320puller

Hi

I'm a newbie and am about to purchase a 320CE and have located a TT Kit

I have been reading all the related threads, in the Turbo Technics installation notes it says to send the pistons, conrods etc to turbo technics for machining. Is this still the case....does the internals of the engine have to be modified (if so what needs to be done).

Also does the car still drive and idle silky smooth

Garfunkle_W124

Well, welcome to the boards! RBYCC will definitely answer these is a small essay hahaha. Good luck man

RBYCC

WELCOME TO THE FORUM....great venue as anything you ask is bound to be answered, and sometimes even correctly !

I installed on a M103 which has 9.2:1 compression.
The instructions dated 1992 Turbotechnics recommended sending rods and throttle body back to them for machining.
I did neither as you can't get much lower with compression ratio and the throttle body modification was made without any machining.

I believe your M104 has a little over 10.1:1 compression ratio.
The twin Garrett T2's are set to run a maximum boost of about .48bar/7PSI.
This is a resonable amount of boost designed to provide power and durability.
The Mosselman installs ran the same boost without lowering the compression.
If you want to lower compression you can also consider a thicker head gasket.

I'll can only comment on my M103 install.
I bought my 300CE new in May of 1988, so I'm intimate with how it should run and feel.
The combo of the turbo install and modified suspension has provided an even better then stock feel and incredible performance.
Idle does not change and the small turbos spool up quickly so there is zero lag.
Interestingly in my install there is no turbo noise or whistle !!!
The vehicle with the mods becomes "AMG-like", and I can compare it to my 1999 C43, with the edge going to the 300CE

If you are buying the kit direct from the original seller, (Mercedes dealer "Hughes of Beaconsfield" in the U.K.) it will include a full 2" dual exhaust system ( less cat) as pictured below.



After trial and error the final cat selection was twin Magnaflow #59954 2" spun "Metalcats".

Sound wise a slightly more aggressive then stock, deep more like my G55 AMG. not anywhere near a "Ricer" sound....you hear the power. ( I'm not a kid. I'm 59 years old and wouldn't want an annoying exhaust note....it now sounds more like a V-8 then an I-6)

Ask away, that's the purpose of the forum.
I would suggest professional install with a shop that has a Dyno.
We found during the install that the supplied piggy back fuel management system was seriously deficient.
Non adjustable and created a too lean condition under partial boost.
TurboTechnics countered the lean mixture by retarding the timing which will of course diminish power output.
Ended up scrapping all the supplied controls and using a simplistic Split Second AIC control which is 3D mappable using a laptop computer.
In essence your stock electronics don't change and the Split Second fires the two additional injectors installed between the air assembly and throttle body.

Where are you located?
I can suggest my installer who is one of the few in the USA that has experience on M103 and M104 turbo installs going back to when the cars were new

RBYCC

SMART ***...

RogerJones

For my M103, the 1989 Turbo Technics manual says "Engine compression ratio is lowered by shortening the connecting rods [, which] retain the standard big-end shells and therefore crankshaft pin diameter. No other internal engine components are modified. The cylinder head also remains standard, including the head gasket." Also, "The clutch cover is replaced with an uprated item. The clutch plate remains standard." There are two additional injectors in the fuel system, controlled by a Turbo Technics digital control unit.

Power delivery is smooth, so smooth that it deeply impressed my Porsche-dealer neighbour when I gave him a test drive. Idling is smooth, the only persistent niggle being slow warm starting. The exhaust note with the SS integrated system is louder and deeper than normal, quite noticeable on accelerating, but negligible while cruising and, anyway, not at all unpleasant. The Sportline suspension is of the first generation and is very stiff (much stiffer than the Sportline on my 1996 Coupé), but entirely in keeping with the character of the car and making for very flat cornering.

I bought mine from someone who had also owned a 500E. He reckoned the Twin Turbo was faster.

Fuel required: 98+ RON; I get 24 miles out of a UK gallon (significantly better than the 500E). Oil: synth or semi-synth, with Mobil 1 and Shell Gemini recommended. Spark plugs: NGK BP6EFS recommended, with change every 6000 miles. BHP: 310. Torque: 410 Nm.

RBYCC

My guess is that you bought Martin Traynor's car that was featured in the September 2006 "Mercedes Enthusiast" mag?

ZedStyle

i want to sign you up to be a 'moderator' for the w124 section, or failing that, somehow designate you to be 'historian' or 'encyclopedia w124-ica'

RBYCC

Just call me " Dinosaur ".....

Been there, done that, but regretfully as you pass fifty you forget most of it !!!!

Thanks

320puller

Thanks

I'm going to see the car on Thursday....I am in the UK , and these cars can be bought quite reasonably (for now)...the one I am going to see has all the right options.

RogerJones

RBYCC, you guessed right. I bought it before it was featured in the mag. Martin mentioned the possibility of the article at the time, but I forgot all about it and then had a pleasant surprise several months later.

If anyone has any bright ideas about improving the warm starting, I'd be grateful.

RBYCC

You might want to start with components that are temperature related and can affect starting.
Check the cold start valve which may be falsely giving enrichment upon warm starting.
Along with that look at the Fuel pump relay which is the secondary brain of the KE-Jetronic CIS injection.

At some point if you want to revitalize your performance you may want to consider removing the complete piggy back fuel management control system provided by TurboTechnics. It has a non adjustable control unit so AFR are pre set and tend to run lean under boost. They use Hobbs switches to retard the timing and give full throttle enrichment under boost which limits the ability to develop max power.
Some UK Merc specialists are replacing the supplied electronics with an adjustable ERL Aquamist controller.
We used a USA unit from "Split Second" (AIC1)...very simple install.
Connects to 12V Battery +/-, green/yellow speed signal from the tach, intake vacuum to the internal MAP sensor and wiring direct to the two supplemental injectors at the throttle body.
Unit is programmed with a laptop and gives infinite adjustment through the boost rpm range.
We are set at around .85 Lambda throughout the boost where the TurboTechnics would occasionally see a too lean 1.2 Lambda

Garfunkle_W124

Well you didn't prove me wrong

RBYCC

Why would I want to prove you wrong ????

Even you can become verbose with a bit of practice...

Women will be attracted to you when you speak with confidence and sound interesting even if you're not

crr1612

burn!

Garfunkle_W124

I know, just the other day I was spitting out facts about penguin migration to the Antarctic while on a date. She was diggin' it!

320puller

RBYCC Wrote
"I believe your M104 has a little over 10.1:1 compression ratio.
The twin Garrett T2's are set to run a maximum boost of about .48bar/7PSI.
This is a resonable amount of boost designed to provide power and durability.
The Mosselman installs ran the same boost without lowering the compression.
If you want to lower compression you can also consider a thicker head gasket."



So does that mean I don't really need to get my conrods and pistons machined, on the 320 M104
That would be great news....

RBYCC

G-funk, I must say you're a quick learn

RBYCC

Beginning condition of your engine is important, as in strong and equal compression in all cylinders.
Ability to run a premium high octane fuel is imperative as you want to prevent detonation.
Having an adjustable fuel enrichment method which would keep your air fuel ratio around 12.5:1 is necessary.
Turbotechnics is the only system that required the lowering of compression on the M103 and M104 cars.
Discuss it with your installer for his opinion, but 7lbs/.48bar boost should not put undue pressure on a strong engine with a bit more then 10:1 CR assuming that the AFR is correct and the engine will not lean out.

XJguy

Resurrection!!

Ed, since you are the resident turbo guru I am reaching out to you for your experienced advice. I will be doing some forced induction on my m104. At this time I dont want to start rebuilding the engine, so I want to keep my healthy engine unopened. I have been in touch with Turbobandit and Madmodify regarding their setups and what I can do. I am also talking to a consumer that is putting down over 600hp on a stock internals M104....so at least I know its realistic.

The more I read about the setups, the more I am convinced that a supercharger setup would be even better for these cars. Simpler plumbing, instantaneous power, lower cost and since this isn't a race car, I dont have to worry about heat soak, and all day high boost. Yes a turbo is more efficient but since I wont be driving around at 200mph, just an occasional sprint, I think the SC is the best route for my application, and it just so happend I have an Eaton M90 on hand. The setup as far use fuel enrichment, intercooling intake tubing etc is identical to turbo. That being said, what are some things I might be missing from the equation, and what electronics are needed and or changed? Transmission concerns, fuel delivery upgrades and exhaust mods. Thanks for your time.

Richard