w208 amg valve spring
09-07-2014, 10:41 PM
#1
w208 amg valve spring
does w208 amg have beehive type valve springs or just normal single spring? I know newer na 55 got double valve springs and was thinking if it's worth changing to them. maybe this is why newer NA 55 rev upto 6700 and w208 only to 6000?
how about cams! What are best for NA? Anyone with experience using schrick? I know about slr/kleemann/pte but are they better for NA engines than schrick? See link below on schrick cams:
http://www.bar-tek-tuning.com/Merced...ICK+V8+256.htm
how about cams! What are best for NA? Anyone with experience using schrick? I know about slr/kleemann/pte but are they better for NA engines than schrick? See link below on schrick cams:
http://www.bar-tek-tuning.com/Merced...ICK+V8+256.htm
09-30-2014, 01:46 PM
#4
yeah thinking of going with double springs + Ti retainers when I get some work done on heads... are the single springs beehive type?
on the cams, there is very little info really on them but seems like schrick, Kleemann, and slr have similar if not same profile. pte/vrp cams are most aggressive but might have rough idle
on the cams, there is very little info really on them but seems like schrick, Kleemann, and slr have similar if not same profile. pte/vrp cams are most aggressive but might have rough idle
10-01-2014, 11:49 AM
#5
Out Of Control!!
yeah thinking of going with double springs + Ti retainers when I get some work done on heads... are the single springs beehive type?
on the cams, there is very little info really on them but seems like schrick, Kleemann, and slr have similar if not same profile. pte/vrp cams are most aggressive but might have rough idle
on the cams, there is very little info really on them but seems like schrick, Kleemann, and slr have similar if not same profile. pte/vrp cams are most aggressive but might have rough idle
I had PTE cams in my E55 and CLK55. Sold them both and with I didn't. They have the most agressive profile available but I did hear about some people having idle issues. I personally like lope
10-01-2014, 12:56 PM
#6
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2002 CLK 55 AMG cabriolet Eurocharged
I don't believe a bee hive spring will give any performance enhancement unless the smaller windings are meant for use as a dampener spring. The abilities of the larger coil will be limited.
The spring pressures should match or exceed maximum RPM limitations of the cam profile.
If you select a camshaft that provides Max HP @ 8K RPM for instance. The spring compressed valve return pressure had better hold. For example Single/ Dampner 5k rpm, Double 6-7k rpm or triple battleship springs 8-10k rpm.
Never applied to the Benz but law is law, we work within our limitations.
Feel free to correct me but beehive is a poor long term design unless you want to disable cylinders for mileage or something.
hydraulic lifters should be added into this mix as well, not real warriors after about 6k rpm
Gator
The spring pressures should match or exceed maximum RPM limitations of the cam profile.
If you select a camshaft that provides Max HP @ 8K RPM for instance. The spring compressed valve return pressure had better hold. For example Single/ Dampner 5k rpm, Double 6-7k rpm or triple battleship springs 8-10k rpm.
Never applied to the Benz but law is law, we work within our limitations.
Feel free to correct me but beehive is a poor long term design unless you want to disable cylinders for mileage or something.
hydraulic lifters should be added into this mix as well, not real warriors after about 6k rpm
Gator
Last edited by GatorMB; 10-01-2014 at 01:14 PM. Reason: added content
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10-10-2014, 11:41 AM
#8
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Thanks Chadzu,
The proof is in the print, I am not surprised the bee hive would show up here.
They had to squash 3 valves into the cylinder which reduces the mass of each valve. The less mass so to speak requires less spring pressure to accomplish RPM factors of camshaft profiling.
We can get away with more rpm and less valve float with the use of the roller rocker arms on a rocker shaft as shown above.
You have to remember I am an old woody when pushrod NA V8 were rocking 10's and it took some $ to keep it reliable.
This engine (M113) reminds me of a smaller version ford FE in many ways and has some qualities of 427 GT40, sodium filled valves with mechanical (solid) tappet cam were high revving cheats from the factory in the 60's.
Today it is done with aluminum blocks, heads, computers and racing heritage.
I hate advise on this engine as I have not disassembled one yet for inspection, but if we want to improve hp with RPM then lightening the valves might do it, Stainless steel, Titanium were very popular valve materials, Hence can the valve seats take the stress?
The four valve head might be a quick improvement but are they compatible. I heard the four valve engine does not go back together once disassembled (quote)from a dealer source.
I am open for criticism and facts, no worries.
Cheers, Gator
The proof is in the print, I am not surprised the bee hive would show up here.
They had to squash 3 valves into the cylinder which reduces the mass of each valve. The less mass so to speak requires less spring pressure to accomplish RPM factors of camshaft profiling.
We can get away with more rpm and less valve float with the use of the roller rocker arms on a rocker shaft as shown above.
You have to remember I am an old woody when pushrod NA V8 were rocking 10's and it took some $ to keep it reliable.
This engine (M113) reminds me of a smaller version ford FE in many ways and has some qualities of 427 GT40, sodium filled valves with mechanical (solid) tappet cam were high revving cheats from the factory in the 60's.
Today it is done with aluminum blocks, heads, computers and racing heritage.
I hate advise on this engine as I have not disassembled one yet for inspection, but if we want to improve hp with RPM then lightening the valves might do it, Stainless steel, Titanium were very popular valve materials, Hence can the valve seats take the stress?
The four valve head might be a quick improvement but are they compatible. I heard the four valve engine does not go back together once disassembled (quote)from a dealer source.
I am open for criticism and facts, no worries.
Cheers, Gator
10-13-2014, 03:01 PM
#10
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2002 CLK 55 AMG cabriolet Eurocharged
Hi Quant,
I would stick with post 5, The Professor BlackBenz has worked this engine into the 10s, almost 9s.
The cams suggested worked and you cannot argue with success.
Crossbreeding engine components is truly experimental and fun but could prove to be a tuners hell, can end up in divorce if your lucky. (lol)
Gator
I would stick with post 5, The Professor BlackBenz has worked this engine into the 10s, almost 9s.
The cams suggested worked and you cannot argue with success.
Crossbreeding engine components is truly experimental and fun but could prove to be a tuners hell, can end up in divorce if your lucky. (lol)
Gator
Last edited by GatorMB; 10-13-2014 at 03:04 PM.
