Limited Slip Differentials for W124's??
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1959 220S / 1979 230 G / 2002 A210 AMG / 2003 C320 SC / 2004.5 C320 SS / 2005 ML350 SE / 2008 smart
I'm looking at a US-spec 300E (3.2L) that was built by AMG-North America in 1987.
It's an automatic with the 3.27 lsd.
Carlos
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I don't have any documentation on late AMG 124 models, but I suspect the newer AMG 124 cars (124.032, .052, .066, .092) with 3.6L engines had ASR standard instead of ASD. The 3.6 motors had HFM injection which supported ASR.
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Rik, I'm not so sure about that. The original Hammer had a G/T LSD with an automatic tranny. And the 124.031/.051/.091 AMG 300E/CE/TE models, with the 3.4L M104 engines, had ASD as a standard feature according to the "Intro to Service" manual; for both automatic & manual transmissions. ASD is limited-slip with additional hydraulic locking available at low speeds, sort of an "advanced" LSD setup. These cars had M104 engines with mechanical CIS-E injection so ASR was not an option.
I don't have any documentation on late AMG 124 models, but I suspect the newer AMG 124 cars (124.032, .052, .066, .092) with 3.6L engines had ASR standard instead of ASD. The 3.6 motors had HFM injection which supported ASR.
I don't have any documentation on late AMG 124 models, but I suspect the newer AMG 124 cars (124.032, .052, .066, .092) with 3.6L engines had ASR standard instead of ASD. The 3.6 motors had HFM injection which supported ASR.
If you ordered a vehicle from AMG, they would only install the LSD on the manual trans cars, but of course, dealers could order anything and do pretty much anything they wanted.
These were mechanical LSD units, not unlike the 16 valve LSD and were close to 100% lock. They are rare, don't remember the price but they were really expensive back then, hardly anyone ordered these.
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I am aware of the vehicle and the out of place LSD. But like I said, if you ordered a vehicle from AMG, the LSD on a auto was not a option as it was only available in 3.27:1, which is totally wrong gearing for a auto W124. Of course what many did was order the LSD seperate and have it installed later, you also had to use a different speedo. The mechanical AMG LSD is extremely rare.
Last edited by 2PHAST; 09-25-2008 at 12:07 PM.
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1959 220S / 1979 230 G / 2002 A210 AMG / 2003 C320 SC / 2004.5 C320 SS / 2005 ML350 SE / 2008 smart
I am aware of the vehicle and the out of place LSD. But like I said, if you ordered a vehicle from AMG, the LSD on a auto was not a option as it was only available in 3.27:1, which is totally wrong gearing for a auto W124. Of course what many did was order the LSD seperate and have it installed later, you also had to use a different speedo. The mechanical AMG LSD is extremely rare.
I wonder why the 3.27 LSD was installed on this AMG 3.2L 300E automatic ?
Carlos
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I put a 3.27:1 190e LSD in my 2.6 190e (replacing the 2.85:1) and it really improved the 0-60 and 1/4 mile time. My CLK also has been upgraded from a 3.07:1 to a 3.27:1 (non LSD).
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So what do you tell the parts guy you want once you have the right gear and diff? Will they be able to easily look up and LSD for the 210mm diff?
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You'll also need new bearings, the diff won't come with bearings installed. It's possible that some slight grinding may be required for clearance in the housing (for the larger LSD carrier) but that's about it, otherwise it should be a bolt-in, assuming you have the tools & skill to set backlash, bearing preload, and adjust the axle flange shims.
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W201, W124, W126, . . .
7) Yes, I know what I'm talking about. No, I'm not insane. I built a limited-slip diff for my 1987 300D last year, keeping the stock 2.65 gears. It works GREAT.
Photos of my LSD rebuild & installation are at this link.
Photos of my LSD rebuild & installation are at this link.
You told that you know what you are talking about, and the first picture is from an oil bottle with wrong oil.
I know it is the original oil from mercedes-benz.
But it is still wrong for LSDs.
They are not selling LSD oil any more.
You may buy your oil from Liqui Moly (Full synth hypoid gear oil 75W90LS) , Castrol (SAFXJ) or at BMW.
So the oil you ve bought by MB is the wrong one...
I can read the german text *g*
The spec. is 235.7 but you need 235.61 or another oil vor LSD Diffs.
The rest is looking like my one repairing of my own lsd diff in 2008...
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As final proof... if you try to order the original, old-spec Mercedes LSD fluid (part # 000-583-09-04) from your dealer, they will tell you it has been superceded to the "universal" fluid, 001-989-17-03. Also, the Stu Ritter "124 Owner's bible" clearly states on page 42 that for limited-slip, MB fluid 001-989-17-03 should be used.
Of course, anyone can use any gear oil they like. But after spending ~$1k on a LSD build, I prefer to use the factory MB fluid, and not gamble with aftermarket fluids. I have 25,000 miles on my first LSD build with the OE "universal" fluid (001-989-17-03) and it is working fine, no ill effects. FYI, additional fluid specifications can be found on the Mercedes website at this URL.
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a TVR Cerbera Speed Twelve
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No, they won't have a clue.. you are making a hybrid (LSD-only) diff, that MB never offered from the factory in that size/ratio. For a 210mm with 2.65, 2.82, or 3.06 gears you would buy LSD carrier p/n 126-350-40-23. (This is shown in the spreadsheet I mentioned in my first post - check out the PDF version).
You'll also need new bearings, the diff won't come with bearings installed. It's possible that some slight grinding may be required for clearance in the housing (for the larger LSD carrier) but that's about it, otherwise it should be a bolt-in, assuming you have the tools & skill to set backlash, bearing preload, and adjust the axle flange shims.
You'll also need new bearings, the diff won't come with bearings installed. It's possible that some slight grinding may be required for clearance in the housing (for the larger LSD carrier) but that's about it, otherwise it should be a bolt-in, assuming you have the tools & skill to set backlash, bearing preload, and adjust the axle flange shims.
Thanks for the info. I missed the links in your first post, but I went back. Very informative. The text document describing the procedure is daunting. How did you get yours set up properly without the factory jigs? Did you try multiple times to get the backlash and wear pattern correct? I have a friend that is a MB tech with 20 years experience, I wonder if they have the tools at the dealer to do this?
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Thanks for the info. I missed the links in your first post, but I went back. Very informative. The text document describing the procedure is daunting. How did you get yours set up properly without the factory jigs? Did you try multiple times to get the backlash and wear pattern correct? I have a friend that is a MB tech with 20 years experience, I wonder if they have the tools at the dealer to do this?
Even better, if you are converting an ASD diff to LSD (which is what I did), no adjustment should be required, since you are using the factory-assembled housing, ring, pinion, and carrier. This is what I did for my 185mm LSD (I just had to take it all apart to refresh the clutch pack, and re-assemble with different flanges, none of which affects the backlash or preload.)
My 210mm setup will be more complicated since I am changing the carrier (but retaining the existing housing, ring, and pinion). I will have to measure backlash before taking it all apart, and make sure the backlash is the same when I re-assemble it with the new LSD carrier. I should have more details in a couple of months. I've talked to two different MB techs who have done this and they tell me it's doable with standard rear-end tools.
It's highly unlikely the dealer would have the necessary tools, but you can ask. Motorwerks in Houston or Austin is capable of this job, I had inquired previously about the cost to have them do it, I think it was <$500 if you supply all the parts... but that was a couple years ago, and I could have the price wrong!
#45
AMGDave, A couple of final questions. Since the carrier I need is out of a S350 with ASD and 2.82 gears, does that mean if I just find a differential out of an S350 with ASD, then I will be set? If so, I'll buy a used one and save myself all this trouble.
Also in that text file from your link, the author refers to a shop in Florida with the proper tools for set up. Would you know what shop he is referring to?
Also in that text file from your link, the author refers to a shop in Florida with the proper tools for set up. Would you know what shop he is referring to?
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190 2.3-16
AMG Dave are US model 190 16valves different to the rest of the world? because they were equipped with ASD + LSD fed by the suspension pump, Also why do you say that ABS can't be fitted with ASD diffs, 16 valves had ABS.
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I don't think I said that ABS can't be fitted with ASD diffs, if so, could you tell me what post I said that in? :o You're right, that's not correct. An ABS diff housing cannot be used in an ASR car (and vice-versa), but ABS and ASD/LSD is fine.
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W201, W124, W126, . . .
@Dave: I'am just getting in trouble with the hundrets of specs.
Normaly you need a 85W90 LS oil für diffs with limited slipp.
If it is going older, and you even don't chance EVERYTHING, you better use a 75W140LS.
Mercedes-Benz does not sell LS oil any more, because they are not building any LSDs since a couple of years... They just superseded it of a universal gear oil.
For the durability, there is no difference in what kind of API GL5 you are using. You just need to be shure using a API GL5. But for the right function of the LS, you need a LS Oil and that is what you can't buy at Mercedes-Benz.
@Rusher: Könntest auch Oxenpisse verkaufen und die würden immer noch drauf schwören.
Normaly you need a 85W90 LS oil für diffs with limited slipp.
If it is going older, and you even don't chance EVERYTHING, you better use a 75W140LS.
Mercedes-Benz does not sell LS oil any more, because they are not building any LSDs since a couple of years... They just superseded it of a universal gear oil.
For the durability, there is no difference in what kind of API GL5 you are using. You just need to be shure using a API GL5. But for the right function of the LS, you need a LS Oil and that is what you can't buy at Mercedes-Benz.
@Rusher: Könntest auch Oxenpisse verkaufen und die würden immer noch drauf schwören.
Last edited by TheGerman; 03-06-2009 at 06:26 AM.
#50
I have a US version 1992 400e with ABS but no ASR, and no ASD as far as I know. The carrier you suggested originally came in a S350 with ASD based on your spreadsheet. I think I was confusing ASD with LSD. I thought I would be able to obtain a diff from a S350 with ASD, and then have both the gears I wanted and the LSD carrier.
My best guess at this time is that I need to find an open diff with the gear ratio that I want (2.82) from an S class (a 210mm diff). I then need to buy the carrier you suggested and install it. Am I on the right track now. Thanks again.