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We have visible proof that something very wrong is occurring here:
This is sludge. This, to me, is clear indication of incorrect oil being used. Sludge occurs when an oil is heated past what it is designed for. When insufficient oil enters the turbocharger it gets overheated and essentially burned. There is enough oil pressure at the turbo to push this burned oil out, and it drains to the oil pan and settles, collects at the bottom.
Sludge blocked the oil pickup tube, resulting in a loss of oil pressure, resulting in seizing of the crank. Engine should be rebuildable if the cylinders didn't score too badly. New main bearings, rod bearings, rings and a hone job might do it. However, the entire motor should be cleaned because there is certainly sludge hidden throughout the oil passages in the head, block etc.
Nothing do with how the oil was change (top side v drain) or the shape of anything. Just wrong oil.
I have never seen any sludging in an OM642 where the owner had done their own oil changes from day 1 with correct 229.51 oil. When inspecting these engines they are completely clean inside.
Sludge can occur when the correct oil is used. Just have the oil pass over a very hot area (e.g. turbo) or flow was restricted. His has occurred when exhaust pipes are too close to the oil pan or oil pathway. The oil thickens and/or cokes in a channels.
Solutions have been to re-route pipes, install larger radiator and turn off fan sooner (e.g., Toyota Sienna), having a larger oil cooler, enlarge and/or straighten oil return lines. A failed oil pump will cause sludge. You likely won't be able to tell what failed first the pump or oil.
I doubt that the suction method will remove much sludge or coke. Once the sludge starts, it grows in size.
Not saying this is occurring the the OM642, just that these problem and fixes have occurred in other cars.
Last edited by dave2001auto; 07-25-2016 at 08:30 PM.
Sludge can occur when the correct oil is used. Just have the oil pass over a very hot area (e.g. turbo) or flow was restricted. His has occurred when exhaust pipes are too close to the oil pan or oil pathway. The oil thickens and/or cokes in a channels.
Solutions have been to re-route pipes, install larger radiator and turn off fan sooner (e.g., Toyota Sienna), having a larger oil cooler, enlarge and/or straighten oil return lines. A failed oil pump will cause sludge. You likely won't be able to tell what failed first the pump or oil.
I doubt that the suction method will remove much sludge or coke. Once the sludge starts, it grows in size.
Not saying this is occurring the the OM642, just that these problem and fixes have occurred in other cars.
I can't speak for the Toyota Sienna specifically, but I know of multiple instances of "sludging" that resulted in revised (read: upgraded) oil recommendations. Usually this involved upgrading the recommendation from a traditional or blend oil to a Group 3/4 synthetic.
My point is that a proper 229.51 will not sludge in this motor.
Some brands of oil may not safely achieve the normal oil change interval either, compared to the MB branded oil. If you take a look at my Oil analysis thread, you will see that the M1 ESP, which meets both the 229.51 and 229.52 spec, shows trending signs of break down at 10,000kms compared to the MB 229.52, which still shows good at 18,000kms.
Key observations:
1. straight line increase in viscosity (normally would expect a drop before thickening starts to occur)
2. Drop in flashpoint below recommended spec
3. Signs of oxidation
Excess oil in intercooler and exhuast due to turbo failure
After a turbo rebuilt using an XATurbo rebuilding kit, oil has flooded these two area. What are the best way to clean out the oil before the oil smudges?
seems to me a steady leak of oil from turbo can start an oil smudging cascade
I never hesitated to spray water under good pressure from garden hose on any of my engines.
On gasoline engine I am not directing water on coils, but they get wet.
On older engines water would foul a plug wire, so sometimes I drove for 1/4 mile with missing cylinder, but it would dry out with heat.
I think that becomes a little more problematic with newer engines because of the amount of electronics and what not. First time I encountered it was with an early '90's Dodge. Washed the engine and the car never worked properly again after that. Had to replace some sort of computer module.
Electronics suppose to be extremely well protected. Even when the lid seal fails, whole boards are covered with epoxy or other stuff.
On my Blutec I had Glow Plug Module dying what happen next day after 3rd engine wash (dealer kept the engine very dirty).
I was wondering if my washing might participate in the failure, so took the module apart.
Perfectly dry and clean inside, yet something gave a ghost.
I've been flooding my electronic Powerstrokes with water for years and never had a failure.
Sure when you deal with set of injectors that cost 6 grands to replace -you worry.
No. Those hard to reach places generally get left uncleaned. Which is not a big deal because they don't get all that dirty unless there's a leak or spill of some sort, which I haven't had.
When I changed an injector, I got in there with a toothbrush to get the black death off.
As I said, my engine was kept very filthy by the servicing dealer, when the rest of the car was pristine.
Suspecting oil cooler leak I wanted to pinpoint the leak and for that you need the engine perfectly clean. Took me 3 washing before I could see bottom of the valley.
Turned out my cooler was replaced but I had unsealed turbo intake, where breather was spitting oil residue and later discovered broken oring on turbo outlet pipe.
The few seconds I take twice a year to wash the engine, always pay back in time when you have to troubleshoot something.
Sure having 150 psi city water pressure and commercial water nozzles helps a lot.
was told that the new oils are conductive and creep along wires. It causes shorts such as at the swirl motor.
What is a great way to clean out att the oil that got in the DPF for burning will leave high amount of SAPS?
also great deal on Liq moly 299.52 oil at idparts 5L for $40
[QUOTE=marc hanna;6870160]Some brands of oil may not safely achieve the normal oil change interval either, compared to the MB branded oil. If you take a look at my Oil analysis thread, you will see that the M1 ESP, which meets both the 229.51 and 229.52 spec, shows trending signs of break down at 10,000kms compared to the MB 229.52, which still shows good at 18,000kms.
Which M1 and viscosity did you use? MB 229.52 is made by Exxon Mobil. But what EM product best match the MB product? Is it the non-M1 line on the bevo list?
MB 229.52 is made by Exxon Mobil. But what EM product best match the MB product? Is it the non-M1 line on the bevo list?[/QUOTE]
That was from mods on the USA product
Got some 229.52 lie moly 4605 that has a very high mileage rating. But do not know if that rating is for gas or diesel.
I am concerned about all the ASPS that will be left in the dpf or dpf overheating with a burnout after being flood with oil
BTW: I noticed the the SAPS are now at Liq Moly Top Tec 5W-30 4605 229.52 is NMt 0.8% instead of NMT 0.6% on 229.51 oil. As with the 229.5x oil, the 30 is on the very high viscosity side of 30 oil. HTST is NLT 3.5 mPas Possible the dpf was not a sensitive as originally thought to be.
Too bad HD Diesel engine oil (5W-40), it both too thick and too high in SAPS. The 229.52 are getting more reasonable in price these days. How long before the prices goes up again?
I don't think the viscosity is so much the issue as it is the low-SAPS. I think the BlueTec is a long term emissions solution, so there shouldn't be any technology related cost increases, prices would be dependent on cost of producing additives and base-stocks.
I don't think the viscosity is so much the issue as it is the low-SAPS. I think the BlueTec is a long term emissions solution, so there shouldn't be any technology related cost increases, prices would be dependent on cost of producing additives and base-stocks.
Mercedes 299.5x oil have a very high viscosity for the 30 weight oil and very low for the 40 weight oil. The hd-delo 40 weight is quite high in viscosity and extreme high base and sheer strength. Great engine protection and durable oil but the mercedes car dpf can't take the higher SAPS. Why can mercedes make or use a dpf that can take the high SAPS like the trucks?
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Originally Posted by dave2001auto
was told that the new oils are conductive and creep along wires. It causes shorts such as at the swirl motor.
What is a great way to clean out att the oil that got in the DPF for burning will leave high amount of SAPS?
also great deal on Liq moly 299.52 oil at idparts 5L for $40
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Originally Posted by dave2001auto
MB 229.52 is made by Exxon Mobil. But what EM product best match the MB product? Is it the non-M1 line on the bevo list?
That was from mods on the USA product
Got some 229.52 lie moly 4605 that has a very high mileage rating. But do not know if that rating is for gas or diesel.
I am concerned about all the ASPS that will be left in the dpf or dpf overheating with a burnout after being flood with oil[/QUOTE]
Originally Posted by dave2001auto
Mercedes 299.5x oil have a very high viscosity for the 30 weight oil and very low for the 40 weight oil. The hd-delo 40 weight is quite high in viscosity and extreme high base and sheer strength. Great engine protection and durable oil but the mercedes car dpf can't take the higher SAPS. Why can mercedes make or use a dpf that can take the high SAPS like the trucks?
The simple answer to the dpf is space!
There is no viscosity issue here. Blending to the higher end of a specific viscosity range just increases the price of the formulation. Today the heavier base stocks are more expensive than the lighter ones.
Originally Posted by marc hanna The cheapest way to clean out the dpf is to go for a long high speed drive to get the engine good and hot and to invoke a regen cycle.
Making an oil electrolytic while preserving functional properties is actually a rather complex process. It also adds a lot of cost to the product. It certainly would not be an unintended side affect. With machine coolants, electrolytic oils (used for spark erosion processes) are triple the price of other oil coolants. If you thought your low-SAPS oil was expensive now, make it conduct electricity
07-20-2016, 01:20 PM
