E320 CDI vs. E320 BLUETEC

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by ImInPA Then you are simply misinformed how the United States government operates. The President cannot pass any laws that impact anything. That is the role of the congress. Understanding your intent to bring up that it is possible that legislation may impact diesels, your fears are misdirected at the wrong branch of government. The real fact is that the Oil companies are arbitrarily reducing the east coast refining capacity by 43% through refinery closings. This will create an artificial shortage which will certainly drive up prices and their profits. As a fiscal conservative, this speaks to the need to regulate the obviously "crooked" oil industry. Keep in mind too that Obama and our Congress all make up the 1%. So, quit your complaining and vote to change things. No disrespect to your President but he is a socialist with a big S, undermining the capitalistic principals that built America into what it was in WWII and giving the world great soldiers like Generals George Patton and Douglas MacArthur. My family suffered under the Communists and I am always weary of creeping "benign socialism", a disease prevalent in the 21st century. Socialism is a slow growing pre-malignant tumor and Communism is terminal cancer with liver secondaries. What has the Hawaiian socialist got to do with diesel engines? He and his tree-hugging friends want to dictate to us what we can and cannot drive! Say no to battery cars.

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[ImInPA]

Actually that Hawian socialist, as you seem determined to label him, gave me a damn nice tax credit for buying a diesel car. His predessor only offered tax incentives for Hummers and other gas guzzlers. So if you are even remotely sincere, about what you claim to be in favor of, you need to get your facts in order. Obama has been an avid supporter of alternative fuels (diesel is considered an alternative fuel for cars in the US). I guess the real question is, why don't the non-socialists give a damn about alternative fuels. Peace.

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by ImInPA

Actually that Hawian socialist, as you seem determined to label him, gave me a damn nice tax credit for buying a diesel car. His predessor only offered tax incentives for Hummers and other gas guzzlers. So if you are even remotely sincere, about what you claim to be in favor of, you need to get your facts in order. Obama has been an avid supporter of alternative fuels (diesel is considered an alternative fuel for cars in the US). I guess the real question is, why don't the non-socialists give a damn about alternative fuels. Peace.

Peace to you too bro.

Forget politics and onto good news. Audi is bringing in a diesel A8 to the USA as a 2013 model and BMW is doing a M5 sedan diesel car with a tri-turbo. The former is rumored to be 245 - 313 bhp! I am sure this TDI engine will filter down to the A6 eventually, to compete with the MB Bluetec. If so, MB would have to boost the miserly 240 bhp higher, much higher and put in a 4Matic, to compete with Audi. The consumer wins again.

[isstay]

And diesel Porsche Cayenne is coming

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2012/01...d-all-new.html

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by ImInPA

....The real fact is that the Oil companies are arbitrarily reducing the east coast refining capacity by 43% through refinery closings. .....

From recent news articles including the WSJ and Newark Star Ledger, Sunoco closed its refining on the East Coast simply due to lack of profits. The facts include greater imports from Europe of refined gasolines and less demand. Not arbitrary and not political.

PL

[ImInPA]

It is amazing how they spin it. Originally it was becuase it was excess refining capacity. It is not in the US best interest to reduce our refining cpacities. Used to be considered treason during war times. Anyhow, as long as some of the tasty diesels make it to the US i will be happy.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by ImInPA

It is amazing how they spin it. Originally it was becuase it was excess refining capacity. It is not in the US best interest to reduce our refining cpacities. Used to be considered treason during war times. Anyhow, as long as some of the tasty diesels make it to the US i will be happy.

From what little I know, it makes more sense to refine crude in the South, i.e. Louisiana, since diesel fuel is exported from the US to mostly South America and through the Caribbean and gasoline is imported from Europe. Sunoco was in the North East where it would logically cost more to both refine and transport the crude. They continue to be a supplier. This may be one reason for diesel to be so expensive in the North East, but I also believe it is discriminated against as a fuel. Funny how according to some estimates, the 2012 Passat TDI is cleaner "from well to wheel" than the new Nissan electric! http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=37

Internet stories about the US losing refining capacity aren't true. I've been following the oil industry peripherally and they have been slowly expanding their refining capacity by both increasing the output of refineries and adding new ones (when the government and local rules allow I suppose).

PL

[motorcaster57]

I don't know all the differences and could not be considered an expert in any way between the gas e320 and the bluetece320... But I bought a 2005 e320 cdi with 100000 miles for about $16000 and have been astounded by the solidness of this vehicle.. I've put about 30,000 miles in 9 months... My highway mileage with AC running is about 35mpg running 70-75 mph. And I have been told that a diesel motor burns about one tenth as much fuel at idle as a gas motor. I don't know if this is true, but I get nearly 30mpg driving in the city with frequent stops as Raleigh NC has plenty of Stoplights..... And the power of this vehicle from 0-70 is astounding... As a traveling salesman, I don't think I could have made a better choice.... I am 6'4" and weigh 245 and the seats are very comfortable.....

[ImInPA]

Let us rejoice in the new diesel choices we will soon have. BMW, Porche, Audi, VW, to name a few. I would like to see the return of the Volvo diesels too. I personally think diesel is a far better choice than hybrids. I always wonder where they will be burying the batteries from them. Diesel is just cleaner today.

[zemun1234]

Originally Posted by ImInPA

Let us rejoice in the new diesel choices we will soon have. BMW, Porche, Audi, VW, to name a few. I would like to see the return of the Volvo diesels too. I personally think diesel is a far better choice than hybrids. I always wonder where they will be burying the batteries from them. Diesel is just cleaner today.

The official story is that diesel can be used up to 40 % of total usage in North America (due to refinery capacity).

I am temporary in Evrope and I am so envy what kind of car I can see it here (MB, BMW, Audi,...all diesel)

I agree - Volvo diesel would be very high on my list

[bfisher]

I too am in traveling sales - and am on my 4th MB diesel (retired my last E300 with 344,000 miles that I put on all myself). I have many people ride in my car and they are astounded with the diesel. I always get the same question - "isn't diesel hard to find?" Nope

Before buying this E320, I was waiting for an Audi A6 or A8 diesel or a BMW 5 diesel... neither materialized here so another E it is. Wish the other mfg's would start selling them here... I love my MB but competition is always good.

[DubVBenz]

MB is great, but the bluetec engine is the lowest powered of all of them. A 300HP 500 Ft/Lbs of torque beast would be enough to keep a smile on my face permanently. Oh yea, it has to be decent sized vehicle too..

[Hondo78]

May I weigh in on this discussion, having a CDI '05 and loving it. Change your fuel supplier and pay your highway fuel tax.
* Big Oil has kept good technology away for many years
* Big Oil keeps the rumor mill grinding to keep Bio fuels off the shelf
* Change your fuel source to locally produced fuels or make it yourself with a co-op if you can.
* Change your politicians to those looking out 15-20 years, when the current products are about gone.
* Buy a centrifuge and a few books on producing bio fuels and supplement your current fuel.
* Diesels are great clean engines, however they are only provided "byproduct" fuel at the USA pumps
* 880 Las Vegas School buses all run on non Dino Diesel

Research the need for Catalyzed particulates and test your vehicle without one, off highway of course. Third world countries thrive with our old technologies.
Convert your muscle cars fuel systems to alcohol mine run better cleaner cooler and faster with an E85 blend, no longer need 105 octane. Sunday cars..
Wake up Americans, these Big Oil supporters are not our friends. Germany does not tax bio fuels to encourage the use by consumers. So your car will run on it safely the German pumps prove it.

[Green E-300 DT]

Originally Posted by Hondo78

May I weigh in on this discussion, having a CDI '05 and loving it.
Change your fuel supplier and pay your highway fuel tax.

Research the need for Catalyzed particulates and test your vehicle without one,
off highway of course. Third world countries thrive with our old technologies.

Wake up Americans, these Big Oil supporters are not our friends.
Germany does not tax bio fuels to encourage the use by consumers.
So your car will run on it safely. The German pumps prove it.

So . .

What are you doing for fuel for your CDI?



DHG

[Greasey Bob]

My 05 has run 20k miles on Straight Waste Vegetable Oil. (WVO) Required a little work to do it. I purchased the 05-06 time period on purpose to get the I6 not the V6. I really do not like DPF.

[isstay]

Originally Posted by Greasey Bob

My 05 has run 20k miles on Straight Waste Vegetable Oil. (WVO) Required a little work to do it. I purchased the 05-06 time period on purpose to get the I6 not the V6. I really do not like DPF.

Do you think this was the cause your engine to go south?

[Hondo78]

I'm running B50 currently, no modifications-
I can purchase B20 or B80 as well here locally. Or make it..

* No tank heater or line heater

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

So . .

What are you doing for fuel for your CDI?



DHG

[Hondo78]

Originally Posted by Greasey Bob

My 05 has run 20k miles on Straight Waste Vegetable Oil. (WVO) Required a little work to do it. I purchased the 05-06 time period on purpose to get the I6 not the V6. I really do not like DPF.

What work or modifications did you perform to your '05?

DPF? __ __ Partic. filter?

[Green E-300 DT]

Originally Posted by Hondo78

What work or modifications did you perform to your '05?

DPF? __ __ Partic. filter?

Are you not that familiar with your CDI?

In North America, CDIs are only used in the 2005-2006 model years and they do not have DPFs

That is one of the reasons that makes the '05 and '06 MYs the models of choice IMHO!
One could not use high percentages of biodiesel IF they had either.
AND the DPFs used beginning in 2007 are an exhaust restriction to boot.

That is probably one of the reasons that the 648.961 motor
'puts out' so much better than the later V6s.
Sounds to me like those who are using biodiesel have not done anything
to modify their CDIs other than simply putting bio. into their tanks.

I have run B10 in mine, but not regularly as I believe that in so doing, I lose fuel economy.

Your mileage may vary.



DHG

[DubVBenz]

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

Are you not that familiar with your CDI?

In North America, CDIs are only used in the 2005-2006 model years and they do not have DPFs

That is one of the reasons that makes the '05 and '06 MYs the models of choice IMHO!
One could not use high percentages of biodiesel IF they had either.
AND the DPFs used beginning in 2007 are an exhaust restriction to boot.

That is probably one of the reasons that the 648.961 motor
'puts out' so much better than the later V6s.
Sounds to me like those who are using biodiesel have not done anything
to modify their CDIs other than simply putting bio. into their tanks.

I have run B10 in mine, but not regularly as I believe that in so doing, I lose fuel economy.

Your mileage may vary.



DHG

The I6 certainly puts out more smoke, but performance is basically identical, with a slight nod going to the V6.

[Greasey Bob]

I think the person who had it before me did not change the oil that much at the end and then I missed an oil change which is a bad idea when running on WVO. If I blow it up again with regular oil changes I will say it is the oil.

I saved enough money on fuel to pay for the used engine. But not worth the effort.

[Green E-300 DT]

Originally Posted by DubVBenz

The I6 certainly puts out more smoke, but performance is basically identical, with a slight nod going to the V6.

You've got the first point right, but the last two points are completely WRONG.
The V6 does not and can not smoke because of the DPF.

As far as their performances being equal? In what manner?

Fuel economy? No way! Compare the Fuelly entries for both models.

Quarter mile or 0-60 times? The 648.961 straight six has the edge there also.

Dyno readings? Check mine out below in my signature.

Ask yourself how a motor with only 3 liters can put out more than one with 3.222 Liters.

I rest my case.



DHG

[DubVBenz]

Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT

You've got the first point right, but the last two points are completely WRONG.
The V6 does not and can not smoke because of the DPF.

As far as their performances being equal? In what manner?

Fuel economy? No way! Compare the Fuelly entries for both models.

Quarter mile or 0-60 times? The 648.961 straight six has the edge there also.

Dyno readings? Check mine out below in my signature.

Ask yourself how a motor with only 3 liters can put out more than one with 3.222 Liters.

I rest my case.



DHG

MB quoted and car magazine times for 0-60 and the 1/4 show a slight edge to the v6. I6 has slightly more hp, V6 has slightly more torque. V6 is lighter and has the 7-speed. The v6 will win every race. If only both cars were a little more common, perhaps I'd see one at a stoplight one day to find out.

It's funny, on every single mercedes forum, the only people that talk trash about the V6 are I6 owners. It's almost like you have to justify your purchase to yourself.... Good for you, keep on smokin there Mr Greenie.

[Greasey Bob]

I do not ever notice smoke from my cdi. My 1984 now that is smoke maybe it is a comparison thing.

I have never driven the V-6 Diesel.

My ideal motor would be an I6 diesel with 4 valve heads, with 6 exhaust valves on each side and 6 intakes on each side, alternating. This would make a more even temperature range. It would have twin turbo's and twin intercoolers. The left side would blow into the right side bank and the reverse.

I am sure that the V-6 was designed for packaging Not for better engineering. But that is the world we live in.

[Green E-300 DT]

Originally Posted by DubVBenz

MB quoted and car magazine times for 0-60 and the 1/4 show a slight edge to the V6 . [Oh really?]
I-6 has slightly more hp, V6 has slightly more torque. V6 is lighter and has the 7-speed. The V6 will win every race.
If only both cars were a little more common, perhaps I'd see one at a stoplight one day to find out.

It's funny, on every single Mercedes forum, the only people that talk trash about the V6 are I-6 owners.
It's almost like you have to justify your purchase to yourself . . .
Good for you, keep on smokin there Mr. Greenie.

Several things you say are not correct!

First off, I am from Missouri (the show me state!) not true, as I
am a Californian but 'show me' these figures and the sources.
You are wrong when you say the I-6 has more advertised horsepower. It does not.
Also, MBZ quotes the V6 having more torque, but it does not!
My I-6 does have more torque than MBZ quotes. By at least 15 ft/lb. to the wheels.
And more horsepower too; 211 hp vs the advertised 201 hp.

The 5G transmission is the trans of choice, although I wise I had the 10 percent higher
overall gear ratio that the 7G tranny provides over my five speed.
Many people have complained about how the seven speed trannies (the 7G) are not programmed
properly to the diesel engines and hold the gears too long.

Ask yourself why the S65 the CL65 and the SL65 vehicles still use the
5G transmission? It is because the 5G is the stronger and simplier transmission.

One of the reason many of the CDI I-6 owners talk about their vehicles is because we all know them
to be far superior to the later cars that MBZ brought here beginning with the 2007 V6 cars.

We will agree that the V6 engine is lighter (it is after all, all aluminum!) so why is the 2007 listed
as being heavier than the 2005-2006 CDI I-6 that has a cast iron block?
Could it be that the seven speed trans is heavier than the old five speed transmission?

I want to see some times for the later V6 diesels at the drags before
I will agree that they are faster or quicker than the I-6 CDIs.

As far as fuel economy is concerned, do a comparison for the Fuelly entries for the 2005-2006
CDIs in North America vs the 2007 and later 3.0 liter V6 for North America.
The I-6 blows the V6 away and their fuel economy is not even close.

One of the reason is that their DPF chokes off the exhaust.
Our I-6 CDIs do not require that, so they do breath better.

The same thing happens when comparing the 2007 and later PU diesels with the older models.

I am going to Irwindale tomorrow. Perhaps there will be a V6 diesel there?



DHG