and the cost for the pump is $2600, yikes! and their labor to install will be $1000, yikes again!
any opinions? does the price seem too high? or just about right? i have to get it repaired because i can't drive the car like it is. they did give me a 2015 c300 as a loan car for free.
sure would appreciate your thoughts. i'm in phoenix, az.
For pricing info, select your model in the left hand column, on that same page.
In addition to being a forum sponsor, if you look at any of the forum threads relating to cabrio roof problems, you'll find nothing but high praise for Top Hydraulics and the services they provide.
PS: Additionally, my understanding is that MB no longer provides new pumps/motors and the dealer replacement will likely be a rebuilt pump.
serrindipity...thank you for your response. i am totally not handy at all! and my model is a 209. it was the first new styling after the previous models of the clk320. my top is completely hydraulic/electric. nothing needs to be done by hand. i have xenon headlights. do you think the price from mercedes for the pump includes switches? they told me my switches are all fine but is it possible you have to buy more than just the pump?
and don't forget, the car is at the dealer so i'm really their prisoner now.
david......even through you posted in the W208 forum, suspected that you had a W209.
Your W209 locks or unlocks the front roof bow to the windshield with a front lock cylinder whereas in the W208, the locking/unlocking of the front bow is via a manually operated locking handle. Thereafter both the W208/W209 use a complex system of electo-mechanicals and hydraulics.
I'm not privy to trouble shooting and/or diagnosis, done by your dealership. However, I am quite taken back by the $3,600 estimate to repair (e.g. ~ half of what your 2003 W209 is worth).
From what you said in your initial post, your front bow unlocks but thereafter, neither your rear low or case cover do. BTW, what I find strange here is that your front lock cylinder, which I believe is hydraulically operated, unlocks OK.
In the W208, when the rear bow or case cover fail to unlock, in the majority of cases (e.g. 9/10+ ), it's not due to a hydraulic pump/motor failure. It's usually; low hydraulic system pressure caused by to a leaking cylinder, broken/misaligned rear bow or case cover locks, pitted contacts in motor starting relay, a broken wire in the case cover wiring harness etc..
However, since there are differences in the W208/W209 the rear bow and case cover cylinders you should search/inquire further within the W209 forum.
Additionally, at this point, all the dealer most likely did was run the STAR diagnostics and if it were me, I would get a full print out of the diagnosis and pay the fee which is typically $100, return the loaner car and get additional opinions. Unfortunately, 3+ year old MB take a huge hit on depreciation because of the high cost of maintenance and repairs and specially because at 10+ year old model usually only fetches 10% of its MSRP. Since you said that you weren't DIY handy, are there any competent/trustworthy independent MB shops in your area.
Last edited by Serndipity; 07-05-2015 at 06:28 PM.
serendipity....thank you for your comments and reply. i don't use this site very often and i don't know how to find things. i just happened upon this thread and thought i would post my question. i don't know how to find the 209 thread.
my car is not driveable. there are so many things taken apart, like the whole inside of the trunk and since the top is neither up or down, i don't it's ok to drive it like that.
i love this car and always intended to keep it until it doesn't run anymore. i don't like the $3600 expense. i think it's outrageous but what can i do? just pay it. my car has never been to any other place for service other than my mercedes dealer. they usually treat me very fairly and honestly so i have to trust them. unfortunatly going somewhere else is not an option for me, but i appreciate what you're telling me.
serendipity.....thank you very much for telling me about klaus.
here's what happened today. i spoke to klaus about my pump. he recommended i take my car to an independent german repair shop but i didn't think my car was driveable. i called my mercedes dealer representative and told him the whole story about mb world and klaus. i asked him if he would pack my pump and send it to klaus to rebuild it and then put the pump back in my car. he said yes he could do that and if that's what i wanted done, he would do it. so, i got the best of both worlds. my dealer was terrific about sending the pump to klaus and klaus has a new customer. klaus was really surprised my dealer would agree to do this but he will have my pump tomorrow and hopefully ship it back to my dealer on wednesday. and i will have saved $2000 thanks to you!
Continuous illumination, when the man switch is not pressed, indicates that the soft top compartment cover '''''''OR THE SOFT TOP''''''' has not properly locked.
You're also getting the flashing lamp, while the vehicle is being operated, which also indicates that the soft top has not been locked to the window frame.
The controller knows if the soft top has been properly locked via switch S84/11. Therefore, when you physically unlock the roof, from the frame with the handle, your windows do not lower because the controller is still waiting to receive the last step required of the roof being closed and locked sequence. In order words, the controller will not perform the first step in opening the roof (e.g. roll down all the windows), until it know that the last step in closing the roof has been performed (e.g. closing and locking the roof to the window frame).
Additionally, you previously said that after unlatching the locking handle, if you open the windows using the window switches on the center console, your roof opens and closes normally. This means that the controller and fuse in circuit 30 is not the problem.
While the problem can due to a faulty switch, faulty wiring connection, a very common problem has been that the switch or locking handle is loose and out of adjustment.
From the link I provided in my prior note, the removal of the panel required to access and inspect switch 84/11, is very simple.
Posting your findings, will be most welcomed, as it will help with the capacity and ability of this thread, to help find and repair problems with the CLK series power roof.
I am still having the same problem with the switch, I disassembled the S84/11 switch and it seemed t work, though I did not check continuity with a meter. I have had 2 Mercedes mechanics look at it and they cannot come up with a god diagnostics. Right now they want to test the control module to see if the unit was damaged when mechanics fixed a crash on the driver's door. The mechanics did not find any faults on the test system connected to check the soft top operation.
I am still convinced it is the S84/11 switch or its cable going back to the module.
I may check the connector at the control module to see if there is continuity to the switch and check the functionality (open/close circuit).
The following thread has a lot of info related to the W208 convertible window operation, that you may find useful to further troubleshoot your problem.
so I've tried almost everything to get my top to work properly except one..
which is the one thing that i don't know!
i even found the same car and convinced the dude to let me take apart his car to test out his n-52 computer in mine!
i was convinced its my computer that went bad but its not the case. for example for the sequence to start i have to manually disconnect the rear bow switch.. then the top goes up half way.. until i have to assist it all the way.. then i have to reconnect the rear bow and the rest will work with the button.
to close i have to manually pop the bow... loosen the screw and bring the top all the way up then tighten the screw and the rear glass and bow will shut with the button!
simple question moment...
how many triggers are able to be bypassed indefinitely and what triggers send sequence signals.
i have a feeling if i replace all triggers i can solve this as it seems like its something thats not always shorting only sometimes.
also are there any buss connections on the floor because there was a fair bit of water under the car one winter.
clk soft top light blinking while in closed position/ no trunk lid
hi,
just wanted to thank Klaus for all his help.
i have had trouble with soft top switch red light staying on while top was up, and flashing while driving. After reading this post i went and checked rear bow locks and wires at hinge area and found that the wires were both broken in that area, i removed tie wire clamp and reconnected the wires and all is as it should be now.
Thanks So Much!!!!!!!!!!
03 SL Kleemann, 97 SL320 pano top, 95 Lorinser E320 Cabrio, Ferrari 360, Tesla X
Originally Posted by anthonycrolley
hi,
just wanted to thank Klaus for all his help.
i have had trouble with soft top switch red light staying on while top was up, and flashing while driving. After reading this post i went and checked rear bow locks and wires at hinge area and found that the wires were both broken in that area, i removed tie wire clamp and reconnected the wires and all is as it should be now.
Thanks So Much!!!!!!!!!!
anthonycrolley,
welcome to the forum, and thanks for following up. I can see that you took the time to register on the forum, just to create this post. That's awesome, thank you very much for encouraging others with a successful DIY report.
The rear bow lock wiring has been covered around post #80 in this thread.
I'm looking for the location of the N52 controler. I didn't find it yet. Is it located in the trunk? Left or right side? I want to troobleshoot all the limitswitch of the soft roof. Roof is working fine when opening, but nothing happend when I hit the switch to close the roof. Only the red led flashing and error message in the dash telling to go to the garage.
cailleute......I think you posted in the wrong forum.
Access to the N52 RB/Power Roof Controller, for the W208 CLK, is via the trunk, but first you'll have to remove the sub-floor panel above the spare tire, the rear wall carpeting and then unbolt a metal panel.
It's located on the passenger side, as shown in the enclosed picture.
Last edited by Serndipity; 03-24-2016 at 02:49 PM.
You are right Serndipity, I just see I'm in the W208 forum and not W209. But I have to thank you for your information, the controller I'm looking for is located at the same place on both model. This information will help me to continue my soft top troobleshooting.
B1000 code, N52 module defective (says the dealer)
I have a 2000 CLK430 (W208). I took my car to my local MB dealer and asked them to track down a leak that causes the front passenger footwell to fill with water during a heavy rain unless I park the car with the nose uphill. I also told them that to open my top, they will need to unlatch it, activate the open switch, and push the top up manually by hand because the right hand cylinder is leaking and the right hand cable has come out of it's fitting. OK, so they told me they couldn't get the top to open and that they ran a diagnostic and found code B1000 which means the N52 control needs to be replaced ($1080). I told them the controller works fine, the top goes up and down, you just have to help it up like I told them.
After the dealer service visit, I opened the top as usual and it opened and closed without issue other than the helping had I have to give it. In my book, this means the N52 controller is not defective. I looked in these forums and found that the B1000 code means "HRA Headlamp range adjustment: Supply voltage of the control unit is too low (undervoltage)" in the master set of codes that are on the Mercedes Error Codes page. Is that page correct in the definition of the B1000 code or is the set of codes on that page not applicable to my W208 Cabrio?
Any thoughts on why the dealer would tell me the N52 controller is defective and needs to be replaced?
Frankly, IMHO, your troubleshooting and diagnosis is clearly head and shoulders above what the dealer tech provided.
In regard to the B1000 diagnostic trouble code.
While this does suggest the possibility within the 'Fault in roll bar (RB) , power soft top control (N52) module' , it is far from conclusive.
Given that this was the only fault code, what the tech should have done next, is check specific pins on the 55 pin N52 connector for voltages. If the voltages were out of range (between 11 and 14 volts) or not not present, based on this, the next troubleshooting steps to undertake/resolve would follow (e.g fault in wiring, ground or a connector).
Additionally, the N52 controller has numerous inputs and outputs (e.g. from the various limit/position switches to solenoids within the value blocks or motors to lower the rear windows etc.) and a competent tech should be able to test each and every one of the with a simple multi-meter (e.g. capable of reading voltage and/or ohms).
When the power roof malfunctions, in addition to a B1000 fault code, there would be additional codes registered, if the problem was electrical. Basically, the function of the N52 controller can be fully checked by taking either voltage or resistance readings at the 55 pin connector (which would identify issues within the wiring harnesses, grounds, motor relay etc.).
At this point, you have identified a leak in your passenger side lift cylinder.
Thanks for the welcome! I've been a member since December 2012. I joined shortly after I bought my CLK430.
I have replaced the hydraulic roll bar valve in October 2013 since it developed a leak. I used a rebuilt valve from Klaus and it's been working great for the past few years. Klaus has been super helpful and his workmanship is top notch. Now that the right top cylinder is leaking, I'm going to get a set of rebuilt cylinders from Klaus (most likely send him mine and have him rebuild them) and spend a weekend with my buddy replacing all the cylinders. My right hand tension cable also came out of the connector and I need to figure out how to fix that. It doesn't look like it snapped, it looks like it just came out of whatever it connects to. I have a sailboat and am very familiar with doing my own rigging, so I am approaching this as a rigging problem ;-) While I have everything apart, I'll look at both tension cables.
I am able to raise my top by helping it up on the initial part of the raise, and it comes back down by itself and as long as I catch it before it hits the top of the windshield frame, it doesn't bang. There is no sense that any of the electromechanical systems are not functioning properly - the controller seems to properly sequence all the solenoids, the pump is strong, and, I'm assuming all the limit and movement switches are operating properly otherwise I'd get the blinking roof switch error code.
Have a look at the portion of the service invoice that talks about the B1000 code, and the charge for the hydraulic fluid (which I am contesting because when I go the car back, the fluid level was below the lower fill line.
I sent written instructions to my service advisor before they even started work on the car to tell her to tell the service techs that my cylinder is leaking, the tension cable is disconnected, and you can open the roof by helping it up with your hand. So, the B1000 code and the note that "the roof was inoperable" leads me to believe that the service techs either didn't get my note or they ignored it. I am escaping this with the dealership since they wanted to charge me over $1000 for a new top controller when, in fact, my controller works fine (as evidenced by the numerous times I raised and lowered my top over the past week).
I think the controller is fine, it's the service department that is exhibiting a B1000 error ;-)
What do the tension cables actually do, and why do they come out of wherever they are supposed to be clamped in to?
Oh another mystery. There is a thread on this forum that lists all the Mercedes codes from 1996 and later. The B1000 code is listed as: B1000 HRA Headlamp range adjustment: Supply voltage of the control unit is too low (undervoltage) and there is no listing for the N52 module. Any idea about that?
[[[[[Oh another mystery. There is a thread on this forum that lists all the Mercedes codes from 1996 and later. The B1000 code is listed as: B1000 HRA Headlamp range adjustment: Supply voltage of the control unit is too low (undervoltage) and there is no listing for the N52 module. Any idea about that?]]]]]
The body codes in that thread are specific to the c32/c55 model. When the MB SDS is used to diagnose the CLK convertible (a.k.a. A208), the B1000 diagnostic trouble code are different and much more numerous.
The B1000 code for the A208, is described as a "Fault in roll bar (RB), power soft top control (N52) module".
While this does suggest the possibility that your N52 controller is faulty, it is far from conclusive.
Given that this was the only fault code, the suggested MB troubleshooting procedure would be to check for specific voltage conditions at the 55 pin N52 connector. If the voltages are out of range (e.g. not between 11 and 14 volts) or not present, using the electrical wiring diagram, additional troubleshooting steps for circuits 30 and 31 are necessary to resolve the problem (e.g. faulty wiring, grounding etc.).
During operation of the power roof, the N52 controller evaluates numerous inputs/outputs/CANBus conditions (see enclosed diagram). When the power roof malfunctions, there would typically be additional fault codes stored, that help pinpoint the specific malfunction.
Basically, the operation of the N52 controller can be fully checked, using a simple multi-meter (e.g. capable of reading voltage and resistance ohms), at the 55 pin connector (e.g. where all required inputs/outputs are present). Proceeding in this manner will determine if the fault is caused by wiring/grounds or a malfunctioning component.
[[[[[I think the controller is fine, it's the service department that is exhibiting a B1000 error ;-)]]]]]
At this time, I would not replace the N52 controller. Other then having to manually push up the front bow, when opening the roof, it seems to be fully functional. I believe the B1000 fault stored, only because the power roof failed to fully operate on its own. That said, the controller also has some watch dog timers that shut down the controller, to prevent electrical motor from running to long and over heating (e.g. rear window, hydraulic pump motors).
[[[[[What do the tension cables actually do, and why do they come out of wherever they are supposed to be clamped in to?]]]]]
The pair of tension cables (e.g. left and right side), are attached between the rear and front bows.
When the roof is closed, the folding joints, of the roof's framework, will butt together, in line. When you pull down the front bow to lock it to the windshield frame, due to the length of cables, a tension is created between the rear and front bows.
When the roof is opened, upon manually turning the locking handle, this tension will cause the front bow to raise about 10". This is key because, when this occurs the roof framework joints also open up (begin to unfold), allowing the lift cylinders to fully unfold the roof. When the cables break or stretch, the joint will remain closed and further operation of the power roof will stall. However, when you pushed the front bow up with your hand, you forced the joints to unfold. A thumbnail is enclosed that shows how the joint should properly unfold.
The reason I asked you "how you determined that the passenger lift cylinder was leaking" was because I did not know if you took the stalling of the roof as being due to faulty lift cylinder or were not already familiar with the superb rebuild services and DIY instructionals provided by Klaus at Top Hydraulics. Apparently, you have already visually verified the cause of the hydraulic fluid leakage.
I suspect that the dealer tech wanted to open the roof to check the condition of all of the rubber moldings/seals but, didn't notice the lack of tension or know the trick of how to manually help the joints unfold.
Water leaks are a PITA to diagnose (a leak here shows up there). Usually the best method is spraying an area with a garden hose, followed by careful inspection.
I'm not sure if this was a refinement on your 2000MY, but to further decrease wind and water leakage, on my 2001MY, the windows actually roll upward into a channel in the rubber frame molding. If my windows are closed, when I open the door, the windows immediately drop a half inch, to allow release from the grove, providing the needed clearance for the door to open.
Last edited by Serndipity; 04-03-2016 at 03:33 PM.
Did you ever get a fix for this problem as I have exactly same problem on my CLK-208 (2001 Y reg).
The roll bar light switch (S83) blinks until I turn the engine on fully and go through at least one up/down cycle. I have determined that this is probably what is stopping my soft top from working automatically as it also keeps the soft top light switch (S84) permanently lit.
1. FUSES
First thing (simplest) I checked was the fuses...there are 3 fuses related to the soft top operation:
Boot Fuse Block F4 - Fuse 11 - 15A - Provides power to N52 Soft Top controller
Ditto - Fuse 13 - 40A - Powers & protects hydraulic pump motor for soft top
Engine Fuse Block F1 - Fuse 15 - 5A - Also provides power to the ST controller (N52)
These were all OK.
2. Hydraulic Unit Components
Next I checked all the pistons and rods and there are no hydraulic leaks plus the hydraulic reservoir level is normal. The pumps and motors also all seem to be working fine with correct fluid levels and the whole open/close sequences works fine on manual...although red light (S84) never goes out. The Roll Bar/Head Rests also work fine operated through the S83 switch.
Here is a list of all the components checked, their location and their part numbers for other members:
Switchable check valve for manual ops Behind rear seats a 001* OK
Roll bar hydraulic unit (power soft top) Ditto A7/5 001* OK
Hydraulic unit relay Ditto A7/5k1 001* OK
Motor Ditto A7/5m1 001* OK
Power soft top control module Ditto N52 001* ??
Soft top control block (7 connections) Ditto Y56/2 001* OK
There is a good article here in the forums on how to access this and all other ST related units by removing boot carpets and linings and the metal angled panel covering the hydraulic unit...it is honestly not rocket science if I can do it and should only take a few hours to completely strip and then get working...but try not to lose any of the nuts and bolts and cover pins.....about 30-40 in all.:
As none of the fuses or hydraulics seemed to be out of order I then I took it to an Indie who charged me £35 to put it on their star diagnostics and was amazed that it came back with no error codes. We presumed it was simply a faulty switch and that the N52 Soft Top Control Module must be working normally but simply getting a false signal from somewhere...but where?
As far as I can see the only causes I have left to check are the limit switches themselves:
3. SWITCHES
I have tested the following switches with a voltmeter according to the voltages I found in as the MB blogs/forum quote them as the most usual culprits for the N52 soft top controller getting a false signal...
Switch Description Position Part # Qty Status
S83 - RB manual ops & indicator switch UCP to left 1 Blinking Red
S83/5 - RB extended limit switch LHS RB ram to top 1 ?
S83/6 - RB retracted limit switch LHS RB ram to bottom 1 ?
S84 - ST open/close & indicator switch LCP left of gear stick 1 Constant Red
S84/5 - ST compartment cover open switch RHS boot hinge end A 208 820 22 10 1 OK
S84/11 - ST locked limit switch Front passenger roof lock 1 OK
S84/13 - ST open/close train limit switch LHS of A 208 820 24 10 1 OK
S84/15 - ST fabric bow up/down limit switch Under LHS fabric bow towards rear A 208 820 23 10 1 OK
S84/16 - ST bow locked limit switch Under middle of metal bow lock 1 OK
S69/10 - Luggage cover engaged limit switch Luggage cover RHS track end 1 OK
A25S1 - Bow Cover open/closed switch Bow locking point A 129 821 11 51 1 OK
A25S2 - Bow Cover locked switch Bow locking point A 129 821 12 51 1 OK
To be honest, the switches marked OK have only been checked for voltage and resistance at the switch end because I do not have the 126 pin socket box (Part # 129 589 00 21 00) or test cable (part # 104 589 00 63 00) to check the N52 module end in the boot. So I have two questions remaining for the forum:
1. Does anyone know where I could borrow these parts from to check the switches from the N52 end;
2. Alternatively , is there an Indie out there who would be willing to check S83/5 and S83/6 for me and order and replace if necessary?
3. Is it possible to check these switches (especially S83/5&6) by applying a volt/ohm meter across the N52 unit without a test cable and 126 pin socket box
Just another couple of points on the above as no-one has responded yet:
1. Having just thought that after the roof lock is opened and the windows go down, the next part of the signal process should be a window limit switch to tell the control module N52 that the windows are down before the roll bars are activated. Hence, having diagnosed the toll bar limit switch as the problem, it is perhaps more relevant to check the power windows limit switches first as I have been doing a lot of work on the drivers side window which over and under shoots intermittently when closing.....I had to re-rivet the winder mechanism as the rivets sheered when the window got stuck after and accident about 10 years ago and I have had problems with this window ever since. Unfortunately I cannot see anything on this wonderful thread about window limit switches. Does anyone know the designation and location of these switches....I canot even find which pin they connect to on the N52 module....but surely they must;
2. Is it possible to test all the limit switches by disconnecting the N52 module and applying a voltmeter/ohmeter and auto power probe to the end of the cable disconnected from the module. I have a copy of Chapter 11.5 Cabriolet Soft Top (CST) , Roll Bar (RB) from a MB diagnostic manual I found on a Belgian website (attached) if anyone is interested. It gives all the Diagnostic Test Codes, Switch Locations, N52 pin designations and a complete electrical test program with required values (most of which already appears on this thread in bits and pieces but here it all is in one place).
05-21-2015, 06:51 PM
and flashing while driving. After reading this post i went and checked rear bow locks and wires at hinge area and found that the wires were both broken in that area, i removed tie wire clamp and reconnected the wires and all is as it should be now.
