AMGDave

Years ago, I did something similar on my white '87, but I used sheet metal to create the baffle for the 4" Quart coax (photo below). It worked ok, but took far too many hours of labor. For the modified Jehnert setup, I used 1/8" MDF/hardboard, and just barely had room for the separate tweeter to fit under the stock grilles. The ultimate setup would be Jehnert door panels & crossovers, with Rainbow drop-in coaxials.

I haven't yet experimented with using the factory front door speakers (90-95) but I will have to figure out something, since those are in my '93. They are an odd size (7 inch?) and impedance (6 ohm, I think?).

RHW

After more reading, I've changed my speaker decision. Being installed today in black Sportline and coming soon to white Sportline and Cabriolet:

---2 way JL Audio ZR650CSI = $1000 with a custom/matching door-pod located in lower door corners. (Includes converting existing 6" speaker holes into storage bins, but still too much $)

My earlier work in these 3 cars, summarized from this entire thread:

---Alpine IDAX001 Head Unit = $650 installed with Bluetooth, XM, USB and Ipod connectivity

---Alpine PDX5.5 Alpine Amplifier = $500 installed 150x2 and 300x1 (2nd and 3rd amps were $400 installed)

---JL Audio CVS110G-W6V2 ProWedge subwoofers = $400 each in Sportlines
(4 W3s in a tight-fit ported box in the Cabriolet $750)

---no dash speakers for the moment & rear fill will be stock speakers powered by the head unit. (YNVDIZW124 - thanks for reminding me of this rear fill idea!)

So 3 cars, about $2600 each, with all work done by a valid Alpine / JL Audio dealer.

Again, thanks all for tolerating this retread topic, it has helped my CURRENT outcome immensely, even if it will bore me to tears in a few weeks.

AMGDave

With the JL Audio ZR650CSI separates, how will those work in the doors? I assume they'll consume most of the door storage pockets, and you'll remove the stock door midbass drivers to create a "pocket" of fiberglass inside? Neat idea, lot of work though (I'm guessing a good chunk of the $1k is labor). But I'd think that you would want a 4-inch midrange in the dash to go along with the door midbass? And where will the tweet go? That's one reason I liked the Jehnert, it was a 3-way system. Which reminds me, have you seen the Jehnert offering for the 124 coupe/cabrio? It puts FOUR midbass drivers in the door! (See photo below.)

Oh yeah - stock rear speakers are fine for rear fill. Rainbows are a nice upgrade back there after your wallet stops smoking. Remember to put a 6dB/octave low pass filter on the rears starting at something like 5-7kHz for rear fill (aka "Rear Channel De-emphasis"). This should help imaging slightly.

Jehnert Coupe/Cabrio pics:

RHW

After reading your 2004 conversation on Jehnert, I scanned and found the unit described. Emailed them and to date, no reply.

The one you posted has 2 4" speakers, 2 6" speakers and 1 tweeter. It is a great solution. And if I were not doing a few cars at once, I can EASILY see going that route.

Another choice is this one with 1 4" speaker and 1 6" speaker and 1 tweeter"


The ZR1 speaker quality is quite a reach. The description of using W7 and W6v2 technology turned me on

JL suggests putting the 6 and tweeter 3 inches apart, down near our lower corners of the doors. That is right in their literature, mount the tweet and woofer down low and focus on aimin them well, as well as timing.

They are $500 (ebay) speakers, and I am trying to allow the installation shop the room they need to do these RIGHT.

I will give up door storage.

IF I WERE ONLY DONING ONE CAR, I THINK JEHNERT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE ANSWER, but this is the second time I've done 3 cars at once. It alters some thresholds of acceptance.

Dave, The tweeter will be down low with the pod/pouch/speaker container. Any concern if I found a way to go 3 way, that the 4" speaker being evor 2' away from the 6" speaker and tweeters could negatively affect things?

I am told I will be done when I hear JLs new flagship speaker.

neanderthal

thats not a moderate budget by anyones measure anymore.

this is moderate.
2 pairs 4.25 or 5.25 speakers at best buy/ circuit city et al. ~$200 best buy

1 pair matching component speakers at same location ~ $200. best buy

2 4 channel bridgeable amplifiers. ~$400 best buy circuit city crutchfield

1 8 inch subwoofer.

some wiring of course

dynamat or other sound suppression

method.
take advantage of free installation of items over $100 at big box electronics stores. so time your purchases.
you may need to purchase an install kit for about $70

install component speakers in door location. mount tweeters in bottom corner of A pillar.
install one set of speakers on dashboard
install one set of speakers in hatshelf.
mount one amp under each rear headrest rest.
cut hole in first aid kid and install subwoofer
connect one amp to your front and rear speakers
connect one amp to your door speakers and bridge the other channel to the sub

voila
youve spent less than $1000.

method i was going to follow but someone kept breaking into my car and stealing my stereo.
now i just have a cheap headunit.

ps. i was going to provide links to examples of each from circuit city, best buy and crutchfield. but too much effort.

RHW

Well, given I have less in these three car stereos than my previous 3 major upgrades, it is moderate to me. But that is why I shared brands, prices, and the installation factor. I know most posters are handy and saving these labor costs.

Dave, Pete or Reid or anyone,

Would you shoot an opinion here? 85% of my path is decided. <I think>

Amp, head unit, 2way ZR650s and Subs:
As for the ZZZZZRs, JL Audio specifies the lower location for woofer and tweeter, and they want the two woofer+tweeter together.

AS I SEE IT
This $2600 stereo is less than 50% the cost of my coupe, and I'll hope for 80-85% of the sound quality.

Neanderthal: Your proposal is a valid moderate budget, and well thought out.

Dave:
Jehnert did follow up today with a form letter, so they are interested in the sale.

AMGDave

Weird, maybe they don't want to deal direct with the USA anymore? I had to buy direct from Germany, but they got an authorized dealer in Oregon after I bought my setup. The standard W124 sedan package is two 6.5" in the doors, plus a 4" in the dash with a 1" tweet. A photo of my door panel is below. The coupe/cabrio gets almost the same setup but with double the door speakers. With the weak US dollar, the cost of the Jehnert would probably be prohibitive (~$1500, I think, based on an estimated cost of ~$900 EUR with S&H?).


I am always concerned when the tweeter is mounted low, because the passenger's legs will interfere with the path of the sound from the opposite side. I was considering mounting the tweet in the triangle trim behind the door mirror (assuming you have electric driver's mirrors). The main problem with adding a 4" mid to a 2-piece set is that the JL crossover would have to be tossed, and you'd need to figure out how to cross over the three drivers (what frequency, slope, etc). An easier solution would be to use a Rainbow in the dash with JL midbass in the door. Or see if JL offers a 3-way component set. (?) Any way you slice it, getting the front speakers designed & installed properly will take quite a bit of time & effort.

On a side note - how do you plan to do equalization, to RTA the system? At first I had nothing, but later added a DQT (for the front channels only).

RHW

Dave, the door panels you have are the ones I posted (wrongly mentioning a 6 and a 4, those are two 6s)

RTA, I believe that is the final adjustments they make with JL's wand? I do not have a component in place to do that.

You've gone right where I'd love to be, Nak on down, but with three cabins to feed, I am apt to satisfy easier.

Could a 4" dash mounted Rainbow be powered off a head unit channel, with frequencies above and below the range I am trying to emphasize cut out?

Or should I maybe place the tweet there, so far from the 6" woofer?

Should see and hear some results today. I will be happy with 80% of the sound quality of my coupe at this budget.

Gonna keep talking to Jehnert, but I think the $ exchange rate makes them prohibitive.

Bigpete123

Those Jenart units are great. They look much more stock than my fiberglass pods, that's for sure.

Here's my $.02 on the tweeter location question. What I have noticed in my system (with 6's in the door pods, 4's and tweets in dash) is that the highs are very accurate and clean, but they can be irritating to the ears with certain music (most rock music for example). More mellow music (accoustic guitar and vocals for example) sound fantastic.

I believe this is because the proportion of midbass to highs that my ear picks up is out of whack because the tweet/mid is closer to the ears than the midbass driver in the door. Music with more mid bass tends to be more irritating.

From what I've read, it's best to keep all of the drivers as close together as possible, and I can say from experience that it's true. I still love my system and I think it's far superior to no midbass drivers at all... but if I could do it over again, I would try to design my setup so that everything would go in the doors.

The problem of course becomes that you can't as easily aim your tweeters and they are easily blocked by peoples' legs/etc (as AMG Dave said). But I had a system in my Jeep wrangler a number of years ago with custom kick panel pods and MB Quart 2-ways, and I think they sounded better.

I'm not inclined to go through another re-installation though!!

RHW

Pete ftw, thanks for saying in with comments. Part of my interest here is that I know I will dress up at least a few more audio systems in 124s, I am a great deal on a cab away from owning a spare.

When it came down to it, I decided to trust Alpine and JL Audio on as many details as possible. They show a picture of these ZRs with the tweeter in a door pod alongside of the 6" speaker, with the caption "right" There's another picture with the tweeter up higher in the door like in my wagon, same pod for the 6" speaker. Caption: "wrong" I am installing these just per JL Audio's advice.

Just like I chose a sealed sub box designed and built by JL.

Dave- Pete's point about the brightness of the tweeters / 4s in the dash, I recall a several year old post of yours where you describe the same thing. Did you dial that down/out by slowing the front tweeter/reducing power there?

JL rep said trust him, mount it low and the sound stage can be created by where we point the tweets and the 5 tweeter adjustments.

with the shop today,
We talked today about how great the dash speaker holes would be with stealth, flip up covers for little storage bins.

Andy_M

I replaced the dash and rear speakers with Polk Audio db401's and db521's, the head unit with an Alpine CDE-9874 (with full iPod capability) and mounted a Profile AP1040 to the gas tank cover panel (after reinforcing it of course) to run it all through. Price: less than $650 total

I have a totally stock appearance; plenty of power; clear, tight, accurate sound quality; and iPod capability with an excellent and functional interface - which I use constently.

Planned for phase 2: Adding a Polk Audio MM1040D 10" sub, mounted below the "first aid kit" cover, and powered by a Profile AP700M mono subwoofer amp. Price: < $300 total

RHW

So when common sense came a knocking, you actually opened the door?

I've really liked Polk Audio car speakers, I bet you will love that system -way more- once you finish the last upgrade. 4s and 5s are 4s and 5s, I'd consider a pair of 8s to reduce the bridge, but read this thread for plenty of reasons not to listen to me.

AMGDave

It is better to keep all drivers near each other (point source design). But it's not always possible, or practical, to achieve this in a car. The midbass location is of less importance since the lower frequencies are less directional - that's why the sub can go in the trunk, instead of the front seat. Getting the midrange & tweeter mounted and aimed properly is the tough part, since this will affect imaging the most. I'm very curious how it turns out with your low-mounted door setup. Maybe you can give us your review of what you think of this setup, compared to a more stock setup with coaxial in dash plus door midbass. I've been tempted to try to get a center channel too, but that would be really tough to make anything in the middle of the dash look good.

I originally had Quart titanium coaxials in the dash in my test mule (white '87), which were a little to bright/harsh. The Jehnert setup has a Quart midrange with a soft-dome tweeter, which helped, and I think there is a level adjustment on the x-over (need to double check on that). I suspect the brightness is partly because the dash tweeter bounces off the windshield. I think I'd prefer a side-firing door location for the tweeters. But I'm just not convinced about a low position. I'd kind of like a 3-way door setup with 6.5" at the bottom, 4" mid above that, and tweeter above the mid (stacked vertically). But that would be a major custom fab job.

I've got a simple system in my old VW Dasher, with old Polk MM series speakers (early 90's) powered by a Punch DSM 60, going through a Polk Mobile SDA box... and then a Punch DSM 100 powering a pair of ported SS Exact 12's (tuned to 30Hz) in the hatch. It sounds amazingly good for 16 year old equipment. I bought most of the stuff new back in 91-93 and abused it heavily for the next 10 years, lol... which may explain my deafness...

RHW

Dave, The Jehnert door panels arrived today, thanks for that tip. Cost was under $800 + shipping (I know, not so moderate anymore)

Only took about 14 days from the day I wired Jehnert money. I have a few irons in the fire, so it may take a few weeks to get these in.

These panels in grey:

[img]https://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk41/RHWinNJ/car%20stereo%20all/doorjehnert.jpg[img]

http://www.jehnert.de/typo3/index.ph...f56835f7bd59ea

With this place doing the installation:
http://www.njcarstereo.com

They installed the ZRs in the doors of 1 sportline, but I did not love the look, or protrusion into my leg space. I'll get pics of that installation up.

Dave, the tweets are down low, aimed up and image pretty well up at the center of dash, and that car's owner is happy (my work partner). I am okay with it, but it is not a design I will repeat.

Bigpete123

Honestly, I am far from rich... but after having gone through the tedious and painful process of building and upholstering my own door pods, I think $1k for the Jenart units is reasonable.

I'm sure the exchange rate hurt you a bit there as well.

For my first attempt at fiberglass, I think they came out great. But they take up a bit of leg room and the upholstery didn't turn out perfect.

My only concern with the Jenart unit is how the speakers are located right next to the seat bottom. I wonder how they will sound since they will be firing right into the seat.

RHW

Pete, they include 4s + tweets and a mounting plate for the dash speakers.

I expect good things, but frankly, it seems there will always be sacrifices

I lack the creative skills some here have, so I have found well-beaten paths provide my best outcomes.

AMGDave

The pair of 6.5 drivers in the Jehnert door panel handle the lower octaves in a 3-way system, so the location isn't critical. The mids & tweets are what affect imaging the most. The only problem I've had is with things rattling & buzzing in the doors, after a couple of years of use... it's a LOT of work to remove the door panel after the Jehnerts are installed, especially if you use any kind of non-permanent sealant to try and make the panel somewhat airtight after installing.

Before you install the panels, use blue Loc-Tite on the little nuts attaching the door panel wood trim, apply Dynamat as desired on the door, and use the thick self-adhesive "felt" stuff from Jehnert to help damp rattles (see photo below). I wish I could find the "felt" insulation that Jehnert sells, I haven't been able to locate anything like it in the USA:

Digileksik

Hello i have 88year w124 sedan and it hasn't speakers in the front doors so i wanted to ask maybe there is a dashboard like that to buy http://www.jehnert.de/imageStorage/Artikel/58/71172.png or something similar.??

STLe320

I don't think they make any dashboards like that for speaker mounting..

RHW

These are the pods I had made for the black Sportline, from a few angles.

It looks okay, sounds great but the pod sticks a bit far into the cabin. Don, my work partner, has no space issues but I won't replicate this set up because it bothers me when I drive his car.















Speakers are JL Audio ZR 650 CSi

I chose the chrome rims and surprised him with them...he loves them. Both the original black paint and the chrome wheels are mirrorlike. I generally / never choose chrome wheels otherwise.







Thats the trunk of his car and those are good clouds in the sky not bad clouds in the paint.

And my chimney in the lower left corner.

STLe320

Looks nice man!

RHW

A few new notes...
DAVE, I wonder if your Door panels rattle could be helped by a low pass filter cutting off around 60hz/65/70/75, and then adding the TBD Sub(s)???

The Jehnert door panels are now mounted in the white Sportline, I won't bother with pics, because the pics are already above - these are long replicated and identical to those pics.

Sound is very full, it reminds me of hanging out during jam sessions with friends in high school, you are RIGHT in the thick of the music.

This car can't wear the moderate badge anymore, and the Jehnert panels expose the fact that I used the PDX5.5 amp, and that is now probably my weak link, even at 150x2watts. But my car budget is LOL used up for the years 2008 -2015, so the amp stays.

I would HIGHLY recommend these Jehnert panels. They have a simple template, it looks and sounds like MB oem quality. My REAL costs, with shipping and paying for a great, clean install was $1600 for these panels and dash speakers.

This door/dash set up tri amped like AMG Dave, BigPete123 and my first car would be fantastic, but I am not going there anytime soon.

Jeez, that new white Cab has a stock stereo. Hope it can wait til 2016.

AMGDave

RHW, yeah, I'm already crossing over the Jehnert door panels with a 12dB/octave high-pass around 60-80Hz. So they're not getting any serious bottom end. Glad you like the sound of 'em! The rattles & buzz take time to develop, could be a year or two. Might just be the nature of the beast, where we have to take off the door panel & tighten things up every few years.

I'm still trying to get the sound stage better, it pulls me to the left front too much. If I move the L/R balance to the right side, that helps, but if I have a passenger they have the opposite problem. Shame there's no easy way to install a center channel!

Real1shepherd

So getting back to a “budget system” as in the spirit of the initial post.....some of you should send pics of some of your systems to “Pimp my ride”.

Originally, I was going to put back in the original Becker radio and go with the factory set-up. However, the ******** who put in the Clarion radio and companion CD changer, pretty much dashed my hopes in that scenario. I'm told the factory MB speakers run about 2ohms, so that causes ruthless installers to jury rig (if using original speakers) to try and match impedance. What a nightmare when we looked into things....plus the MB amp had disappeared (the Becker is just a radio/cassette player preamp with no amp). So.... since the ohm rating on the MB speakers is basically unusual with most other modern amps (and they're old paper units), I decided to replace everything. Too bad, because I still have a Nak home pro deck that records in Dolby C and the Becker plays back in Dolby C & B.

I came onto some pretty good deals; Kenwood KDC-X791 CD-Receiver, Rockford Fosgate T1523 mid-tweet 5 1/4” set with crossovers, Alpine SPS-400 4” coaxials. The mids go in the front doors, the tweeters in the dash with a steel strap and the coaxials in the back doors. Clarion CD changer goes bye-bye and a defunct medium these days anyway-almost as bad as cassettes. No visual changes in the car, just sound changes.

Kevin

tskolak

I have a 93 300ce Cab. Does anyone know what size the in-dash speakers are? I'm assuming they're metric.
thanks