Yidney

Just happened to come across this issue in another forum today - E55 maybe - anyway, the problem always seems to be Forgstar related. People say that Forgstars are not hubcentric, and the people affected did not use the adapters to make them fit the hub, thus putting all the load on the bolts.

DanielFD

i suspect thats the problem too, take a picture of the rim from the inside and measure the inside bore.

Eojj

I thought about doing that since everything seems to be pointing towards the cheap bolts i was supplied with. Not sure how much of a case I would have though since there are a handful of factors which might cause something like this to happen.

Eojj

My wheels did come with center rings which should make it fit the hub correctly. I definitely had them installed before this incident. Unless the center ring wasn't the correct size or is there another adapter you're referring to? Funny thing is, when I purchased these wheels I was told that it would not need hub rings at all, and that it would fit perfectly. When I received the wheels almost 3 months later, they came with hub rings... Smh! I know a lot of us has forgestar wheels, so hopefully this thread could help others. If anyone else comes across an issue like this please PM me, perhaps we could make some noise about these cheap *** bolts that comes with our >2k set of wheels. Even worse, Ive heard higher quality vendors such as HRE supplied cheap chrome bolts for a short span of time too.

Yidney

The center ring is what I was referring to. You should confirm they are the correct size. If they are, then I still suspect they were too tight. I think a lot of people still use the "tight as possible" spec for wheel bolts. You often see news stories about how much under-inflated the average car tire is. I bet you could do a story on how much over-torqued the average wheel bolt is.

floridawriter

Cheap insurance.

megacrazy

Wow that sucks. I have had the same issues with a variety of bolts and I'm also running F14's.

There is nothing wrong with the wheels and I am running them with hub-centric bolts. I also torque them meticulously every time I put them on. The bolts that came with the wheels are pretty cheap, I believe. When I took them off to replace them, 1 was halfway snapped, 2 cracked and sheared off as I was taking them off. All the problems happened in the rear. No issues with the front ones so far.

Before you go running to OTIS and tell everyone how good they are, they're not. I've had 2 of their bolts shear off, just like the cheap Chinese ones, when I was taking a wheel off.

My advice is to routinely check the bolts and make sure they're ok to drive on. You really can't be sure what you're getting anymore nowadays with the huge influx of cheap Chinese garbage.

floridawriter

I sent your negative review of RAD bolts to Otis. I use two sets of Otis supplied RAD bolts based on which spacers I'm running, as well as two sets of wheel lug bolt locks also RAD. I've had no issues with them. I meticulously torque them to 81 ft lbs, and lightly grease the threads before torquing. Sorry you had a problem but I don't think it is at all typical.

megacrazy

Yup, which is why I bought them after reading the positive reviews. I can only attest to what happened with mine. They only survived 1 winter basically.

I bought a set of ebay bolts now...and I'm keeping a close eye on them. Let's see what happens

floridawriter

Just received this reply from Otis:
Otis Inc. LA®
3:49 PM (3 minutes ago)

to me
David,
Thanks for the heads up. The link was not good. However, what you find id that there are always detractors. In all of our years of selling RAD (the best made fasteners in the world) the ONLY time a bolt has had a head snap off is when the bolt was too short for the application and during the torquing process what happens is the bolt gets stretched. Once a bolt gets streched no matter what bolt it is it weakens and the head MAY snap off.

Thank you for the heads up and we appreciate the email and your continued support and flag waving for our brand! Thank you!

Phil

megacrazy

Eh, the bolts were the correct size and weren't overtorqued. I have 4 torque wrenches and they're all calibrated

Anyway, the bolts snapped while I was taking them off. They weren't seized in the hub either, at least not particularly bad, because I removed the piece that was stuck inside the hub fairly easily without any tools.

So, new bolts from them, install, wheels stay on from summer until spring, 2 shear off while removing wheels to replace the bolts.

I find it's strange that it's only happening in the back Maybe salt and corrosion has something to do with it.

Eojj

Well i'm glad to hear a different perspective. I'm still waiting for my RAD bolts and have no idea about their quality besides the reviews commented. I also took it as a plus that they deal mainly with bolts and are subsequently knowledgeable about the matter. I guess I will know about it soon enough.

Just wondering, do you take hard corners? when i had this issue, i took a right turn going down an exit ramp at 60mph... I do this almost every corner in sight and hit the same hard turn every morning on my commute to work. It's quite sad to say, but maybe i'm driving this car too hard? I'm almost afraid to drive her hard once i get new bolts on... makes my pss9's pointless.

floridawriter

No idea about quality - All RAD lug bolts, lug nuts and wheel locks are forged from tempered steel at 10.9 or 10 strength rating in compliance with SPC, FMEA, CPI and DIN, Deutsches Institut für Normung, the German Institute of Standards, the toughest quality standards in the world. RAD supplies lug bolts directly to Mercedes. Every single piece manufactured, meaning every bolt and nut and locking bolt is individually inspected and xrayed. I hae no relationship with RAD or OtisLA, but I do appreciate high quality and pride in craftsmanship. This is a second email from Phil at Otis:
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Otis Inc. LA®
4:09 PM (2 hours ago)

to me
Thanks David. If the customer had contacted us we would have been more than happy to discuss his particular application with him to insure he had the correct part for his setup. I wonder why we did not hear from him.

Like I mentioned, a bolt that is too short will create a situation where the bolt is "stretched" and weakened. This is the ONLY time we have ever seen a RAD bolt snap. A bolt that is too short will snap regardless of material or manufacturer. Just as an FYI, RAD has been a supplier of OEM Mercedes bolts in the past and there is no way they would have been if the part was inferior. EVERY SINGLE bolt is inspected and xrayed before shipment. Not a spot check. EVERY SINGLE bolt. We have been the U.S. distributor for RAD for over 12 years and are proud to supply our customers with the best fastener made in the world.

Again, thank you for the heads up, and, to anyone that reads this (if you post this to MB World) please call or email us if you have ANY questions regarding fitment. We are always available and will always do our best to help.

Phil


Fine European made lug bolts, lug nuts & wheel accessories

megacrazy

I don't drive the car hard and I don't think you should even have to worry about that. I am not sure what bolts you had before, what length etc. Your issue will probably be solved with new bolts. What specs are the bolts you got?

As far, as RAD bolts and OTIS...bolts will snap. I have never heard of quality control that's 100% efficient, even if they xray every single bolt. German quality is myth that circulates this forum frequently. It's just that...a myth. Yes, they have standards for manufacturing which looks good on paper but in practice it translates into stuff like destroyed control arm bushings at 30k miles, snapped serpentine belts at 15k miles, leaky valve covers at 15k miles and other BS that shouldn't happen.

I am not interested in getting in touch with them because they'll suggest a replacement which is not worth the hassle for 20$. They have already suggested that the bolts may be too short. If they're any longer they may interfere with the parking brake so I'm not sure that's the issue. In the end it'll probably come down to me not torquing them properly which again, is not the case. So no, I am not interested in a discussion with them. I will simply try different bolts.

I've been running a different set of bolts (same specs) for 3 months now. Let's see what happens...like I said, I am keeping a close eye on them . Hopefully it's not a wheel related issue because there are quite a few reports of failed bolts with the F14's....which is strange.

floridawriter

To make such totally unfounded accusations about German quality, and to blindly insist that you know more than RAD when it comes to lug bolts and zero defect manufacturing, to blindly throw out these statements so you're right and no else is, just proves why you are sheering off lug bolts in the first place. Good luck with whatever solution you find but don't pollute the forum with unfounded and unproved accusations.

megacrazy

I think the fact that you follow statements about a product you're supposedly unaffiliated with so closely proves a lot about your character. The fact that I had some wheel bolts fail on me, says nothing about mine.

I will find a solution no worries. I'll rely on my German quality of thinking, seeing how I grew up in the area

I will update with the status of the eBay bolts in a couple of months. Let's see what happens when they do better than stuff made in Germany. Unpossible!!!

Eojj

I have 12x1.5 cone seated lug bolts, the shank length is 23mm. This is roughly the same spec as the ones i had before. They are surprisingly shorter than my OEM bolts. I measured the oem bolts with oem wheels and they stuck out roughly 17/18mm from the back. My forgestars with the 23mm lug bolt also sticks out about 17mm from the back as well. This makes me wonder, even though the bolts are the correct length - is it possible a shorter bolt is less strong compared to a longer one? Do you remember how long your bolts are?

Yidney

I feel quite sure the length does not make a difference as long as both are the correct length. Your post is a bit confusing because you seem to be saying the OEM bolts are shorter, but the OEM did not break, right? Anyway, this whole thing is rather odd to me. I think we can assume that multiple wheel bolt breakage is a statistically rare occurrence, whether we are talking about Chinese ebay bolts or the incredibly perfect-in-every-way (but ugly) bolts that floridawriter has some fanatical obsession about. But yet Forgestar seems to show up as a common theme more than simple chance would seem to dictate. That's odd.

Fatz

There is some "safe" number of turns you should be able to make on the bolt from start to recommended torque. If the length of OE bolts through the OE wheels they came with is equal to the length of the aftermarket bolts on your aftermarket wheels (ensuring the bolt seats is pressed against the wheels), the length should be correct for the car.

The actual length of the bolt required for OE vs after market is dependent on the wheel structure. The amount of material between the point where the bolt seat makes contact with the wheel and the hub. A longer bolt, with the same number of threads into the hub and seated in the wheel as with OE, should be just as effective since it bears little load if all else is as it should be.

Since the OE wheels are hub centric and it is the hub that bears the weight, the bolts are there to just keep the wheel on the hub and carry very little to none of the load. IMO, for multiple bolts to break 1. the wheel is not loading the hub as designed (no or improper centering ring), or 2. the bolts where not torqued properly and allowed the wheel to move away from the hub or the bolts fracture from over-torque, or 3. one would have had several bad bolts (perhaps from a bad manufacturer's lot).

Eojj

RAD Bolts came in today (on the left). Not the prettiest, I might consider getting covers. The chrome bolt on the right is the one that came with my forgestars. The chrome ones look smaller but the shank length is exactly the same. Hope these holds up.

Yidney

Those cone angles look different. Those are some seriously ugly bolts. Do they have the size stamped in the head where it's visible too? Won't be buying those. Putting caps on adds a whole extra step to taking the wheel off and a new tool to keep track of.

Eojj

There is some kind of etching on the head but i can't make out what it is. Maybe its the size. The cone seats are slightly bigger on the RAD bolts but overall everything else is the same dimension. Maybe i'll plasti-dip these bad boys lol..

kb24forlife24

I just had the same issue yesterday Eojj. My car had some vibration (above 50 MPH) during my morning commute but I didn't think anything of it.

On the way back a few hours later, I was going under 65 MPH on the freeway and I hit a small road imperfection and bam! My right rear wheel slams down and my RPMs started fluctuating between 1500 and 2000 for a reason I don't know why.

When the shop looked at it, they saw all 5 bolts snapped in half and he other half was stuck in the hub. The other wheel also had a few bolts cracked but it was still on. I'm scared to drive the car...

DanielFD

Damn. what the hell is going on. Glad nothing more serious happened. Now I'm obsessing about my bolts..

kb24forlife24

Yeah man I'm really scared to drive the car lol. My Escalade's fuel pump broke down on me at the airport a couple weeks ago too! Not a good few weeks for me.