ashman

Well I started my car this morning, it fired up then died right away.

I tested the car as much as I could. Here is ehat I found out.

1. There is fuel in the car.
2. There is fuel getting into the engine.
3. I pulled a spark plug (After trying to start the car several times, and it had fuel on it, And turned the car over with the spark plug hooked up to the wire and I believe I am simply not getting a spark or maybe I am not getting enough of a spark.
4. I checked all fuses, and all fuses are good.
5. Battery is good and fully charged.
6. Fuel pumps are running when ignition is turned on. I am not sure if they are supposed to always make noise, but when turning on the ignition, I hear the fuel pumps buzz for a few seconds. I believe this is what it has always done.

I suspect it is either the coil pack or that unit that sits on the fender behind the ABS Pump, which I think is the Ignition control module or something to that effect.

Anybody have any ideas?

Car is a 1992 300CE-24 M104 Engine

Car was running fine on saturday. I didn't drive it on sunday.

I will be towing it to my mechanic in the morning, but I would like to be armed with information if I can. Or maybe there is something I can test that will verify what the problem is...

Thanks,

AshMan

mike690003

Is the car in park??
Sounds silly, but I did that before.

Check the fuel pump relay too, maybe you can swap one out. I had that go out TWICE on my W124.

NorCal124

How bout' the starter? Those things quit whenever they feel like it.

ashman

wont start in neutral or park...

Starter is fine. The problem from my quick diagnostics is that I am not getting a spark...

So my only thoughts are the ignition coil, or the control module on the fender. this of course is also after talking to my mechanic and describing the problem. Car turns over, neutral safety switch is fine, car is getting fuel, but just not firing, so something has to be up with spark.. no spark = no go.. so I just need to find out what I can test to verify what it is.

on my car, the control module ont he fender has the R16 resistor on it. and it has several other items plugged into this plate mounted on the fender.

This is what I suspect is the problem.

I hear a clicking when I turn ont he key as if something is clicking on then off, coming from that fender area, but the ignition coil is right near there too..

Also I just remembered that fuse D was blown in the fusebox, but I replaced it...

It's just annoying, I havent had my car back for more than a few days, and this happened.

AshMan

YNVDIZW124

DUDE I just sold it on ebay but it may be the fuel pump relay. Does it make a clicking noise when it starts?? if it does try moving the fuel pump relay and see if it starts. Fuel pump relays will make it want to start but will just die because it's only using the fuel in the line.

OH you can re-solder the bad contacts because sometimes they get rusted. Also tell me if you need a used fuel pump relay. pm me. We can also go look for the other stuff at the same time.

ashman

Well its got fuel, it turns over, and there is probably no spark, as I pulled a plug and hooked it up to the wire and I did not see any spark...

The spark plugs were wet with fuel indicating that fuel is pumping.

But No spark, as far as I can tell.

I'm going to just tow it to my mechanic... and let him figure it out. he wont charge me much to fix it, probably just parts and a minimal labor charge...

YNVDIZW124

Just try this move the fuel pump relay around and see if it makes a clicking noise even if the car is not turned on. Yes there is going to be fuel because it's the one left in the line. These relays don't just fail at once they do work for 2-3 min, fail, and work again...etc. Im just telling you because i had this problem and i didn't have to spend on a tow truck or mechanic. It was just $50 for a used relay and it has been working great for 1/2 a year now.

ashman

where is the relay located? In my car, the only things behind the battery are the MAS Box, ECM or BCM, and the OVP...

Under my fuse box there are several relays, some grey ones, some beige ones and a green one, as well as two large black multi function relays...

I am pretty sure there is fuel, as When trying to start, and then looking in the engine compartment, I could smell fuel, and the fuel on the plug was a giveaway...

I am not sure if my car has the same relay setup as your m103 engined sedan...

But I would think that after pulling a spark plug and not seeing any spark, that that would tell us there is a different issue other than fuel...

I might as well take it to my mechanic , I don't have the time to spend on fixing my car myself right now... Without the car I am losing way more money on not being able to go to my computer clients than if I had the car to use. I could have earned probably the cost of the repair just tonight if I could have scheduled a client...

I'm not saying I don;t want help trying to figure it out, but I just don;t have time to explore any further as I am pretty sure I have no spark..

AshMan

YNVDIZW124

n e news on the car not running?

ashman

Not yet. My mechanic had to leave the shop on an emergency for a few days, and his employee is swamped with other repairs, so he hasn't had a chance to look at it much, but he did confirmt here is no spark.

I mentioned to him the following that could be causing it:

Coil

Ignition module on fender

Crank sensor

and one of the units by the battery could be the cause. We havent looked into it further, except to confirm we have no spark, but we have fuel..

I hope it is not the unit by the battery...

Either way I will find out in a few days. good thing I have a car I can drive while mine is being fixed.

If my mechanic was at his shop, the car would probably be fixed by now. it is unfortunate he had an emergency he had to attend to that is delaying my car being fixed..

Arnie

I am almost willing to bet its the OVP relay. Same thing happened to me before, and that's where the problem was. I pried mine open and it was full of jelly-like substance from the moisture. I had to replace it, and it was around $85.

ashman

The problem is that anytime anything ina w124 goes wrong the first thing people say is its the ovp.

In some cases that resolves a problem. but from my experience, if the ovp fails, that wont stop the car from starting, it will cause other problems.

My mechanic will figure it out.

ashman

Well so still no go on the car starting...

My mechanic has determined that it is simply not getting a spark.

THis is what has been tested so far with replacement parts and still no go. The parts were taken from a running vehicle and no luck.

1. Crank sensor
2. Coil
3. Ignition module
4. Cap wires and rotor
5. Spark plugs

The only we have not checked is a main control unit which costs areound $400, which he is investigating. he does not just want to throw parts into it.

The only other thing we can think of is that some relay somewhere has gone bad, but we wont know until he has had a chance to look into it further. He had a mild heart attack last saturday and is only just getting back to work as of yesterday, so he hasn;t had much time to work on the car.

Anybody have any ideas I can throw his way?

AshMan

YNVDIZW124

Then there should be something wrong between the alternator or battery? The ECU can be found for less than $400 at a salvage yard. I think they sell for $125 or $150 at AMC?

OH DID YOU CHECK IF POWER IS GOING TO THE IGNITION MODULE??

ashman

yes power is going to the ignition module, coil and everything that is supposed to get power is getting it. Just no spark is happening.

Alternator is new and wiring for alternator is new as well I had that done when I replaced the alternator.

He is investigating the ignition wiring diagram for the car and is going to test each and every components, but he is still coming back to this one component that may be the culprit.

If it turns out ot be the $400 part, I will just get the $400.00 part, I would rather have a new one than a used one int he case this oculd happen again.

YNVDIZW124

The ECU new is not $400 because i was looking for one back when i had another 300e it was more like $900-$1000 new. Have you check that the coil is getting power? did you change the wires? this is strange because if the coil is getting power it should give spark?

ashman

the coil and is getting power across the terminals he even tried the coil from another car and still no start.

We are thinking that maybe it is the MAS Engine systems control unit.. Behind the battery, but we don't want to change that if it is not the problem, and the price on that is around $400.00 he told me, but he doesn't want to change that unless it is absolutely necessary

He'll figure it out I am sure, just looking for other things that has not been tried.

Professor Booty

Aahhhh I see I am having the same problem as you. I forgot that you have an M104 as well. Good luck getting it fixed. Keep us posted on the progress because for all I know we may have the same problem.

YNVDIZW124

???? that's all i gotta say. Any codes on it?

ashman

Abraham thats my mechanics same question ???????????! No codes either. very strange. its got him stumped too. because base don everything we have tried it should have a spark.

YNVDIZW124

did you check the coil wire? how about you get an MSD 6AL box and that's it!! LOL

ashman

LOL I could get a jacobs electronic ignition system, but That would not solve the underlying problem, which is what is causing the problem in the first place.

I know my mechanic will figure it out. it is just a matter of time. I could always get in contact with satish, the master of engine swaps, who is currently working on a 500CE implanting a 500e engine and all into a 300 CE...

YNVDIZW124

Im looking more into a 2jzgte in my benz or a 5.0 HO but the problem with the 5.0 is the steering rack? I'll do it when i find those $10,000 I have lying around the house.

ashman

when I find that $10,000 lying around the house, I'll be buying another car to drie daily. hehe