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Does anyone know the replacement interval for the timing chain on the 3.2/4.3 M112/M113 motors?
The tensioner, guides and chains on the old M116/M117 V8s, which also had the double-row chain, needed replacement every 100K miles or so. Does this carry over to the newer V engines?
The 112/113 Engines have a spec for a stretched chain...No replacement data.
(IF) the 112/113 engines are like the 103/104s They will last a long long time..as I Have never replace a chain in a 103/104
The old style engines ..V8s had a single row chain..that was updated to a Double row chain...
Its not the chain that goes bad...either the chain tensioner or a broken chain rail
When they go it jumps time and bends valves
I have a '98 E320 (112,000 miles) and a '99 E320 Wagon (150,000 miles). Both get synthetic oil, changed at 3000-5000 miles (since I've owned them anyway). I know the timing chains are known for long wear, but I'd really like to check stretch on them from time to time, but I don't know what the process is to do this check. I know this has probably been covered 100s of times so I apologize for the repetition, but I haven't had any luck finding the actual "how to" instructions in any searches.
I am having a similar rattle but after the oil change it got quieter.
It slowly starts to re-appear.
Increasing the rpm slightly with 1-200rpm and the noise disappears completely.
Not able to hear it even with a stethoscope.
I am having 183kkm, but i cannot be 100% sure on them.
Your sounds way louder than mine did but could be the cam mic picking the noise diffirently. Go figure... Your sound is more repeated and mine was more like random rattling. But then all the symptons you told indicate chain or lifters.
Remove the multigroove drivebelt and run the engine for a few sec and listen if the sound is gone.
Did that. It is definitely from inside the engine.
The video is not mine, but the rattling has exactly the same sound signature. It is a bit louder that the rest of the engine.
Will start with the tensioner first.
Funny thing is that it it completely disappears when idle rpm is increased even with an extra 100-200rpm.
Do you know if the tensioner is a ratcheting type, the one that needs to be reset?
Or it is just a hydraulic helped by a spring to keep pressure during startup when oil pressure is low?
The new 5w40 oil helped a bit, as the sound was gone on the outside, it can only be heard with the stethoscope, or when engine is at high temperature.
On the old 5w30 oil the sound was always there.
Not sure if the new oil damps the chain slap, or it creates higher pressure and the tensioner keeps the chain more tightly on the guides.
I am hearing the noise on the lifting eye of the engine, and in the middle, near the oil filter case and above the crank pulley.
the zone near the oil pump chain is quiet.
What is your experience on this matter?
lifters can only be heard using a stethoscope they are quiet from outside, i could identify one or 2 with the 5w30 oil, but with the 5w40 they are quiet.
So i will leave them be.
(Skip to 2:02 - i tried putting the direct link here but it does not work)
Does it look like an appropriate method to you?
Did you use a chain press device to lock the chain in a loop?
Or did you use a simple mountable lock similar to the ones used in bicycle chains?
I found out that Febi/Swag are Iwis partners/re-packagers so i would probably could go with them instead of an over expensive OE.
What brand did you use?
The video looks valid. V8 engines has plain simple idler sprocket but V6 has blancing shaft behind the sprocket that sprocket drives. It is imporant that shaft is synced with cams and crank while pulling new chain thru.
Don't undo the plugs. Engine is harder to turn but compression actualy helps fightning back the valve sprig load that can easily jam the chain in "V-valley" where blancing shaft sprocket is located.
Yes for chain press. Locking type chain lock doesn't work. There is no room in plastic chain quides and tensiones pad to accept wider lock peace.
I ordered my chain and tensioner from MB so OEM parts.
Ok then, i guess by pulling the new chain through there is no way that the balancer/cams/crank can go out of sync as long i will use covers to prevent the chain jumping off the sprockets, right?
The chain can't be that stretched so i won't get one link extra between any of the cams/balancer/rank.
From your pictures i barely see a link stretch on the whole length of the chain which should not cause any sync problems when feeding the new chain, right?
(No way of checking the sync as it would imply taking of the covers, which i would like to avoid.)
Can you also answer on how you connected back the chain? With master riveting link and a press tool or you just used a snap-on locking link?
Will probably do this in autumn and revert with pictures and details.
Sorry for bothering you with questions but i cannot aford to screw up on this one.
Heres the picture of the chain tool I borrowed from a friend who works at motorcycle service shop.
The syncing issue I was refering just popped to mind couse I don't know is there room enougth chain to jump if jammed. Cylinder head valve spring load slap chain quite fastly into "V-valley" if you remove spark plugs. Just keep the plugs and keep the chain tight and move easily then you will be fine. If you have friend who could help feeding new chain and pulling the old one out while you are turning the engine whole job is much easyer.
Remember to remove the chain tensioner at begening. Hardest parts of the whole job is disconecting and re re-conecting points.
Why should i remove the tensioner?
Won't the chain jump without it while turning the engine by hand?
I was thinking if the chain will be caught in the sprocket in both ends (feeding end, and comming out end).
That's what those covers in the video are for, so the chain will not jump teeth and be kept on the sprocket on both ends.
I could additionally secure them with strong ties and move the chain one-two links at a time.
This way the tensioner would help keeping the chain in place and ensure it will not jump.
Does it sound like a good plan to you?
Is there any kind of ratcheting mechanism in the tensioner for M112/M113?
Tensioner attached you are not able to pull the end of the chain over correct tooth to connect ends together.
This is why you are cutting the chain and feeding it into engine at the same side where tensioner is. No need for tension.
M112 / 113 tensioner is pre-loaded with spring and oil pressure will do the rest. There is nothing you could set or turn.
Here.... I tryed without removeing the tensioner at first. But then zipties broke and I gave up. After removeing alternator and tensioner job became much easyer. I could let chain freely hang out from cylinder head. Weight of the chain kept it tight at crank sprocket.
Hmmm. I will definitely have to think about it.
I think the sprocket is the one keeping the new and old chain from spreading, as seen in the film that i posted.
Chain is holding from the teeth, the only thing required is holding it in place using strong slides.
If the chain does not jump, it should meet in the end or be at least near by.
Then I could loosen the temsioner a few turns to make the job easier an pull it so it will meet the other end.
I;m afraid that without the tensioner the chain will fall loose and unload itself from the crank.
I could take out the pulley, and put some chain bracket there to prevent it from falling, but it is kind of too much of a hustle.
Barely changed the pulley, seal and bolt a year ago, don;t want to do that job again.
I will probably sleep this one over and make things right.
Thanks again for your advice!
There is no room chain to jump in crank sprocket as long as chain will be runing on its own weight. When I was doing my friends 430 I even accidentaly droped end of the chain into oil pan. Then I just opened the lower pan and picked the chain and fed it again into right side cylinder head. Plastic chain quides do the job quite well and there no way you could mess the timing if you just keep feeding and pulling the chain.
Only place you could **ck up is the right side cam sprocket. If you loose the feeding side end into engine, then game over. You cannot reverse.
I have replaced the tensioner, just to start with something, and because it is easy.
No effect. Old tensioner was as good as the new one. So 100E wasted.
So it is clear that if the noise is on the tight side of the chain, don't bother with the tensioner as the tensioner handles the untight side of the chain.
Note for the ones with the same problem. https://youtu.be/TbuVNbdOgEU
Next would pe pulling a new chain, but probably in spring.
Politicians threathen us with new taxation policy and a new chain might not be required after all.
As a side note, if you do this operation you should also remove the regulator from the alternator and inspect the brushes and the rotor's collector.
It takes an extra 10 minutes but at least you know more about your old car.
@MouTine: is this the sound your engine was making?
And another question: how do you link the old chain with the new one? I guess you are using the master link only at the end, you don't rivet it multiple times. Right?
But then what do you use for securely attaching the chain with the old one?
Last edited by cj_sharky; 10-31-2017 at 01:48 PM.
Reason: added video
Balancing shaft sprocket can be seen if you look into the chain's direction, but i could not get a good picture of it.. It was fine. Same goes for the other sprockets and the guides.
I will have to replace it soon.
193kkm on the clock, not sure how much in reality. Tensioner is brand new, and fully extended.
Quick update, i did the job about 2 months ago, and voila, no more rattle.
The chain was stretched by one link. The stretch was visible on the left side, you can really see how loose is the chain.
Synchronization of the balance shaft can be checked through the left valve cover, when the crank is at 40 degrees every sencod turn, the cams should be with the sign in the plane of the valve covers and through the left valve cover you should see the alignment dent of the balance shaft.
no significant wear on the guides, new chain is quite tight even with the tensioner lose!
One thing i did wrong was not keeping the chain tight enough and loos from the sprocket from the output end.
I was pulling out the end of the chain from the sprocket, and needless to say it jumped teeth as the new chain that was being pulled in was shorter.
So in the end i split the chain again, re aligned the sprocket which was out of sync and redone the chain.
so if you are doing this op, just let the end loose from the sprocket but firmly pull it so it won't jump any teeth.
Keep in mind that the valve springs do have quite a high force.
Besides rattle i have more low end torque 1500-2000 range and the engine is more quiet in the high range.
No noticeable power improvement in the high range, but at least the timing is better. Before it was 7 crank degrees of for the right cam (the one with the cam sensor)
FC seems to be the same but at the same time i switched from 225 55 16 to 245 40 18 michelin pilot sport, so FC might be better with the previous economy tires.
Tensioner attached you are not able to pull the end of the chain over correct tooth to connect ends together.
This is why you are cutting the chain and feeding it into engine at the same side where tensioner is. No need for tension.
M112 / 113 tensioner is pre-loaded with spring and oil pressure will do the rest. There is nothing you could set or turn.
Attachment 359937
Here.... I tryed without removeing the tensioner at first. But then zipties broke and I gave up. After removeing alternator and tensioner job became much easyer. I could let chain freely hang out from cylinder head. Weight of the chain kept it tight at crank sprocket.
Did you fabricate that plate with the roller on it that’s keeping the timing chain pressed against the cam sprocket? If not, where’d you get it? Thanks!
Just cut from a steel sheet, use the valve cover holes to attach it and it will work just fine.
The roller is the deluxe version.
IMO you should care more about the loose end, not to drop it inside or to skip teeth, don't worry about the going in end, as long as the steel sheet is thick enough. I think 0.75mm would be enough.
AS for my engine, still runs well after this, fuel consumption is the same.
I finally got around to getting this done over the weekend. I could hear a bit of a chain rattle, and a moderate one on the occasional start up. Thought it might be the oil pump chain, but when I checked it I could lift it up a bit on top of the sprockets so figured it was worth a shot.
I did as you guys suggested and fed it through, fabbed up a couple blocks out of a 1x4 that I bolted on to the head so it was tight against the chain/cam. Quick and easy. Took out the tensioner, used a cheap Chinese double row chain tool off Amazon that worked alright, had to remove the cam bridge to connect chains. Bought an iwis chain and a spare link since one gets used connecting the old to the new. Factory chain was iwis as well.
With new chain zero rattle, smoother idle and the engine is muuuch quieter.
thank you guys for giving me the confidence to take this on! Wasn’t too too hard, just stressful when the chain kept trying to jump when fighting the valve springs.
Originally Posted by cj_sharky
Just cut from a steel sheet, use the valve cover holes to attach it and it will work just fine.
The roller is the deluxe version.
IMO you should care more about the loose end, not to drop it inside or to skip teeth, don't worry about the going in end, as long as the steel sheet is thick enough. I think 0.75mm would be enough.
AS for my engine, still runs well after this, fuel consumption is the same.
01-21-2006, 09:03 AM
