Did My Own Oil Change - 2005 E320 CDI
08-24-2008, 11:53 PM
#26
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2005 E320 CDI, 2009 SLK350 (wife's toy), 2007 ML320 CDI,2001 dodge 1 ton diesel
I change my own oil on my 2005 e320 cdi, using MB filter and Mobil1 diesel oil. I also do the other item in maintenance manual, also give car a look on the underside.I bought the MB workshop disks on EBAY. They have a lot of good information on them. I do not pre-fill oil filters, as this would put unfiltered oil into the engine. New factory oil is actually quite relatively dirty, just look in the bottom of your oil cans. Engines pump 10-30 gallons of oil per minute, I think starting and idling for the 5 seconds in takes to build oil pressure will not due any harm to the engine. We run over 100 trucks, pickups, and equipment, from 1200 HP Caterpillar and down, and do not pre-fill our filters. We do use quality oil, quality filters, oil analysis and regular maintenance. Remember there is much more to vehicle maintenance than just changing oil. MB manual lists several more items than just changing the oil. If you plan to keep your car for a while you should seriously consider doing more than just an oil change. Preventative maintenance may seem expensive and unnecessary, but our experience is that it really cheap compared to breakdowns.
08-28-2008, 11:13 PM
#27
Member
So how much should you be tilting your car...lift rear wheels? You really cant fill the oil filter on this car...since it is not a canister filter.
Is this tilting really required?
Thanks,
Ed
Is this tilting really required?
Thanks,
Ed
08-30-2008, 02:43 AM
#28
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98 C43
I want to see some real data or publications on this.
Anyone know?
07-18-2010, 07:54 AM
#29
Ridiculous!
If MB designed and sold a car that has you lifting the rear end of the car after an oil change before starting the engine or engine damage will occur, they would be employing grossly incompetent engineers.
I know they dome some things strangely, but this would well into the range of truly fantastic imcompetence. I doubt that any engineer that inept would dare to show their face at an SAE conference.
Nope, much as I repect the ability of German engineers to make a simple thing overly complex, this is just too much and too stupid to believe.
- nopcbs
I know they dome some things strangely, but this would well into the range of truly fantastic imcompetence. I doubt that any engineer that inept would dare to show their face at an SAE conference.
Nope, much as I repect the ability of German engineers to make a simple thing overly complex, this is just too much and too stupid to believe.
- nopcbs
07-18-2010, 08:38 AM
#30
MB - making the simple things too complex
I just set out to do my first oil change on my used 2006 E320 CDI. Bought the oem oil filter and the (pricey) 0w40 Mobile One Euro Car oil as well as the filter wrench.
First problem was that the plastic ramps I use that have worked just swell with our: 2003 330i, 2004 RX330, 2000 Yukon XL, and 1992 LS400 just kept getting pushed forward when I tried to drive up them with the E320. No clue why - there is a rubber foot that is supposed to grip the concrete floor of the garage, but the thing does not work with the Merc. Had to put an obstacle behind the ramps to stop the skittering away. A frustrating start.
The driver's side plastic cover over the oil filter came off easy with four Torx screws. (Glad you do not have to remove the larger cover over the middle of the engine.) Access to oil filter cover and red-capped oil suck out tube is OK. MB REALLY should mark the suck out tube as being that...they do not...you just have to know. Not a owner-friendly move on their part.
The front-most undercarraige cover comes off easilly with four 8 mm nuts - annoyingly small size as it means you need a 1/4" socket set instead of the far more generally usefull 3/8" set. They should have used 10 mm.
With that cover off...no sign of any drain-plug! In fact, while you can see and touch some of the drain pan, it is covered with a Tyvek-like fabric. First time I have ever seen clothes on an oil pan. So now I have to take the second, much longer, undercarraige cover to get at the drain plug. That sucks because the ramps I have do not lift the car up high enough to give access to the rear-most screws that hold on the long second cover. In fact, it looks like you do not even have to remove the front cover as it gains you access to nothing in terms of an oil change.
At this point it looks like I either have to switch to Plan B: warm up the engine and use the suck-out port to remove the oil or Plan C: figure out how to use my steel truck ramps that the lowness of the E320 prevented me from using in the first place.
Here is what MB should have done (it is, in fact, what Lexus did with my wife's RX330): there should be a small removable panel located on the larger rear panel (that extends to about mid car) to give access to the oil drain plug without having to remove the large rear panel. Would have cost them maybe $3 to do this and would have made doing a proper oil change without having a four-wheel lift available MUCH easier.
The original poster said that once he was under the car and had the panels removed he was impressed with the engineering of the car and could see why it cost so much. I think he's wrong. MB not providing an easy access to a basic service operation like draining oil displays very poor engineering design. There is no reason whatsoever for them to have done this. If lexus can manage to provide easy access to the oil drain on their $50,000 SUV, MB should be able to do it on their $55,000 sedan.
Not impressed with MB engineers at all after this. The lack of an oil dip stick does not help, either. I wonder it they sell a dip stick as an option that fits into the suck-out port? I'm supposed to trust their electronic oil level sensor when I KNOW that their electronics cannot figure out how to display mpg properly (that fact is demonstrated every time I and every other W211 owner turn the engine on in the morning for the first time).
- nopcbs
First problem was that the plastic ramps I use that have worked just swell with our: 2003 330i, 2004 RX330, 2000 Yukon XL, and 1992 LS400 just kept getting pushed forward when I tried to drive up them with the E320. No clue why - there is a rubber foot that is supposed to grip the concrete floor of the garage, but the thing does not work with the Merc. Had to put an obstacle behind the ramps to stop the skittering away. A frustrating start.
The driver's side plastic cover over the oil filter came off easy with four Torx screws. (Glad you do not have to remove the larger cover over the middle of the engine.) Access to oil filter cover and red-capped oil suck out tube is OK. MB REALLY should mark the suck out tube as being that...they do not...you just have to know. Not a owner-friendly move on their part.
The front-most undercarraige cover comes off easilly with four 8 mm nuts - annoyingly small size as it means you need a 1/4" socket set instead of the far more generally usefull 3/8" set. They should have used 10 mm.
With that cover off...no sign of any drain-plug! In fact, while you can see and touch some of the drain pan, it is covered with a Tyvek-like fabric. First time I have ever seen clothes on an oil pan. So now I have to take the second, much longer, undercarraige cover to get at the drain plug. That sucks because the ramps I have do not lift the car up high enough to give access to the rear-most screws that hold on the long second cover. In fact, it looks like you do not even have to remove the front cover as it gains you access to nothing in terms of an oil change.
At this point it looks like I either have to switch to Plan B: warm up the engine and use the suck-out port to remove the oil or Plan C: figure out how to use my steel truck ramps that the lowness of the E320 prevented me from using in the first place.
Here is what MB should have done (it is, in fact, what Lexus did with my wife's RX330): there should be a small removable panel located on the larger rear panel (that extends to about mid car) to give access to the oil drain plug without having to remove the large rear panel. Would have cost them maybe $3 to do this and would have made doing a proper oil change without having a four-wheel lift available MUCH easier.
The original poster said that once he was under the car and had the panels removed he was impressed with the engineering of the car and could see why it cost so much. I think he's wrong. MB not providing an easy access to a basic service operation like draining oil displays very poor engineering design. There is no reason whatsoever for them to have done this. If lexus can manage to provide easy access to the oil drain on their $50,000 SUV, MB should be able to do it on their $55,000 sedan.
Not impressed with MB engineers at all after this. The lack of an oil dip stick does not help, either. I wonder it they sell a dip stick as an option that fits into the suck-out port? I'm supposed to trust their electronic oil level sensor when I KNOW that their electronics cannot figure out how to display mpg properly (that fact is demonstrated every time I and every other W211 owner turn the engine on in the morning for the first time).
- nopcbs
Thanks to the post by CDIKEN I decided to do my own oil change and I am glad I did.
I have always changed the oil in all my other vehicles but was a little hesitant due to the different filter, engine covers and undercarriage cover setup. However, $200 dollars for a change at the dealer, my discomfort of a 13500 mile change interval, and the dealer screw up of not tightening the drain plug one time which resulted in a quart of oil on my garage floor all drove me to attempt it.
Here is my experience:
Top engine covers come off easy. Make sure you have a torx #30. Bottom undecarriage covers come of easy as well using small socket set. I used some drive on Rhino ramps to lift the car. I removed the filter housing using the Mercedes oil filter adapter I bought from the dealer. It works well. The filter is also easy to change. When I went to remove the drain plug I found the dealer had tightened it so tight during the previous oil change/leak incident that the head was starting to strip with my hand socket. It was at this point I decided to do my own experiment of the vacuum out method versus removing the drain bolt. I used a marine drill pump suction setup and let it run for about 10 minutes. The suction port is at the back of the engine with a red cap. I made sure to get the suction tube all the way into the sump. It seemed to work pretty well. Next just to see how much oil was left I decided I had to get the oil drain plug off. I had to use an air wrench at full torque to get if off. Now I was pissed at the dealer.
There is no way that drain plug should have been tightened that tight. Now, to my surprise I got about another 1/8 quart out of the engine. I might add that I had also jacked the rear of the car to level it out on stands for the suction process. I replaced the drain bolt with a new unstripped one and also used a new copper washer.
My overall observations:
I have always changed the oil in all my other vehicles but was a little hesitant due to the different filter, engine covers and undercarriage cover setup. However, $200 dollars for a change at the dealer, my discomfort of a 13500 mile change interval, and the dealer screw up of not tightening the drain plug one time which resulted in a quart of oil on my garage floor all drove me to attempt it.
Here is my experience:
Top engine covers come off easy. Make sure you have a torx #30. Bottom undecarriage covers come of easy as well using small socket set. I used some drive on Rhino ramps to lift the car. I removed the filter housing using the Mercedes oil filter adapter I bought from the dealer. It works well. The filter is also easy to change. When I went to remove the drain plug I found the dealer had tightened it so tight during the previous oil change/leak incident that the head was starting to strip with my hand socket. It was at this point I decided to do my own experiment of the vacuum out method versus removing the drain bolt. I used a marine drill pump suction setup and let it run for about 10 minutes. The suction port is at the back of the engine with a red cap. I made sure to get the suction tube all the way into the sump. It seemed to work pretty well. Next just to see how much oil was left I decided I had to get the oil drain plug off. I had to use an air wrench at full torque to get if off. Now I was pissed at the dealer.
There is no way that drain plug should have been tightened that tight. Now, to my surprise I got about another 1/8 quart out of the engine. I might add that I had also jacked the rear of the car to level it out on stands for the suction process. I replaced the drain bolt with a new unstripped one and also used a new copper washer.My overall observations:
- The tech that over tightened my drain bolt during the last oil change is an idiot.
- I am NOT convinced that the vacuum method works that great. Convenient and quick and no jacking/raising of the car ? Yes, but not very thorough in oil removal.
- When working on/under this car I realized how well engineered it really is compared to my other vehicles and why Mercedes cost the money they do.
- I will defintely be changing my oil every 6500 not 13,500 miles. It was so black you would never believe it.
- Don't be intimidated about the covers and different filter housing.
07-18-2010, 06:07 PM
#32
OK...
You may well be correct, but if they provide a proper oil pan drain plug, and at least on the W211 they do, then they also design them to change the oil via a drain plug. Now someone posted a theory that this top-side drain thing is the handiwork of the (idiot) Greens busy-bodies in Germany who seem to think that people are draining their oil onto to lawns or some such thing through normal drain plugs and tried to convince the German government to ban conventional drain plugs. The story goes that they failed, but that some German manufacturers pandered to these clowns by making normal draining more difficult than it should be and making the less effective top drain the official way to do it.
Assuming this is true, OK, so the idiot Greens have screwed things up for German customers, but that is no reason that customers in other countries should suffer. It ought not to be this difficult to change the oil in the best possable way on an MB.
- nopcbs
Assuming this is true, OK, so the idiot Greens have screwed things up for German customers, but that is no reason that customers in other countries should suffer. It ought not to be this difficult to change the oil in the best possable way on an MB.
- nopcbs
07-19-2010, 09:05 AM
#33
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1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
No, its known as intelligent design. Why crawl under a vehicle and remove aerodynamic panels when sucking the oil out of the dipstick is faster, easier, cleaner and produces the exact same result? 
It saves shops time and money by not having to build a pit or put the vehicle on a lift to do a service and the expensive techs take less time to complete the job.
It saves shops time and money by not having to build a pit or put the vehicle on a lift to do a service and the expensive techs take less time to complete the job.
Last edited by 240D 3.0T; 07-19-2010 at 09:07 AM.
07-19-2010, 11:02 AM
#34
Nope
It is not cleaner as you have a oil-filled, dripping, tube to deal with, you have a dirt oil-filled suction device to clean afterwards, you get to spend over an hour sucking out the oil and even then you leave quite a bit of oil behind (I only got about 6.5 quarts out by suction and the case is suppoed to hold 8 quarts, put in 7 quarts and the sensor says I am full - you do the math), it saves a dealer zero time as it takes about a minute to get a car up on a lift and, if there was a proper access panel, it would take 2 minutes to remove it and a drain plug to dump the oil directly into a recycle drum, show me one "shop" that does not have a lift. I guess all the other companies, including BMW (last I heard, anyway) are just a bunch of dummies by providing an easy way to drain the oil via a port on the oil pan. The E46 330i I traded sure had one.
Cut the doo-doo...it's just a bad idea that MB had of making a proper drain more difficult than it should be.
- nopcbs
Cut the doo-doo...it's just a bad idea that MB had of making a proper drain more difficult than it should be.
- nopcbs
No, its known as intelligent design. Why crawl under a vehicle and remove aerodynamic panels when sucking the oil out of the dipstick is faster, easier, cleaner and produces the exact same result?
It saves shops time and money by not having to build a pit or put the vehicle on a lift to do a service and the expensive techs take less time to complete the job.
It saves shops time and money by not having to build a pit or put the vehicle on a lift to do a service and the expensive techs take less time to complete the job.
07-19-2010, 11:49 AM
#35
MBWorld Fanatic!
It is not cleaner as you have a oil-filled, dripping, tube to deal with, you have a dirt oil-filled suction device to clean afterwards, you get to spend over an hour sucking out the oil and even then you leave quite a bit of oil behind (I only got about 6.5 quarts out by suction and the case is suppoed to hold 8 quarts, put in 7 quarts and the sensor says I am full - you do the math), it saves a dealer zero time as it takes about a minute to get a car up on a lift and, if there was a proper access panel, it would take 2 minutes to remove it and a drain plug to dump the oil directly into a recycle drum, show me one "shop" that does not have a lift. I guess all the other companies, including BMW (last I heard, anyway) are just a bunch of dummies by providing an easy way to drain the oil via a port on the oil pan. The E46 330i I traded sure had one.
Cut the doo-doo...it's just a bad idea that MB had of making a proper drain more difficult than it should be.
- nopcbs
Cut the doo-doo...it's just a bad idea that MB had of making a proper drain more difficult than it should be.
- nopcbs
07-19-2010, 03:56 PM
#36
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1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
Use a rag.
Nodifferent than an oil pan.
Only if you have a low end pile of junk sucker that uses vacuum instead of a positive displacement pump to remove the oil.
False. As you can see from the attachments of cutaways of a few MB engines, the end of the dipstick tube is actually LOWER than the bottom of the pan bolt. That means using a topsider actually extracts MORE oil!
Incorrect. 8quarts is the initial dry fill quantity for your engine, 6.5 quarts is the correct oil change quantity due to some oil always being retained in the cooler, galleries, pump and cylinder head.
Ah, so you're afraid of changing the oil as MB designed but you're fully willing to trust an electronic sensor to tell you the oil level?
False.
Line up the car, put the arms in the correct location, wait a minute for it to raise, remove the panel, reinstall the panel and wait a minute for the car to lower.
Compared to...
Walking up to the car and connecting the suction machine.
You do the math.
Show me one shop that prefers to use a $10,000 lift for changing oil instead of repair work.
Some other companies take quite a long time to catch up with such minor technological advances.
Did you know there are some major car companies that sell models with rear drum brakes to this very day?
You should. Methinks you need to stop trolling and find something actually worthwhile to cry about. Do you have any idea how many oil changes you could have done in the amount of time you've been here b!tching about MB making oil changes easier?
Would you prefer MB use tube tires too since tubeless tires are so much easier to change? How many billions of $ a year do you spend on R&D compared to Mercedes' engineers?
you have a dirt oil-filled suction device to clean afterwards
you get to spend over an hour sucking out the oil
and even then you leave quite a bit of oil behind
(I only got about 6.5 quarts out by suction and the case is suppoed to hold 8 quarts
put in 7 quarts and the sensor says I am full - you do the math)
it saves a dealer zero time as it takes about a minute to get a car up on a lift
Line up the car, put the arms in the correct location, wait a minute for it to raise, remove the panel, reinstall the panel and wait a minute for the car to lower.
Compared to...
Walking up to the car and connecting the suction machine.
You do the math.
show me one "shop" that does not have a lift.
I guess all the other companies, including BMW (last I heard, anyway) are just a bunch of dummies by providing an easy way to drain the oil via a port on the oil pan.
Did you know there are some major car companies that sell models with rear drum brakes to this very day?
Cut the doo-doo
Would you prefer MB use tube tires too since tubeless tires are so much easier to change? How many billions of $ a year do you spend on R&D compared to Mercedes' engineers?
Last edited by 240D 3.0T; 07-19-2010 at 04:00 PM.
07-19-2010, 09:52 PM
#37
You have got to be kidding
OK, my turn again...
nopcbs; Oh golly, now he's hitting me with MB's purse. Ouch! I repeat, a drain plug to change the oil is what God and logic and damned near every other car manufacturer intend be used. Sucking oil out some narrow tube in the top of the engine is an inferior kludge and nothing more than recent pandering to German Greens.
Use a rag.
Nodifferent than an oil pan.
nopcbs: I think you are wrong, but this one is not worth debating.
Only if you have a low end pile of junk sucker that uses vacuum instead of a positive displacement pump to remove the oil.
nopcbs: Yep, it's just a $100 2 gallon evacuator that works by suction. When I bought it it was to pull oil out of in I/O engine on a boat. I'll bite, tell me about this positive displacement pump that you use. Sounds like you have some kind of piston pump that magically fits into the crancase and does not use suction to draw the oil out.
False. As you can see from the attachments of cutaways of a few MB engines, the end of the dipstick tube is actually LOWER than the bottom of the pan bolt. That means using a topsider actually extracts MORE oil!
nopcbs: Show me. Every car I (and most other folks) have ever owned has used a drain plug and good old gravity to drain the oil. Given that there is a drain plug on W211's, they were clearly dsined for that, too. The top drain thing is clearly a kludge. A fellow who was draining the oil via top-side compared that volume with the volume you get using the drain plug and found that you get more oil out with the drain plug. Not an exact test, but the result certainly makes sense. It's posted in this forum.
Incorrect. 8quarts is the initial dry fill quantity for your engine, 6.5 quarts is the correct oil change quantity due to some oil always being retained in the cooler, galleries, pump and cylinder head.
nopcbs: Huh? So you are telling me that the fill volume of 8 quarts (with filter change) that MB lists in their owner's manual is wrong by 1.5 quarts? Now, why would these crafty Germans tell you something that would cause your innocent MB owner to over-fill their crankcase when doing an oil change? I see many lawsuits coming MB's way from this one...unless you are simply wrong.
Ah, so you're afraid of changing the oil as MB designed but you're fully willing to trust an electronic sensor to tell you the oil level?
nopcbs: I'm not afraid of doing it top-side (I did it), it's just that I'm very annoyed that MB made it harder than it needs to be to do it the proper and simple way, via a drain plug. As for the sensor, it's the only way they give you to tell your oil level. I do agree with you, however, that I would MUCH prefer a good old dip stick.
False.
Line up the car, put the arms in the correct location, wait a minute for it to raise, remove the panel, reinstall the panel and wait a minute for the car to lower.
Compared to...
Walking up to the car and connecting the suction machine.
nopcbs: Uh, clearly you have not done this before or else you plan to punch a hole in that Torx screwed-on vanity cover that is over the red cap of the sucker tube. I will accept, however, that there is not a whole lot of difference in the amount of time it takes to get started, either way...especially if MB provided a small access panel to the oil drain plug, as Lexus did on my wife's RX330. (Damned clever these Japanese.)
You do the math.
Show me one shop that prefers to use a $10,000 lift for changing oil instead of repair work.
nopcbs: Well, actually, every oil-change shop has a few and I suupose they could do top drain if they wanted to. My guess is that if you ask for a top drain, they will probably look at you like you are a nut for asking them to do something an inferior way to the way it is normally done and better.
Some other companies take quite a long time to catch up with such minor technological advances.
Did you know there are some major car companies that sell models with rear drum brakes to this very day?
nopcbs: Did you know that top-draining is the way oil has been commonly changed on I/O drive boats like "forever"? But only because most folks do not like draining the oil into their bilge. There is nothing advanced about top-draining. It is an inferior way to change your oil, as compared to gravity and a drain plug. It's something the wacko Greens dreamed up in Germany and that MB seems to have caved into.
Finally, we clearly disgree on this subject, but I really am curious what you would recommend in the way of this "positive displacement pump" you mentioned, to really PULL that oil out fast. And how fast is fast, anyway? I'm probably going to do a bottom drain next time ("Gravity - not just a good idea, it's the law"), but if that is a big enough pain I may swtch back to the top drain method and would dearly love not to spend over an hour getting the old oil out. I change my oil way more often than Father Benz calls for, so a little carryover is not going to be a big deal.
You should. Methinks you need to stop trolling and find something actually worthwhile to cry about. Do you have any idea how many oil changes you could have done in the amount of time you've been here b!tching about MB making oil changes easier?
nopcbs: Oh come on! Since when is *****ing about a stupid thing a car company has done a troll?
Would you prefer MB use tube tires too since tubeless tires are so much easier to change? How many billions of $ a year do you spend on R&D compared to Mercedes' engineers?
Nodifferent than an oil pan.
nopcbs: I think you are wrong, but this one is not worth debating.
Only if you have a low end pile of junk sucker that uses vacuum instead of a positive displacement pump to remove the oil.
nopcbs: Yep, it's just a $100 2 gallon evacuator that works by suction. When I bought it it was to pull oil out of in I/O engine on a boat. I'll bite, tell me about this positive displacement pump that you use. Sounds like you have some kind of piston pump that magically fits into the crancase and does not use suction to draw the oil out.
False. As you can see from the attachments of cutaways of a few MB engines, the end of the dipstick tube is actually LOWER than the bottom of the pan bolt. That means using a topsider actually extracts MORE oil!
nopcbs: Show me. Every car I (and most other folks) have ever owned has used a drain plug and good old gravity to drain the oil. Given that there is a drain plug on W211's, they were clearly dsined for that, too. The top drain thing is clearly a kludge. A fellow who was draining the oil via top-side compared that volume with the volume you get using the drain plug and found that you get more oil out with the drain plug. Not an exact test, but the result certainly makes sense. It's posted in this forum.
Incorrect. 8quarts is the initial dry fill quantity for your engine, 6.5 quarts is the correct oil change quantity due to some oil always being retained in the cooler, galleries, pump and cylinder head.
nopcbs: Huh? So you are telling me that the fill volume of 8 quarts (with filter change) that MB lists in their owner's manual is wrong by 1.5 quarts? Now, why would these crafty Germans tell you something that would cause your innocent MB owner to over-fill their crankcase when doing an oil change? I see many lawsuits coming MB's way from this one...unless you are simply wrong.
Ah, so you're afraid of changing the oil as MB designed but you're fully willing to trust an electronic sensor to tell you the oil level?
nopcbs: I'm not afraid of doing it top-side (I did it), it's just that I'm very annoyed that MB made it harder than it needs to be to do it the proper and simple way, via a drain plug. As for the sensor, it's the only way they give you to tell your oil level. I do agree with you, however, that I would MUCH prefer a good old dip stick.
False.
Line up the car, put the arms in the correct location, wait a minute for it to raise, remove the panel, reinstall the panel and wait a minute for the car to lower.
Compared to...
Walking up to the car and connecting the suction machine.
nopcbs: Uh, clearly you have not done this before or else you plan to punch a hole in that Torx screwed-on vanity cover that is over the red cap of the sucker tube. I will accept, however, that there is not a whole lot of difference in the amount of time it takes to get started, either way...especially if MB provided a small access panel to the oil drain plug, as Lexus did on my wife's RX330. (Damned clever these Japanese.)
You do the math.
Show me one shop that prefers to use a $10,000 lift for changing oil instead of repair work.
nopcbs: Well, actually, every oil-change shop has a few and I suupose they could do top drain if they wanted to. My guess is that if you ask for a top drain, they will probably look at you like you are a nut for asking them to do something an inferior way to the way it is normally done and better.
Some other companies take quite a long time to catch up with such minor technological advances.
Did you know there are some major car companies that sell models with rear drum brakes to this very day?
nopcbs: Did you know that top-draining is the way oil has been commonly changed on I/O drive boats like "forever"? But only because most folks do not like draining the oil into their bilge. There is nothing advanced about top-draining. It is an inferior way to change your oil, as compared to gravity and a drain plug. It's something the wacko Greens dreamed up in Germany and that MB seems to have caved into.
Finally, we clearly disgree on this subject, but I really am curious what you would recommend in the way of this "positive displacement pump" you mentioned, to really PULL that oil out fast. And how fast is fast, anyway? I'm probably going to do a bottom drain next time ("Gravity - not just a good idea, it's the law"), but if that is a big enough pain I may swtch back to the top drain method and would dearly love not to spend over an hour getting the old oil out. I change my oil way more often than Father Benz calls for, so a little carryover is not going to be a big deal.
You should. Methinks you need to stop trolling and find something actually worthwhile to cry about. Do you have any idea how many oil changes you could have done in the amount of time you've been here b!tching about MB making oil changes easier?
nopcbs: Oh come on! Since when is *****ing about a stupid thing a car company has done a troll?
Would you prefer MB use tube tires too since tubeless tires are so much easier to change? How many billions of $ a year do you spend on R&D compared to Mercedes' engineers?
07-20-2010, 09:16 AM
#38
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1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
http://www.shurflo.com/files/Educati...50-305-426.pdf
Show me.
Given that there is a drain plug on W211's, they were clearly dsined for that, too.
A fellow who was draining the oil via top-side compared that volume with the volume you get using the drain plug and found that you get more oil out with the drain plug.
Anecdotes are worthless, especially when trying to "prove" something that isn't true, as they are usually made up.
Huh? So you are telling me that the fill volume of 8 quarts (with filter change) that MB lists in their owner's manual is wrong by 1.5 quarts?
I'm very annoyed that MB made it harder than it needs to be to do it the proper and simple way
Uh, clearly you have not done this before or else you plan to punch a hole in that Torx screwed-on vanity cover that is over the red cap of the sucker tube
Well, actually, every oil-change shop has a few and I suupose they could do top drain if they wanted to.
FYI, most oil change dedicated shops use a pit. Lifts are usually only used in cities that won't issue a permit to construct a pit.
My guess is that if you ask for a top drain, they will probably look at you like you are a nut for asking them to do something an inferior way to the way it is normally done and better.
Did you know that top-draining is the way oil has been commonly changed on I/O drive boats like "forever"?
It is an inferior way to change your oil
("Gravity - not just a good idea, it's the law")
Oh come on! Since when is *****ing about a stupid thing a car company has done a troll?
I repeat, a drain plug to change the oil is what God and logic and damned near every other car manufacturer intend be used.
Sucking oil out some narrow tube in the top of the engine is an inferior kludge
Last edited by 240D 3.0T; 07-20-2010 at 09:20 AM.
07-20-2010, 02:56 PM
#39
MBWorld Fanatic!
What 'merikuns and orientals do is irrelevant and of so little concern as to be in the negative.
Oil changing is not supposed to be about feeling "manly."
07-20-2010, 11:51 PM
#40
330i reality
Man you two have really drunk deeply of the MB Kool-Aid. You running an IV drip of the MB Kool-Aid, too?
Your total lack of a handle on such basic common sense (the best way to fully drain ANY condensed fluid out of any container is through a port at the bottom of the container) is breath-taking. I mean it; really breath-taking. Poor engineering design fully embraced by people willing to check in their common sense when they pick up their MB car keys.
Don't know about VW, but there was a very well located and very easy access drain fitting on the bottom of the pan of my E46 330i. Simple to use and totally effective and it did not require the purchase of any gadgets your average car owner who has been doing his own oil changes for years would not already have.
Just for grins, I did a little Google search on E92 oil changes and immediately found hits of instructions from owners...all doing the draining with oil pan ports...like God intended. I think you are assuming that just because MB has you do something, BMW will have you do the same thing. Nope.
Your automotive bigotry is, I'm sure, meant in jest, but it is a bit childish and ignorant humor.
- nopcbs
Your total lack of a handle on such basic common sense (the best way to fully drain ANY condensed fluid out of any container is through a port at the bottom of the container) is breath-taking. I mean it; really breath-taking. Poor engineering design fully embraced by people willing to check in their common sense when they pick up their MB car keys.
Don't know about VW, but there was a very well located and very easy access drain fitting on the bottom of the pan of my E46 330i. Simple to use and totally effective and it did not require the purchase of any gadgets your average car owner who has been doing his own oil changes for years would not already have.
Just for grins, I did a little Google search on E92 oil changes and immediately found hits of instructions from owners...all doing the draining with oil pan ports...like God intended. I think you are assuming that just because MB has you do something, BMW will have you do the same thing. Nope.
Your automotive bigotry is, I'm sure, meant in jest, but it is a bit childish and ignorant humor.
- nopcbs
07-21-2010, 12:10 AM
#41
Shurflo Oil Change
I tire of our back and forth jabbing. You're wrong and we both know it, but you seem to be one of these fellows who have wrapped their personality around their car and so no criticism of the car brand, no matter how warranted, can be tolerated.
That's fine. So be it.
Thanks for the lead on the Shurflo. I actually did a little Googling last night and found this device being sold to boat owners, along with similar devices from other brands. A little pricey for what it is (a simple diaphram pump on top of a big paint bucket), but that's about what the other brands ask for two. It probably does work better than my MityVac...up to the point where it's time to dump the ~ 2 gallons of oil. Looks like no lip on the bucket, so that means that there is a good chance of a spill (good design would minimize that, like with the MityVac where there is a pour lip), but Shurflo was just adapting an existing cheap bucket to hold their pump.
Now, one last point, and this is actually troubling. I said that the E320 CDI oil capacity as given in the owner's manual is 8 quarts with oil filter, and it is. You said that that is how much oil the engine takes when it is bone dry and that the actual oil change capacity is something quite a bit less than that, I think you said like 6.5 of 7 quarts. OK, Batman, puzzle me this, why would MB give an oil capacity figure in an owners manual that represents a volume of oil that the owner should never actually put into the car. A volume that would, in fact, leave too much oil in the car, which MB warns can cause engine damage. Further, why would they NOT tell the owner what volume of oil actually should be poured into the crankcase during an oil change? Further, why, whenever you see a question posted about the oil change capacity of this engine in this forum, you get an answer of 7.5 liters or 8 quarts, just like in the manual. Are all these helpful people wrong or are they trying to make the innocent persons who asked the question over-fill and possable damage their engines?
Or are you just as dead wrong about this as you are about what the best way is to drain an oil pan and that a top-drain is just a second best kludge that does work, but not as well?
Over and out.
- nopcbs
That's fine. So be it.
Thanks for the lead on the Shurflo. I actually did a little Googling last night and found this device being sold to boat owners, along with similar devices from other brands. A little pricey for what it is (a simple diaphram pump on top of a big paint bucket), but that's about what the other brands ask for two. It probably does work better than my MityVac...up to the point where it's time to dump the ~ 2 gallons of oil. Looks like no lip on the bucket, so that means that there is a good chance of a spill (good design would minimize that, like with the MityVac where there is a pour lip), but Shurflo was just adapting an existing cheap bucket to hold their pump.
Now, one last point, and this is actually troubling. I said that the E320 CDI oil capacity as given in the owner's manual is 8 quarts with oil filter, and it is. You said that that is how much oil the engine takes when it is bone dry and that the actual oil change capacity is something quite a bit less than that, I think you said like 6.5 of 7 quarts. OK, Batman, puzzle me this, why would MB give an oil capacity figure in an owners manual that represents a volume of oil that the owner should never actually put into the car. A volume that would, in fact, leave too much oil in the car, which MB warns can cause engine damage. Further, why would they NOT tell the owner what volume of oil actually should be poured into the crankcase during an oil change? Further, why, whenever you see a question posted about the oil change capacity of this engine in this forum, you get an answer of 7.5 liters or 8 quarts, just like in the manual. Are all these helpful people wrong or are they trying to make the innocent persons who asked the question over-fill and possable damage their engines?
Or are you just as dead wrong about this as you are about what the best way is to drain an oil pan and that a top-drain is just a second best kludge that does work, but not as well?
Over and out.
- nopcbs
Its a positive displacement diaphragm pump.
http://www.shurflo.com/files/Educati...50-305-426.pdf
I already did.
As a secondary alternative.
As you so quaintly put it, "show me".
Anecdotes are worthless, especially when trying to "prove" something that isn't true, as they are usually made up.
Yes. Read it again and you will see that 8qts is not the oil change quantity.
Ah, so its harder to stick a tube into the engine than lift up the vehicle, crawl under it? Yeah, that makes a LOT of sense.
Oh, damn, I'm sorry. Add 10 seconds to the time after walking up to the car.
How many oil change places are willing to change the oil on an expensive luxury car? And what owner in their right mind would take their expensive luxury car to a $20 oil change hut?
FYI, most oil change dedicated shops use a pit. Lifts are usually only used in cities that won't issue a permit to construct a pit.
I'd be surprised if a grease monkey would even understand what a topsider is let alone how to use it. They make $8.15/hr for a reason.
Then why are you b!tching about doing it in a car? If boat engine manufacturers have figured out how to get all the oil out through the dipstick don't you think a $164billion car company could too?
In your inferior opinion.
How cute, you can quote things you don't even have an understanding of.
Since little kids began crying about every little thing that doesn't happen exactly to their liking.
Repeat all you like, it changes nothing. An imaginary being in the sky has nothing to do with the design of an engine.
Only to cavemen such as yourself.
http://www.shurflo.com/files/Educati...50-305-426.pdf
I already did.
As a secondary alternative.
As you so quaintly put it, "show me".
Anecdotes are worthless, especially when trying to "prove" something that isn't true, as they are usually made up.
Yes. Read it again and you will see that 8qts is not the oil change quantity.
Ah, so its harder to stick a tube into the engine than lift up the vehicle, crawl under it? Yeah, that makes a LOT of sense.
Oh, damn, I'm sorry. Add 10 seconds to the time after walking up to the car.
How many oil change places are willing to change the oil on an expensive luxury car? And what owner in their right mind would take their expensive luxury car to a $20 oil change hut?
FYI, most oil change dedicated shops use a pit. Lifts are usually only used in cities that won't issue a permit to construct a pit.
I'd be surprised if a grease monkey would even understand what a topsider is let alone how to use it. They make $8.15/hr for a reason.
Then why are you b!tching about doing it in a car? If boat engine manufacturers have figured out how to get all the oil out through the dipstick don't you think a $164billion car company could too?
In your inferior opinion.
How cute, you can quote things you don't even have an understanding of.
Since little kids began crying about every little thing that doesn't happen exactly to their liking.
Repeat all you like, it changes nothing. An imaginary being in the sky has nothing to do with the design of an engine.
Only to cavemen such as yourself.
07-21-2010, 03:42 PM
#42
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1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
lkchris, let us leave the poorly educated child to cry on his own. He clearly lacks any semblance of learning ability or engineering logic.
07-21-2010, 05:08 PM
#43
MBWorld Fanatic!
Just 2 pennys worth.... I am with nopcbs. It suits me to drain the oil from the sump plug even if it takes 5 minutes to remove the covers over the sump.
I have done it over 46 years & am not about to buy any new fangled dangled sucker pump.
With the covers removed it is always a good oportunity to inspect this area of the car for wear or damage.
You two blokes are as bad as politicians .... going on like a couple of girls....
I have done it over 46 years & am not about to buy any new fangled dangled sucker pump.
With the covers removed it is always a good oportunity to inspect this area of the car for wear or damage.
You two blokes are as bad as politicians .... going on like a couple of girls....
08-08-2010, 09:44 PM
#46
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E320 CDI
the oil drain plug is 1/2" not 13mm. weird!! I will never do an oil drain again. It is just painful to crawl under the car. Such oil from the dipstick hole is the way to go!!
01-05-2011, 11:53 PM
#48
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1985 300SD, 2005 E320 CDI
Quick Question
So just got done changing the oil in my '05 E320 CDI, and I seem to have slightly overfilled it. The service menu is now showing 7.0qts. Apparently I didn't let it sit quite long enough between the initial start, and level check. I know it's not good to overfill, but is 2/10ths of a quart even worth worrying about?
01-06-2011, 08:22 AM
#49
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2006 E320 CDI 235 hp 420 ft tq
No 2/10's of a qt is nothing to worry about, a 1/2 of a qt or more and I would drain it out.
My CDI holds 8 qts from what my manual says.
I have changed my oil three times and drained it from the bottom, before I did that I would open the oil filter housing so it would drain also and have never had a over full on the check menu.
My CDI holds 8 qts from what my manual says.
I have changed my oil three times and drained it from the bottom, before I did that I would open the oil filter housing so it would drain also and have never had a over full on the check menu.
Last edited by 2slowcdi; 01-06-2011 at 08:29 AM.
12-28-2011, 07:56 AM
#50
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2006 E320 CDI
I am about to change the oil for the first time on my 2006 e320 CDI. I have the oil and filter and have done the oil changes on my 2003 Jetta TDI since it was new. I suck the oil out the top.
The only thing I lack right now is information about resetting the computer to show the engine oil has been changed. Could anyone point me in the right direction? thanks.
The only thing I lack right now is information about resetting the computer to show the engine oil has been changed. Could anyone point me in the right direction? thanks.
