talk me out of buying a 210....

[barndoor]

probably not the best place to come for that kind of advice right? Anyway, I'm new here and have been lusting over getting a merc wagon for my wife, and me of course. We've got two little ones and her 2000 honda CRV just isn't cutting it space wise when we bring friends along. We've determined that we could get a 210 in good shape for near the selling price of the honda and maybe a bit of cash, so that doesn't bother me. Nor does buying a "bad" 210 since I plan on giving it a thorough go through, carfax, PPI, etc, so I presumably wont have the tranny or engine seize up. What is of concern is maintenance. I own and drive old cars, nothing new. The honda is relatively cheap to fix and with 150k miles can probably go for another 100k if maintained. What I don't want to have happen is to buy the benz, sell the honda, then find out that I got in way over my head. What are some realistic general maintenance costs? $1000 per year? $1500 per year? Obviously I really want to buy one, but I'm trying to do the smart thing. I'm looking for some reality checking here and know you guys like your 210s, but I find that people who really are fans of their cars tend to be quite realistic about their ups and downs.

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[CKonstantin]

Been there done that, look at the Wikki page, and also the common problems list on this section, for me the biggest upset so far was the spring perches, I had to replace one as it tore clean off, and I'm doing the other side as a precaution this summer most likely. Now the thing with those is mine were replaced already by one of the previous owners, probably by the dealer too, and they still let go, and the only way to find out is by removing the paint and sealer off of them and looking for rust, and I doubt that you'll be able to do that prior to buying the car... As for the rest, you'd have to be more specific on the particular model/engine you're looking at to get a better answer.

But overall for me so far main issues were: the rust, and a lot of neglect on the high millage maintenance(fuel lines(diesel), suspension, engine mounts, thermostat, coolant, etc....) So look carefully and read through the problem list, it's all in there.

[barndoor]

I'm no stranger to rust. Just look at the vehicles I drive to the left! By now I should be able to smell rust from 10 feet having cut so much of it out of VWs. The current car in question is a 2001 e320 wagon, 145k miles, clean carfax report an no major problems ever needing taken care of. Current problems are cosmetic interior, with the exception of the rear passenger window regulator problem (confident I can fix that) and the outside air temp gauge readout not working. Carfax only reported replacement of "drive belts" at 110K miles, and various electrical, cooling and door window checks. I of course really want the car, and have wanted several others I've seen, but it's come time to fish or cut bait and I need to be able to act and buy if the right car comes along. It is really a question of the overall maintenance costs of owning a mercedes. For example, lets say you buy a w210 and have no major issues, just routine maintenance, maybe an occasional part here or there. Is that going to cost twice as much as the cost of owning a honda/toyota/etc?

[ohlord]

and how much is the Wagon asking for itself?
A real good example might run you $100 a year in total maint. if you do it yourself.
Don't trust carfax.
Do a complete inspection.

[barndoor]

I'm in the CA bay area and the car would likely only be from this local. Most that I've looked at and considered are in the $5k to $7k range and have 125k to 150k miles, but I'd like to be on the low side of both. I've seen several for about $4k that mechanically were good but had cosmetic damage which made it not worth it. I can and will do any work I can myself but this being a "new" car I don't have experience or some of the specialty tools that may be needed, nor does my wife want me spending the entire weekend working on her car! I've heard from a few people that they spent about $500 per year, unless they needed brakes, or tires, or some other consumable. Keep in mind that we are used to maintaining a honda, so we spend about $1k every 3 - 4 years when we need some major service, tune up, brakes, tires, etc. In other words It's cheap. I'm just thinking that the merc will end up costing too much in the end....

[ohlord]

one with the 19inch rims run away as far and as fast as you can.

me personally i would open the area searched and fly and drive back a car that has had all the work done.
I.E.
SELLING BEAUTIFUL MERCEDES WAGON 320E/GREAT DEAL/ CLEAN TITLE - $6950 (Glendale) 120K miles
Selling my beautiful Mercedes E320 Mercedes wagon 2000. Only 120 K Miles. Great condition. Meticulously maintained with records. White exterior/beige interior leather. Over 3K recently invested. New tires, New Tune-up, New shocks, New Accumulators, New airflow sensors e.t.c. Third seat in rear, seats 7 people. Factory Bose sound with cd changer. Clean title. New Registration...
offer $5500 cash after you have it fully inspected.
and don't budge
You will have no rust issues with a socal car.
White wagons stay cool, keep their shine
People in glendale that have all the records have spent the money at the dealer and taken care of the car.
The owner is well to do needed a car that showed his status and hauled his gear.

Heck I might even fly down inspect it make an offer and drive it home. I could use another wagon

[ohlord]

buy the right car and you won't spend 500 bucks over 5 years.
Brakes included. Tires exempted,but the one I pointed out has new tires.
Anyone that spends 500 a year on a solid platform like a w210 bought poorly,bought sight unseen,did not inspect,or got duped.

[desired_speeds]

Originally Posted by ohlord

buy the right car and you won't spend 500 bucks over 5 years.
Brakes included. Tires exempted,but the one I pointed out has new tires.
Anyone that spends 500 a year on a solid platform like a w210 bought poorly,bought sight unseen,did not inspect,or got duped.

truth^ I've had my w210 for just over a year, and what has actually broken on me is one wheel bearing and a blower motor regulator. I just spent some money on wear and tear items normal for a 10 year old car. Get a solid car, replace all wear items and you'll be doing only oil changes for a long time.

[Hirnbeiss]

If it's over 100K it should have had new O2 sensors ($300) and tranny fluid change ($200). Probably needs, or will soon, new tie rod ends, flex disc, motor mounts. AC freon may leak. Alternator brushes, fan clutch, thermostat. Headliner fabric may start to sag. Whichever of those items were already done is a big plus on the value. If no records, assume you will have to do it at some point. These are all things you can do yourself, and the driveability over a CRV is usually worth it.

[wmillonig]

My '01 was trouble free (except for rear window regulators & batteries) until about 85K, then it's been $3-4K a year for the last 3. Tranny flush, O2 sensors, instrument cluster (make sure you don't have any missing pixels on temp gauge or transmission display), tie rod ends, ball joints, both catalytic converters, belt & tensioner, & a couple of other odds& ends. Been trouble free for last 6 months though, so I'm hoping to be on the other side of the repair curve and looking forward to generally trouble free operations. I'm up to 112K now, and (knock on wood) tranny & A/C so far have been running fine. If you can verify some of those main problems are taken care of, you'll love the ride. It's still a pleasure to drive.

[barndoor]

Originally Posted by wmillonig

My '01 was trouble free (except for rear window regulators & batteries) until about 85K, then it's been $3-4K a year for the last 3. Tranny flush, O2 sensors, instrument cluster (make sure you don't have any missing pixels on temp gauge or transmission display), tie rod ends, ball joints, both catalytic converters, belt & tensioner, & a couple of other odds& ends. Been trouble free for last 6 months though, so I'm hoping to be on the other side of the repair curve and looking forward to generally trouble free operations. I'm up to 112K now, and (knock on wood) tranny & A/C so far have been running fine. If you can verify some of those main problems are taken care of, you'll love the ride. It's still a pleasure to drive.

the car I looked at yesterday had virtually every single thing you mentioned fixed already, with the exception of the temp indicator and the shift indicator. Plus it had about 4 inches of maintennance records back to the beginning. It had everything, BUT still I wasn't convinced. There are some cosmetic issues that I feel I can pay a bit more and get a nicer car, but I am actually starting to think that a 100K mile or more car would be better since the repairs you spoke of would have already been done. I never should have test drove the car. It was WAAAAAYYY too much fun Waking up this morning I really would like to have it, I just know I should probably wait for the next best thing...

[Red66GT]

If you just have the slightest amount of experience in maintaining an "average" car, dont be afraid of the 210. My experience has been mostly with older, and 80's 90's cars and my 210 has been very easy to maintain. Just my .02

[CA_Tallguy]

Originally Posted by barndoor

I can and will do any work I can myself but this being a "new" car I don't have experience or some of the specialty tools that may be needed, nor does my wife want me spending the entire weekend working on her car!

If you DIY these cars are quite reasonable to maintain and you won't need a lot of specialty tools. There are very few specialty tools needed and I can't think of any that I own off hand. Oil changes might cost you a bit more as these cars have a high fluid capacity and you should use synthetic. Overall, these cars are VERY reasonable and inexpensive to own.

Originally Posted by barndoor

I've heard from a few people that they spent about $500 per year, unless they needed brakes, or tires, or some other consumable. Keep in mind that we are used to maintaining a honda, so we spend about $1k every 3 - 4 years when we need some major service, tune up, brakes, tires, etc. In other words It's cheap. I'm just thinking that the merc will end up costing too much in the end....

So doing the math on your above statement, it sounds like your guess on Honda expenses is $250 to $333 per year. Are you saying that the $500 number per year would be costing too much? If you are THAT price sensitive I'm not sure if this is the right car for you.

I'm not saying the $500 is right or wrong -- again, it depends on how much you DIY and if you end up doing the 100K+ service items or if they have already been done on the car you buy. I don't think it is actually the end of the world to have to do the 100K service items yourself if you get a car at the right price. These cars are pretty bulletproof. Obviously, a well maintained car is much preferable though.

Keep in mind that you might save a bunch of $$ in depreciation every year over another kind of car by buying a Mercedes like this and keeping it for 10 years. If you are comparing the total cost of 5 years of ownership including depreciation between a 2 year old honda and a 12 year old mercedes, the mercedes will win.

The bottom line is that if you can afford it (and you certainly don't have to be rich to afford it), then it is indeed a "smart" car to own and an excellent value. Just get the best car you can find but don't stress out too much with fear about buying the "wrong" car.

[barndoor]

All very well said. The comparison to our honda really isn't apples to apples, more of an long entrenched idea that mercedes are expensive and hondas are cheap. In my opinion I've noticed the price of parts and service for the "cheaper" makes (fords, hondas, etc) rising, making the idea of buying a european car that much more palatable. Value for money is a no brainer. Just right now I crammed one of our sons bike into the truck of our 74 BMW. It fit, but just barely and his is the small bike. When we have both kids and bikes we officially can't go anywhere without getting the rack out for the CRV. So to sum up you all failed miserably. I'm buying a wagon. You were supposed to talk me out of it! Now it's just a matter of finding the right one. I'm leaning towards finding one between 100k and 150k miles in hopes that some of the always needed expensive repairs are done, but maintenance records are king.

[RichardM98]

Consider setting aside about 20% of your total budget for after purchase expenses. That way even if your 'dream' car has a couple of warts you'll be able to address them.

I think a W210 wagon will appeal to your family. The interior can be configured to give almost as much room as a same era MB SUV! It is a safe car and is very economical on gasoline. My wagon has 130K+ and I get 19-20mpg around town and 29-30mpg on the highway consistently. Maintenance costs depend a lot on who does the work as others have mentioned. W210's have a FSS (Flexible Service System) built into the car's computer. It measures oil quality and driving habits to determine the correct time between oil changes. While polyester filters and Mobil 1 synthetic may seem expensive, the longer duration between changes makes the operating cost comparable to other cars. For the 4 1/2 years I have owned the car my routine maintenance (using factory recommended fluids/filters) and repairs have averaged about $280/year. FYI, I do my own maintenance and haven't needed tires yet.

There are plenty of nice W210's out there so just take the time to find the right one for you.

[CA_Tallguy]

If others have not pointed this out already, you may want to focus your search to a 2000 to 2002 model as those had a "facelift" over earlier W210's, and they had many improvements. One of those improvements I believe is side curtain airbags.

Also, I don't know a whole lot about the differences in the wagons but I believe one of the more costly parts can be the rear shocks as I think they are dynamic, self level type. Others will hopefully chime in about if there is anything special to know about those and failure rates. Just something you might want to ask a mechanic about checking in particular if you do a pre purchase inspection.

I think one of the other options you might run across is 4matic and again others will need to chime in about anything special to check for pre-purchase if you look at one of those.

[barndoor]

I've seen a few 4matics and don't discount them outright, but my sense is more stuff to go wrong. I'd take one in a heartbeat though if it was a good one.
Most of the standard model ones I've looked at are 2000 and 2001, but I still like the looks of the earlier, even the w124 which isn't off the table if a real perfect example shows up.
I already have a local ace merc mechanic waiting in the wings, but he will only be useful if it's a local purchase so odds are not that great. I see that southern CA has a better selection that up here in Northern Ca, but I'm unsure how to facilitate an inspection from this far away. Any suggestions? I'd travel to get the right car, but I'd want to know it will stand up to scrutiny before I get there.

[wmillonig]

2WD sedans suck in the snow, & although admittedly I've never owned one, I can' t imagine a wagon would be much different. I'm assuming you don't see much snow, but you might still want to give the 4matic serious consideration. I'm afraid I live on the wrong coast to help you check one out from SoCal though.

PS. Dead pixels only get worse over time and I couldn't find anyone but a dealer that would/could fix it. If you pick that one you had your eye on before, expect ~1500 to replace. Good luck and happy hunting!