jrmd01

O.K. so I'm now researching for my next car...probably a W124 coupe

90-92' have the 3.0 M104 CIS-E/LH-SFI - problem: ignition control modules
93-95' have the 3.2 M104 HFM-SFI - problem: wiring harness

Problem for all M104 - head gasket, AC evap, radiator neck

88-89' have the M103
Good...simple DIY engine
Bad...old, valve guide problem, only 177HP

Right now I'm leaning towards getting the 95' (newer, better gas mileage, updated looks), but I wouldn't be opposed to getting an 88-89' with the M103 engines (simple engines to work on, but has problems with valve guide. Lower HP in these engines too...I think it's only 177).

I guess my question is whether or not I should completely avoid the 90-92'? I remember Ashman had a problem with the ignition control module in his car. I believe that part alone cost somewhere around $3,000 for the part alone.

I'd like to hear from mechanics and from other driver's first hand experience. About their experience with the M104. Which one is better in terms of reliability and cost of ownership?

shadowgriffen

I have an 88 TE M103 and after hearing all the harness nightmares I think I'll compensate reliability for looks...

jrmd01

shadowgriffen - I agree the M103 seems to be the more reliable engine because of its simplicity. But it's not without it's own problems. I currently drive an 86' 300E and I've had multiple problems with the idle almost every year for the last 5 years. Good thing is once you've replaced a part, it's good for another 100,000 miles. This year I haven't spent 0.01 cent on the car for unexpected repairs (bought 2 tires and oil).

I'm not going to avoid the 93-95' because of the harness. From what I've been told, once it's been updated/changed you shouldn't have any problems thereafter. Since I'm going to buy the car in June 2007, I'll make sure it's changed or adjust the purchase price to pay for atleast 1/2 the cost to change it.

Thanks for the input....I'd like to hear more opinions.

JR

Chappy

Hi JR,

I purchased my 1991 300CE in 1995 Starmarked with 70K miles on it. I still drive it daily and now have 216,500 miles on it. Since I've put almost 150K miles on it and have lived with it daily for over 11 years, I can at least share my experience with you.

What would you like to know?

brianw430

I got my girlfriend a '90 300E with the 3.0 M104 engine and her experience was barely short of flawless. To this day it was one of my favorite 124's I've owned, she drove it while in college. We never had any trouble with that engine and it was traded in for her CLK with 180,000+ miles and still going strong. So my experience was very good. I loved the car!

Chappy

Hi Brian,

If her's was a 1990 300E (sedan), it had the M103 motor in it.

brianw430

Hey Chappy!

I was just going off his original info:

90-92' have the 3.0 M104 CIS-E/LH-SFI - problem: ignition control modules
93-95' have the 3.2 M104 HFM-SFI - problem: wiring harness

Problem for all M104 - head gasket, AC evap, radiator neck

88-89' have the M103
Good...simple DIY engine
Bad...old, valve guide problem, only 177HP

So whichever engine it was, it was a good one!

Cheers!

ps - Chappy, I have been contemplating trading the CLK for a newer "roomier" model S or CL class. Love the luxury, but still have not convinced myself to part with the CLK. How are you loving yours?

Take care!

Chappy

lol...yeah, the 300CE was the only E-class to get that motor in the U.S. between 1990-1992.

This is your second CLK, right? You had a 430 previously IIRC. Stick with the CLK! What do you need more room for....kids?

brianw430

I see, I was not aware the CE got a different engine...thanks! And actually, yes kids! My girlfriend has kids and are the age where I am shuttling them to every sporting event, practice etc, 7 days a week and before and after school. Coaching also, which means equipment. So far I have been using the ole 400E, but am itching for a more contemporary daily driver like the CL or S. So, maybe the CL or S and keep the CLK! And yes, this is my second, and she also had a CLK. We are also putting a 1,200 square foot addition on her home, so we'll see. Descisions, decisions. I love considering the possibilities!

h22freak

so chappy what kind of engine you have in your 300CE?
did you mention it or i just missed the info?
i own a 1991 300CE (M103) and i'm thinking of selling it to buy one with 104 engine.
what do you suggest? thanx a lot

jrmd01

Chappy;

I've read on multiple forums about the ICM going bad on the 90-92 models (costing approx $3000 to replace). Do you think this is a common problems with these cars or limited to a very few number of people. Also, do you if the replacements are updated or are they also prone to failure?

How has the CIS held up in the newer models? As I"ve stated before I currently drive a 86 300E sedan. I had to do quite a bit of repairs to get the idle to run smooth. I actually had to "cheat" by bypassing the ECU to get that extra 50rpm while in gear.

JR


Brian;

The date on the model years are for the coupe only.

For the sedan
86-92 = M103
93-95 = 3.2 M104

3.0 M104 were never put in the sedans.

JR

Chappy

Perhaps I am lucky (knock on wood)....but have not experienced that issue. Heck, I still have the factory heater core and a/c evap.!

I think if you find a car that has been well maintained and keep the service current, you'll be fine whichever engine you choose. As these cars get older and older, there will be more "issues" with the various systems.

When I bought the car in '95, the major issues were the oil leaks and a/c problems. Also, seat belt presenters that break are expensive to repair...again, mine still work fine. I did replace my driver's side window regulator earlier this year (it's been slow for a while) and replaced the headlight doors as well.

You will drive yourself crazy (not to mention bankrupt!) trying to make an old car 'perfect', unless you intend on fully restoring a classic IMO....money no option type of resto. The 300CEs are not at the point of collectibilty yet.

bjay51d

What the hell are you talking about?!!.You have the nicest ce Ive ever seen.If anything throw a turbo on that beeotch!

Chappy

I have the 3.0L M104

For the U.S. Market the 300CE/E320 coupe received the following engines:

1988-1989 M103 3.0L - 12 valve
1990-1992 M104 3.0L - 24 valve
1993-1995 M104 3.2L - 24 valve

You may have received different engines in your location. We never got a 4 cyl. or diesel.

h22freak

hahaha thanks bjay...
i would sell my car ONLY IF i could get a hand on a 24v 300CE with much much better condition.
other than that, i would be content with the current one but no turbo please.... i want original engine on my car

thanks chappy...
you know you guys are so lucky
in Indonesia, M104 300CEs are considered rare and mostly are 1990-1992 (the ones issued to have more problems with ICM going bad).
and we dont have E320 coupe here. or if there is there would not be more than probably 3 units?
and i dont hear of an M119 124s either here

jrmd01

Can someone tell me how long the E320 engine was kept in production? What other cars got this engine? Where there any problems in those cars?

Chappy

It depends. Mercedes-Benz used inline-6 engines (M103 and M104) in various cars like the SL, S, E (coupe and sedans - both W210 and W124), G, 190E 2.6, and C-class.

Mercedes-Benz also used a V6 (M112) as the the "E320 engine" in the E-W210, SLK, E, CLK, C, ML.

The above is from memory and I'm probably missing some.

jrmd01

Thanks Chappy;

I actually should have been more specific...I was referring to the M104 3.2 and the M104 3.0

I'm still trying to get the pros and cons of both.

MBs Only Now

Hello all. Why is there concern about costly, or so-called impossible to find ICMs for the early m104s with these guys doing primo remanufactured ones? I've come across them on eBay with a warranty for less than $600 USD. It's not inexpensive, but it's also not $3000!