2006 Cdi Vs 2007 Bluetec

[carpersn]

Originally Posted by Germancar1 Ok I'm officially sad. I figured out what you have, NMEFYS. New Mercedes Every Few Years Syndrome. There is no cure...lol! M Doesn't Jack really have the acute form of this disease, NMEYS? No, wait, if we go with 12-year spans, will Jack be diagnosed with NMEFMS (months)?

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[cdi1]

Originally Posted by harkgar

The fact so many MB vehicles are built in the USA means that the built quality is high.

I am pro-American on everything, but I am inclined to have more confidence in German-build quality.

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by Tuffy72

As soon as it comes in I will be glad,should be in at the end of next month. Its gonna a be while before I can change anything. We are gonna be strapped for cash for awhile. We found out last week we will be moving to Pa. Gotta find a house and cost of living a lot higher in Pa than Slidell,about double. So I'll be riding stock for a few years.

Pa is not so far from Toronto. I passed through quite a few times when my son was a student in Duke (not a lacrosse player). I have sold my 1999 E55 and bought a 2006 CDi. Too many kids and expenses.

Good luck with your move, enjoy your Bluetec and post some photos when she is on US soil.

[hameed]

Apologies for bringing back this thread from the dead.

I want to buy an MB diesel and after reading this thread and several others regarding the pro's and cons of the 3.2 I6 car vs. the 3.0 V6, I still can't decide which one to get.......... I'm leaning towards the CDI and getting it chipped, but am concerned that most 2006 models would have a lot of mileage on them now.

I like the fact that the 3.2 I6 is "less complicated" compared to the 3.0 V6 and also better optioned.

Has anyone here owned both at different times? Someone like that would give a less biased viewpoint of each models strengths and weaknesses.

My main reason for buying one is simply - I want a reliable used car that has great gas mileage. 07 E320 Bluetec or 06 E320 CDI?

[Dan Wang]

There are other things you should consider too other than the engine. I think both the 2006 and 2007+ have proven their trustworthiness. However, you should also look at the breaking systems of the 2006. Brake by wire through the SBC has been problematic, and MB discontinued that technology.

In regards to mileage, I wouldnt worry about the high mileage on these cars.

[Green E-300 DT]

Originally Posted by hameed

Apologies for bringing back this thread from the dead.

I want to buy an MB diesel and after reading this thread and several others regarding the
pro's and cons of the 3.2 I6 car vs. the 3.0 V6, I still can't decide which one to get . . .
I'm leaning towards the CDI and getting it chipped, but am concerned that
most 2006 models would have a lot of mileage on them now. [True!]

I like the fact that the 3.2 I6 is "less complicated" compared to
the 3.0 V6 and also better optioned. [?]

Has anyone here owned both at different times? Someone like that would
give a less biased viewpoint of each models strengths and weaknesses.

My main reason for buying one is simply - I want a reliable used car
that has great FUEL mileage. 07 E320 Bluetec or 06 E320 CDI?

I have not owned either model. However, having said that, I do have an opinion:

I'd go with the 2007s and later. Why:

More power.

Newer.

A more reliable and a better braking system.

A Seven-Speed transmission vs the older Five-Speed.

Geared ten (10) percent higher for more relaxed high-speed crusing.

They should be easier to find with lower mileages on their odometers because they are newer.

You do not gives us your location?

You will most likely have to search other than Kalieforrniea to
find one, as there were not too many sold here.

Good luck finding a nice low mileage example.

Wish I could trade my near new '10 JSW TDI for a nice one.



D

[hameed]

I live in Ontario , Canada

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by hameed

Apologies for bringing back this thread from the dead.

I want to buy an MB diesel and after reading this thread and several others regarding the pro's and cons of the 3.2 I6 car vs. the 3.0 V6, I still can't decide which one to get.......... I'm leaning towards the CDI and getting it chipped, but am concerned that most 2006 models would have a lot of mileage on them now.

I like the fact that the 3.2 I6 is "less complicated" compared to the 3.0 V6 and also better optioned.

Has anyone here owned both at different times? Someone like that would give a less biased viewpoint of each models strengths and weaknesses.

My main reason for buying one is simply - I want a reliable used car that has great gas mileage. 07 E320 Bluetec or 06 E320 CDI?

If that is the case buy a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. They run forever with minimal maintenance and gasoline. Mercedes is not the way to go if your aim is economic transport, gasoline or diesel powered.

Having said that I think the car I would buy is the 2006 E320 CDi. I thought about it long and hard before I purchased mine and my reasons are:

The 2007 & newer diesel cars have 3 or 4 "filters, cats or whatever". The 2006 has one cat. Period. If anyone of these breaks down, as they surely will when the car is out of warranty, you would be looking at big bucks replacing all these environmentally friend, wallet unfriendly filters.

The 2008 and newer diesel cars also have urea injection which means you lose a spare tire and have to fill the piss bottle or risk being stranded. There is an electronic policeman in your ECU to make sure you do not stray. I do not know the price of urea but it would cut down on your mileage savings.

The 2006 diesel car has an iron block engine which means you can bore it out. No such luck with the V6. It has an alloy block with iron liners.

The 2006 can burn the good old "low sulfur" diesel as well as ULSD which means you can ship it to Mexico or anywhere else in the world.

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

I have not owned either model. However, having said that, I do have an opinion:

I'd go with the 2007s and later. Why:

More power.

Newer.

A more reliable and a better braking system.

A Seven-Speed transmission vs the older Five-Speed.

Geared ten (10) percent higher for more relaxed high-speed crusing.

They should be easier to find with lower mileages on their odometers because they are newer.

You do not gives us your location?

You will most likely have to search other than Kalieforrniea to
find one, as there were not too many sold here.

Good luck finding a nice low mileage example.

Wish I could trade my near new '10 JSW TDI for a nice one.



D

It is good to see you posting again Mr. Green. Hope all is well with you!

[Green E-300 DT]

Originally Posted by harkgar

The 2008 and newer diesel cars also have urea injection which means you lose a spare tire and have to fill the piss bottle or risk being stranded. There is an electronic policeman in your ECU to make sure you do not stray. I do not know the price of urea but it would cut down on your mileage savings.

The 2006 can burn the good old "low sulfur" diesel as well as ULSD which
means you can ship it to Mexico or anywhere else in the world.

IF I am not mistaken (at 75 years, I often am!) MBZ did not go to the Urea injection 'til the 2010s?

Urea fluids are failrly inexpensive when purchased other than from the dealers.
Still, it is an added expense.

Down here, the older 500 PPM sulfur fuels are no longer available,
so having the 2006s would not be an advantage.

Still, I wish I had one in place of my 2010 JSW TDI DSG.
It runs really well (it's chipped) but it is simply not as MBZ.



Derrel

[Green E-300 DT]

Originally Posted by harkgar

It is good to see you posting again Mr. Green. Hope all is well with you!

Had my doubts there for a while (in hospital twice for OHS and double bypass) but
I am fully recovered now and can walk for one half hour now with no problems!

Surprising how long it takes to regain full strenght.
My aorta goes 'oink-oink' now and is suppossed to be good for up to fifteen years!
When that one wears out, I will simply need to have it replaced again.
Oh well, the things we do to keep on trucken!



Derrel

[listerone]

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

Urea fluids are failrly inexpensive when purchased other than from the dealers.Still, it is an added expense.

Last time I checked (shortly after having bought my BMW) VW dealers were selling 2.5 gallon jugs of DEF for about $13.Given that these cars hold about 7 gallons and go about 10K miles on a tankful that comes to a little more than $39 a year.Some people pay that much for a breakfast at Starbucks.

[ImInPA]

During my first 10K miles I added about 4.5 gallons onf AdBlue (less than $20). During my next 10K miles I only used about 2.5 gallons of AdBlue. The cost of AdBlue is of no consequence when I compare it to the fact that I am no regularly getting over 40 mpg on the Highway and rearely below 27 in city. Damn good for 4000 lb. plus car.

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

Had my doubts there for a while (in hospital twice for OHS and double bypass) but
I am fully recovered now and can walk for one half hour now with no problems!

Surprising how long it takes to regain full strenght.
My aorta goes 'oink-oink' now and is suppossed to be good for up to fifteen years!
When that one wears out, I will simply need to have it replaced again.
Oh well, the things we do to keep on trucken!



Derrel

Good show. I wish I can make it to your age. My CDi now has just under 110,000 km and running like a top with regular 5,000 km oil changes and Power Service Diesel Kleen every few tanks. No problems whatsoever. I wonder how the Bluetecs and AdBlues will fare in 5 years time.

[Green E-300 DT]

Originally Posted by harkgar

Good show. I wish I can make it to your age. My CDi now has just under 110,000 km
and running like a top with regular 5,000 km oil changes and Power Service
Diesel Kleen every few tanks. No problems whatsoever.
I wonder how the Bluetecs and AdBlues will fare in 5 years time.

You will reach 75 years plus with no problems! It's just like walking . . .
you put one foot in front of the other and keep on trucking.

Now, what's with this changing your oil so often? What oil are you using?
Doesn't MBZ recommend something like 13K mile oil changes for our CDIs?

Also, in reading hereabouts, did you ever get, and if so, what are your thoughts on the 'plug in'
hotrod box you were considering? Did you ever get it and if so, how did it turn out?

Our new to us late 2005 CDI now has 112K miles and I can explain injectors to you IF
you need a little information on them as I just had to replace one that was leaking.
Lots of fun, but no problem if you understand what's going on.

As far as 'I wonder how the Bluetecs and AdBlues will fare in 5 years time' . . . only time will tell!
I'm so glad I listened to you and others and did not go there. The best set up is no longer available.
The only thing I miss in ours is the new seven speed tranny. There is no reason for ours to
be turning 1800 rpms per mile or at 60 mph. With our torque, 1500 rpms should be enough!
The new transmissions are geared so that seventh speed has ten percent higher gearing.

What I don't know is exactly what the rear end ratio is for the Bluetecs and the latest AdBlues.

People are saying that these new AdBlues weigh 350 pounds more than ours.
So glad I took your good advise! Thanks.

So get back to this old duffer with your thoughts and some answers when you have the time.
Stay warm! It's going to be cooler today, only 70 F. Then back up into the high 70s and low 80s.

No rain and we need it so badly.



Derrel

[NoFoolyn]

At 67 yrs old...and semi-retired....Bought my '07 Bluetec ( 53,000 miles ) last AUG. My first diesel, wanted to try MB's "clean diesel" . Then joined MBWorld to see all the arguing about Aluminum V-6 vs iron block I-6. TOO LATE NOW ... we'll see. Car is very impressive with massive low end torque. YES !!

Two weeks after buying it, an occasional click/click/click would come from in or under the center console storage box. It went away, then came back at 30 - 40 days, more insistent now. I figured it was a relay in the console. When it got really annoying 1500 miles ( and 3 months after buying ) , the MB dealer found it was a pressed in bearing in between the front and reap prop shaft ( right under the console ). The bearing was walking back and forth on machined front hub of rear prop shaft. With the used car warranrty expired, that was $1,606. It was $900 for new rear prop shaft. Now it's nice and quiet.

As second "pleasure & trip car" the budget is only 6,000 miles per yr, so I figure it'll be OK for awhile. Now ( 2300 miles after buy ) there's a hint of diesel fuel smell in closed garage after shut off... can't find it yet.

7 speed gearbox KICKS back into first gear when cold...but is OK after the box gets warmed up. A December 2011 400 mile interstate trip at manually controlled 65 mph showed 39.9 mpg in two way average .... 1620 rpm at 60 mph... exactly HALF that of older (late '60's - early '70's MB 280 SE sedan with 2.8 liter in-line 6 ).

For me ( 5'11", 158 pounds ), the drivers seat is agony after 90 min, with soft/soft initial layer under seat cover ( MB Tex) having my butt bones going down into the next harder layer. For $375 I can get brand new rubber seat cushion with electric heat pad ( from MB dealer ) and have recommended body trim shop do the retro. That's for MARCH.

Fingers Crossed ..... I had ONE DPF cleaning cycle go on as I shut the car off in garage one night. Could tell by the smell of HEAT in/under the car. HOLY SH#* ... I started the car IMMEDIATELY and drove it another 15 miles. All was well when we got back home ..... Yeah, Fingers Crossed for the future.

[Green E-300 DT]

Originally Posted by NoFoolyn;5035379

As second "pleasure & trip car" the budget is only 6,000 miles per yr, so I figure it'll be OK for awhile. Now ( 2300 miles after buy )
there's a hint of diesel fuel smell in closed garage after shut off . . . can't find it yet.

7 speed gearbox KICKS back into first gear when cold...but is OK after the box gets warmed up. A December 2011 400 mile interstate
trip at manually controlled 65 mph showed 39.9 mpg in two way average .... 1620 rpm at 60 mph... exactly HALF that of older
(late '60's - early '70's MB 280 SE sedan with 2.8 liter in-line 6 ).

[[B

But . . what did it rev at 60 mph? Bet you that figure will tell you why the poorer F E![/b]]

Fingers Crossed . . . I had ONE DPF cleaning cycle go on as I shut the car off in garage one night. Could tell by the smell of
HEAT in/under the car. HOLY SH#* . . . I started the car IMMEDIATELY and drove it another 15 miles.
All was well when we got back home . . . Yeah, Fingers Crossed for the future.

Taking your points that I have left one by one.

Perhaps the diesel smell in the garage is coming from a leaking injector.
With your DPF, it is not coming from the exhaust pipe, is it?
Reason I know, is I just had to replace an injector that was leaking from a failed seal where it contacted the cylinder head.
I hope that I am wrong, as that will be rather hard for you to find, but if I am correct, you need to get it fixed
because if you wait, the injector will be harder to extract because of carbon build up along the sides.
Remove the covers if yours has them on both banks and look for residue where the fuel injectors make contact with the heads.

You are the first person, although I have asked repeatly, what the revs are at 60 mph.
I am trying to determine the rear end ratio for the Bluetecs and if I know the revs per mile (same as 60 mph)
I can figure backwards and determine the gear ratio of the deferential. Thank you. Perhaps 2.82s?
My CDI has 2.65 gears but only a five speed and turns 1772 rpms at 60 mph.
Wish I had a 7G tranny. No need for the CDIs to rev that high, but it sure makes 'em quick!

If the Bluetecs are like the late TDIs and I think they are, don't worry about the regenerations taking place in your garage
after you have turned the motor off. This happens on the 2009 and later TDIs also and it is common every few hundred
miles and just happens to happen whenever the computer calls for it. It will only last for a short time,
and with the fans running at full speed, everything will remain cool.

Again thank you.



D

[NoFoolyn]

When I check the car, there is no particular smell of diesel under the hood, nor any sign of liquid under the car ... just a slight/slight odor of diesel fuel in the garage. I will check the injector seals ... engine cover is one BIG unit. Thank You

Owners manual says final drive is 2.64 ratio. The 7-G trans has overdrive on 6th and 7th gear.. 7th gear ratio is something like 0.73, to give 1620 rpm at 60 mph. That's a 1.95 overall final drive ... insane. The late '60's MB 280 SE ( 2.8 liter six ) did 3200 rpm at 60 mph....

When I smelled the car ... "must be doing the DPF filter burn off routine"...all I smelled was higher heat level than general, after I turned car off and opened the drivers door to get out, in the closed garage. Just the smell of metal being hotter than normal. Being an old 1970's - 1980's turbo guy who would never shut the car off until the turbo had a chance to cool down..... due to the increase in temp as the heat would build up in the dormant turbo to ( maybe ) 700 deg F......my brain did the same thing when figuring "wow...how high could it go sitting here"...so I drove it a few more miles. Live and Learn. I still do the "cool down" routine with all the other turbo cars I have had since the 1980's ... like my current 150,000 mile '01 Volvo little V-40 wagon ( a keeper forever ) PRIMARY auto.

Today is another unusually nice eastern Massachusetts winter day .. we have not had a real winter yet ... so I'll take "GOTTLIEB" ( the Bluetec ) out for the drive to part time / semi retirement job. I'll "sniff around" when I get the car home tonight.

[Carsy]

Have a look around the top of the fuel filter . Mine is always a little wet there from the water vent passing minutely.

I cannot understand how the DPF can regenerate whilst the engine is turned off ?

I thought the engine had to be running under load on the highway for the programed extra fuel to burn off the carbon.

What is this old fella missing ?

[ImInPA]

The DPF regen will not happen if the engine is not running. The regen requires the engine to be running. The process injects and extra amount of diesel fuel to increase the exhaust temperatures to burn of the DPF. All DPF regens work this way regardless of manufacturer. It simply cannot occur with the engine off.

[Green E-300 DT]

Originally Posted by ImInPA

The DPF regen. will not happen if the engine is not running. The regen. requires the engine to be running.
The process injects and extra amount of diesel fuel to increase the exhaust temperatures to burn off the DPF.
[True in part as the process will not start unless the motor is running. Note the word 'start.']
[Once the fire is lighted or lit, why would it or how could it stop even though the motor is turned off?]
All DPF regens work this way regardless of manufacturer. [Not True!]
It simply cannot occur with the engine off.
[In can and does occur at least in all 2009 and later VW TDIs and probably our MBZs and Bimmers also.

I DO NOT have a MBZ that has that 'feature.' (One of several reasons I bought a CDI!) I just sold a '10 VW JSW TDI
that of course had regeneration and many is the time that process was going on when I pulled into the garage
or stopped somewhere and shut the motor off and it did continue on, sometimes for several minutes.
This happens at least once every 600 miles or so, or more often as the sensor deems the process to be necessary.
How can a person know that it is happening? Easily! All the fans are on at full speed
in order to help keep the underhood temperatures down as low as possible.

So your statement "All DPF regens work this way regardless of manufacturer" simply
is not true as many people who have VW TDIs 2009 through the current models can attest.
Once the regeneration process is started, the 'burn' will not cease until it has been completed.
My understanding is that temperatures within the DPF when that process is going on approach something
like 1200 degrees F. Just because the motor is shut down does not mean that the fire will go out.
It must burn itself out, hence why the fans stay on until it has stopped its cleansing burn.

Don't believe me? Ask any knowledgeable 2009 and later VW TDI owner.
Also, the Audi A3s which share the same TDI engines.



Derrel

[DubVBenz]

Originally Posted by NoFoolyn

At 67 yrs old...and semi-retired....Bought my '07 Bluetec ( 53,000 miles ) last AUG. My first diesel, wanted to try MB's "clean diesel" . Then joined MBWorld to see all the arguing about Aluminum V-6 vs iron block I-6. TOO LATE NOW ... we'll see. Car is very impressive with massive low end torque. YES !!

Two weeks after buying it, an occasional click/click/click would come from in or under the center console storage box. It went away, then came back at 30 - 40 days, more insistent now. I figured it was a relay in the console. When it got really annoying 1500 miles ( and 3 months after buying ) , the MB dealer found it was a pressed in bearing in between the front and reap prop shaft ( right under the console ). The bearing was walking back and forth on machined front hub of rear prop shaft. With the used car warranrty expired, that was $1,606. It was $900 for new rear prop shaft. Now it's nice and quiet.

As second "pleasure & trip car" the budget is only 6,000 miles per yr, so I figure it'll be OK for awhile. Now ( 2300 miles after buy ) there's a hint of diesel fuel smell in closed garage after shut off... can't find it yet.

7 speed gearbox KICKS back into first gear when cold...but is OK after the box gets warmed up. A December 2011 400 mile interstate trip at manually controlled 65 mph showed 39.9 mpg in two way average .... 1620 rpm at 60 mph... exactly HALF that of older (late '60's - early '70's MB 280 SE sedan with 2.8 liter in-line 6 ).

For me ( 5'11", 158 pounds ), the drivers seat is agony after 90 min, with soft/soft initial layer under seat cover ( MB Tex) having my butt bones going down into the next harder layer. For $375 I can get brand new rubber seat cushion with electric heat pad ( from MB dealer ) and have recommended body trim shop do the retro. That's for MARCH.

Fingers Crossed ..... I had ONE DPF cleaning cycle go on as I shut the car off in garage one night. Could tell by the smell of HEAT in/under the car. HOLY SH#* ... I started the car IMMEDIATELY and drove it another 15 miles. All was well when we got back home ..... Yeah, Fingers Crossed for the future.

I interrupt my DPF cleaning cylce almost weekly, as I'm now working only 3 miles from home. I hate to do it, but I'm not changing my life around a car, and MB never said it's problematic to do so. I just get the feeling that stopping it halfway through means I'm basically eating up two regen cycles when I only need one, but oh well. I've put 33k on my car, and will have had it for 2 years in May. The first 18 months were extreme stress, driving on the beltway for 45 miles a day. So far I've changed the ball joints (common for W211s). I have creaking sometimes in my pano roof (also common), and my transmission is a little clunky when very cold. I did fix a lot of tranny problems with firmware upgrades though. Performance is stellar, but it's not a sports car. I've had it chipped in one capacity or another since purchase. I live in an area that requires smog checks, so I haven't even bothered to try and remove the DPF.

[MPH 350SDL]

Green,

I believe you are confusing regen (vaporizing soot in the DPF) with the fans running to cool the engine. The fans will run when the car is off, but the regen system simply will not fuction when the engine is off. You are probably hearing the fans continued operation after a passive regen has occured. This does apply to all makes.

[Green E-300 DT]

Originally Posted by MPH 350SDL

Green,

I believe you are confusing regen (vaporizing soot in the DPF) with the fans running to cool the engine.
The fans will run when the car is off, but the regen system simply will not fuction when the engine is off.
You are probably hearing the fans continued operation after a passive regen has occured.
This [probably] does apply to all makes.

Agreed. But the burn must continue once it is started.
I think it is better when you are running down the highway and not parked, especially in your garage.

I'm speaking only of the VW TDIs now because those are the vehicles I know.
I have had experience with theVW TDI, but no other diesels that have DPFs that require regeneration.
Perhaps other makes have DPFs that are located far enough downstream
or under the vehicle to not require the cooling fan to be operating?

Should you shut the engine off during a regeneration, of course there will no longer be raw fuel being injected
into the cylinders via the so-called fifth injection cycle which only occurs when the computer directs
that it is time for a DPF regeneration.
Now the 'burn off' is occuring and the terribly high heat is there within the engine compartment on the VW TDIs
as the DPF is located there and not under the vehicle, the fans are on at full speed to try and keep the
underhood temperture down to where other components under the hood will not be harmed.
The burn is on and has to finish and the DPF must be cooled down some before the fans will stop.
Because this raw fuel is injected after the full normal injection cycle, it is exhausted into the DPF where it burns
thus cleaning the accumulated build up of soot.
When sensors determine that the DPF burn is finished, then and only then will the fans stop.
Because of this 'extra injection cycle,' raw fuel also builds up in the crankcase,
thus requiring the need at least in the VWs for oil with a 507.00 SAE designation.
For the MBZs, it is 229.51. The only difference is the viscosity of these oils.
The VW oil is SAE 5W-30 where our MBZs call for an SAE 5W-40 weight.
Interesting that MBZ requires that same SAE designation for the CDIs which do not have DPFs.

With the CDIs, there is no raw fuel build up in the crankcase.



Derrel

[DubVBenz]

The DPF is in the exhaust system, not the engine compartment. They are located under the car and are inline. If you interrupt it, the "burn" does not continue, it simply cools off and starts again once you start driving. If mercedes truly felt interruptions were an issue, they would have put some sort of indicator in the cockpit so you were aware it was occurring and would continue driving until complete.

This may be the case on the VWs, but not on the bluetecs.