nsolot

Took delivery of my W210 E320 in August '98. DOM is July '98, but dealer told me it was one of the first of the '99 model year to arrive. Car runs great. Just did an oil service (guy comes to my house) and he told me there's a little metal dust in the oil this time. Same thing last time he did oil service, and he showed me the oil so I could see it. After that he suggested a 3 part oil service. He filled with conventional oil, and I drove for a week. Then another conventional oil change, and I drove for a week. Then he replaced with synthetic oil as usual. Currently 112,000+ miles, and the car runs just fine. Has anyone seen similar and identified source of the metal in the oil? Is this "normal" for a 14 year old W210? Or sign of major trouble to come? Just trying to figure out if it's worth putting more $ into this car, or save $ for a new car, and drive this one until it drops dead... TIA P.S. The car never drops oil in between oil changes. Level is always good. The most solid motor of any car I've ever owned.

RichardM98

ROFLOL !

How could you 'see' dust in oil?? (unless it had just been sprinkled on top) You can feel the oil by rubbing some between your fingers and you might feel some grit. If there were some boulder sized particles they might be visible in a film of oil but those would have been removed by the oil filter.

And how in the world would two changes of conventional oil repair any damage?

nsolot

He showed me some of the oil in a plastic pan. It was very slight. Nobody ever claimed the convention oil changes was going to repair anything. This is a big flush procedure he recommended, and since the cost was minimal I agreed to try it.

ohlord

mobil1 0w40 synthetic.
If you want to flush your engine before the next oil change add a quart of kerosene let the engine idle for 15 minutes and change oil as normal.
Your mechanic is using a pan to drain oil and that is not proper procedure.
Get an oil evacuation unit and suck it out the dipstick tube.
You can always send a sample of oil to blackstone labs and have it evaluated.
However in this case I think you need to can the mechanic for wasting 18qts of oil trying to flush an engine.

nsolot

Thanks for the tips about oil flushing. I'm not ready to fire this guy since he has been working on my cars for several years, and they run great. He does the oil change in my driveway, not on a shop lift, and I never actually watched, but when he's done, the old oil is in gallon water jugs which he takes to recycling. I'm guessing he drains it out into one large pan, and then transfers to the gallon jugs. What he showed me was what was left in the bottom of the large pan.

Feels like this thread got off topic. Back to the jist of my Q which is whether some metal particles in the oil is:

A) normal for 13-14 YO E320
B) a simple fix
C) my E320 is on death row
D) other?

That is the info I'm really interested in learning about. BTW, I'm in Los Angeles, so my 112,000 miles is mostly city. Thanks everyone.

RichardM98

No, metal in the oil is NOT normal. If in fact what you saw was metal. As suggested, you can send in a sample of the oil for analysis.

If well cared for a W210 can get 250,000mi without engine or transmission overhaul. Well cared for means using factory approved oil and filters at proper service cycles. If I were you and I wanted my car to last I would find a qualified MB mechanic and have the proper Schedule A and Schedule B service performed (it's a lot more than an oil change).

nsolot

I'm inclined to try sending Blackstone a sample. $25, maybe I learn something that might save me some big $ down the road, or just get a few thousand extra miles on this one....

Question - Since I just did an oil service, shouldn't I wait a while so some junk can get into the sample, and how many miles do you guys suggest? I'm in the habit of changing the oil about 6,000 mile intervals. Wait to 3,000 or the full 6,000 to pull oil sample to send them?

FWIW, my guy was up at the house today working on another car of mine. He used to work at both local MB & BMW dealers and is dealer trained. He was pretty adament about not doing the kerosine flush. Says he was in a shop one day when another mechanic was doing that, and the main seal started leaking. He says kerosine is a solvent, and manufacturer did not design the car to run with kerosine & oil. Was designed to run with oil. He calls using cheap conventional oil several times "douching" the engine oil. And for the record, he does a lot more than just oil service. I'd like to get 2-3 years more out of the car without sinking a lot of $ into it. My gut is that my 112,000 LA miles is more like 200,000+ normal miles as probably only 5% of the mileage on the car is highway cruising.

ohlord

What has been used as a commercial flush for decades it won't hurt a seal that is not hurt already. 15 minutes at idle,not driving,not revving it up.
I have several Mercedes,a few street and race MGB's have always flushed prior to oil changes and never lost a seal in any of them.
Dumping fresh oil to flush it out is a waste of time and money and oil.
It is exactly the solvent nature of the flush kerosene that cleans the internals.
You drain it all out and any bit remaining evaporates and affects the engine nor the oil not one iota.
A bit of bearing wear can be seen in most oil changes. Unless abused I have yet to see a bottom end on an M112 or M113 fail.
If he suspected anything was wrong with a bearing,flushing it with 18 quarts of conventional oil was not going to cure the issue,just cost you money and wasted oil. Lots of it

Figuero

You need an oil analysis. Otherwise you are just guessing. Even if you could prove it was metal, how would you know what is wearing unless you know the type of metal? Alumimum, tin, steel, lead, tin, copper, who and who knows what else?

If you are already into the flush/douche - simply start with fresh oil and send in a sample after 3,000miles. Then again at 6,000miles. One test does not tell a story, two at least gives you some data points to compare.

A little metal in the oil is a fact of normal wear, however at 100,000miles you should be seeing less wear, not more.

RichardM98

The OP is talking about visible metal not PPM.

RobertG

Did he use this drain pan for anything else like rear end service?

nsolot

Thanks. That is very helpful. I ordered the oil sample collection kits from Blackstone.

Yes, visible, but not big particles like sand. What he showed me is really small particles. He had to hold it to an angle in the sun, and I could see it shimmer/sparkle.

I really can't say with certainty what else he uses the pan for, and I'd rather not post based on a guess.

RobertG

I was not being funny about the rear end service, I meant, did he use this pan for changing fluids like the differential or transmission that usually has metal shavings.
Using a drain pan for things other then changing engine oil will always have residual metal particals that will shimmer in the light.
I second the idea to have your oil tested by the lab, that way it will rule out what it could be and point to what it is.

nsolot

I wasn't trying to be funny either! He also did a trannie fluid service this service, but I'm not sure if he did the oil or ATF fluid first. I was out with wife & kids at the time. This is the 2nd ATF flush, the first was at 90,000 miles, but that's another story, probably best suited for another thread.

Back to the engine, we also live in an area with very steep hills. I doubt this makes a huge difference, but probably adds another 5-10% of wear & tear over the odometer reading. My wife's ride is a BMW X5 and that one was going back to the dealer for brake service every few months during the maintenance plan.

RobertG

That might explain the metal glitter in the pan, just a little is enough to make one take a closer look.
If the drain pan was used for other service related things and if your engine is running quiet like it should, then you might be looking at cross contamination of drain fliuds.

nsolot

Can't rule it out. Now you got me thinking maybe I should test the oil when I get the kit, to get a baseline, then at 3,000 and 6,000. I guess if the oil at 3,000 is showing bad stuff, I might end up switching to a 3,000 change interval?

I'm probably only logging 6-8K per year. This used to be our primary car, until we got the first kid, which led to the X5.

David_Vash

Apologies for bumping up a new thread, but was there any resolution to this issue? I am curious because I have never heard of the M113 Engine dealing with metal shavings in the oil until now. Was an oil analysis done and if so what were the results? I was and still am in belief that these are very mechanically strong engines. Thanks