In-Car Navigation Lost on Americans

[Oslo]

Quote: According to Renesas Technology, a major supplier of the chipsets that power in-car navigation systems, US consumers just aren’t all that interested in GPS navigation. Of the 17 million or so vehicles sold in the US last year, only 300,000 had navigation systems—and that includes aftermarket additions. Contrast that to Japan, where fourth-fifths of all cars sold last year had navigation units installed. There’s an easy explanation, of course: GPS displays take up one more space we could use to hold our beer. Renesas says they guess widespread adoption won’t occur in the US until prices drop into the $500 range, down from the current $2,500 or so.

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[krispykrme]

Originally Posted by Oslo

Quote:

According to Renesas Technology, a major supplier of the chipsets that power in-car navigation systems, US consumers just aren’t all that interested in GPS navigation. Of the 17 million or so vehicles sold in the US last year, only 300,000 had navigation systems—and that includes aftermarket additions. Contrast that to Japan, where fourth-fifths of all cars sold last year had navigation units installed. There’s an easy explanation, of course: GPS displays take up one more space we could use to hold our beer.

Renesas says they guess widespread adoption won’t occur in the US until prices drop into the $500 range, down from the current $2,500 or so.

I would also think that manuf are not offering navi on lower end cars to entice demand, and dealers are not ordering cars with navi.

Most consumers in US buys their car off the lot. If the dealer does not like to order the navi cars, many buyers would simply skip this feature.

In addition, majority of cars that comes with navi option from factory is at least $25k or above. So the market itself is somewhat limited to begin with.

A good example is Acura TL. The navi cars outsold none-navi cars. TL is selling very good in US, and a lot of people are ordering their car. So when they sit down and work out the numbers the navi is not a huge cost burden and people would order it. By buying car off the lot, you eliminated the chance for the customer to see and feel the navi, and chance for the consumer to realize that $2000 expanse on top of $30k car really isn't that much.

[DWP]

Originally Posted by Oslo

Quote:

There’s an easy explanation, of course: GPS displays take up one more space we could use to hold our beer.

There's an easy explanation, but it's a canard. Nav displays don't replace cupholders/beer can holders. It may be possible to explain the Japanese fondness for nav systems without resorting to cultural stereotypes. It possibly has to do with the convoluted, non-grid layout of Japanese streets and the frequent absence of street names and addresses (I assume that Japanese drivers specify a destination by a point-of-interest database, not an address, but that's another issue).

A better explanation of why more US drivers aren't ordering nav is that it's expensive and most US drivers don't need it. Only a small percentage of US drivers are travelling salespersons or real estate agents who frequently go to places they haven't been before. The vast majority of US drivers trudge the same well-worn path from home to work and back, or the same day care, or the same school, or the same Starbucks ... Of course, it's not unheard of for people to equip their cars with features they don't actually need, especially if the car costs $60K anyway and especially if the feature in question is gee-whizzy. Without the techo gee-whiz factor, US nav sales would be even lower than they already are.

[steph280]

I totally agree with Krispy. We buy cars from available inventory for better discount. And most cars on the lot either have no options, or are overloaded with too much options. One example, the only way to get a nav equipped Mercedes at local dealer was to buy one with premium package. And the only car with premium package will also have appearance package. So all of a sudden the price got jacked up by 10K for the stuff I don't need/want.

The Sienna was a different story. It was in such a short supply back then, people were buying whatever was available.

[SilverSL500]

Originally Posted by DWP

A better explanation of why more US drivers aren't ordering nav is that it's expensive and most US drivers don't need it.

Agree. With Streets & Trips style software, Expedia.com and others, its very simple, and cheap, to make your own maps for trips. Handheld GPS units are also cheap, and don't break the entire car if they won't work.

S

[SAguirre]

This problem is just like the ESP availability in US cars. A lot of American SUVs still don't have ESP as either options or standard equipment! A few years ago, Ford said that they did not think that their customer demand for ESP was big enough to make it a standard feature on the Ford Exploder.

Well, as it turned out, ESP was only available with the ultrasonic parking aide, parktronic. This made the cost for ESP significantly more expensive and the US consumer opted out from paying for both things. As a result, due to the packaging of options, they thought that ESP was not wanted. How STUPID could that be???

The exact details might be off, but my main idea is accurate. I think that the same can be said about navigation systems in the US. On the other side of things, it always used to be that very few cars in Europe had power steering. A VW Polo or a Fiat Punto would have harder steering than a 3-ton pickup truck! It was believed that Europeans did not want power steering. Well, that is now changing and most European cars now have power steering even if they are small cars.

I am sure that this will eventually change,

Steve

[alewifebp]

And remember that in the Japanese market, providing a single DVD with advnaced features was easier since the country is much smaller compared to the US. Hence, earlier availability. While a single CD would have covered Japan back in the early days of nav developement, you would need several CD's to cover the US, as MB still was using up through 2004 in many cars, making it a difficult system to use at best.

But the most important consideration is the way that dealers order the car, as has been stated. Since the US is a very instant society, we just want something NOW, which means whatever is on the lot. Most people don't want to go through the hassle of adding a secondary add-on system, either.

But, as the feature is now becoming available in a lot of mass market cars, such as the Accord, we should start seeing it reach a little bit more of a critical mass.

And if dealers were smart, they would order them with nav, and sell them on the "safety" of the nav. The ability to help people navigate out of unknown areas, especially in our urbanized environment (with the associated higher crime rate), should be an easy sell (assuming a reasonable price).

[krispykrme]

Originally Posted by alewifebp

And remember that in the Japanese market, providing a single DVD with advnaced features was easier since the country is much smaller compared to the US. Hence, earlier availability. While a single CD would have covered Japan back in the early days of nav developement, you would need several CD's to cover the US, as MB still was using up through 2004 in many cars, making it a difficult system to use at best.

But the most important consideration is the way that dealers order the car, as has been stated. Since the US is a very instant society, we just want something NOW, which means whatever is on the lot. Most people don't want to go through the hassle of adding a secondary add-on system, either.

But, as the feature is now becoming available in a lot of mass market cars, such as the Accord, we should start seeing it reach a little bit more of a critical mass.

And if dealers were smart, they would order them with nav, and sell them on the "safety" of the nav. The ability to help people navigate out of unknown areas, especially in our urbanized environment (with the associated higher crime rate), should be an easy sell (assuming a reasonable price).

Generally agree with this comment, except the discs issues.

Japan is a very dense country. It probably has way more destination points then entire US combined. The land size for US is bigger, but majority of the town are not mapped to the greatest detail like the Japanese disc. In addition, majority of japanese navi maps are 3 dimensional with accurate picture of the actual exist. Hence i wouldn't be suprised that the japanese DVD packs more data than US discs.

A lot of strange behavior in US car market can be attributed to the dealership groups. They are simply creating a dis-service to both consumers and manufacturers.

I still never understand why US would not allow manuf. to directly sell car to consumers. Instead, we have the greedy middleman that provide neither service or better pricing to consumers.

[Expat]

I agree that a lot of it comes down to price and packaging, adding one to our SUV cost ~$1600 and it's a Dodge!
Having said that, it's become indispensible so I'm now looking to add one to my MB (when/if it ever arrives).

[larryssf]

The comments on this subject that make the most sense are the American mentality that "I want it now!, not wait for 90 days". The inventory mix at luxury dealerships can not stand in the way of a 3 hours sale. The result is dealers will not order a Navi system with a $85 profit that could stop a sale.

My personal decision to order it is two fold. 50% "gee whiz" and 50%: Glancing at a Yahoo computer generated map can cause a very large dent in my expensive car. While I admit that I infrequently go to unkown locations, it only takes once. It is funny that the last time I experienced this was on the way to the "Love Mercedes" event in Alameda, Ca. Quite a difficult place to navigate. Came within inches of smashing into a vintage Mercedes!! Probably on the way to the same event.

The other option ordered was out of real need. Parktronic was only of interest when I bashed by plastic bumper into a 30 foot concrete lighting pole at a shopping center that had apparently moved since I parked an hour earlier. . Changed my order the next week.

I am also old enough to remember when power windows were an expensive and unneccesary option. Navigation systems within five years will be less expensive and a standard option on most cars.

My 2 cents

[krispykrme]

Originally Posted by larryssf

The comments on this subject that make the most sense are the American menality that "I want it now!, not wait for 90 days". The inventory mix at luxury dealerships can not stand in the way of a 3 hours sale. The result is dealers will not order a Navi system with a $85 profit that could stop a sale.

My personal decision to order it is two fold. 50% "gee whiz" and 50%: Glancing at a Yahoo computer generated map can cause a very large dent in my expensive car. While I admit that I infrequently go to unkown locations, it only takes once. It is funny that the last time I experienced this was on the way to the "Love Mercedes" event in Alameda, Ca. Quite a difficult place to navigate. Came within inches of smashing into a vintage Mercedes!! Probably on the way to the same event.

The other option ordered was out of real need. Parktronic was only of interest when I bashed by plastic bumper into a 30 foot concrete lighting pole at a shopping center that had move since I parked the park an hour ealier. . Changed my order the next week.

I am also old enough to remember when power windows were an expensive and unneccesary option. Navigation systems within ten years will be standard
on most cars.

My 2 cents

Larry, next time when you are driving please holler. I am scared to get next to you.

hehe. Just joking.

PS. How can they move a concrete pole within the hour?

[larryssf]

Krispykrme:

My sad attempt at humor. I was trying to explain the accident my claiming they moved the pole in my absence. Better than admitting I did not see it.

Good news for you and Fremont: I just left a job in your city, so the chances of "running" into me are greatly reduced. Be careful in S.F.

PS: Do they have homes in Fremont with six car garages? Five existing cars with one on the way. I realize that there are some rather large homes in your town, but I did not realize they might include space for that many vehicles.

[krispykrme]

Originally Posted by larryssf

Krispykrme:

My sad attempt at humor. I was trying to explain the accident my claiming they moved the pole in my absence. Better than admitting I did not see it.

Good news for you and Fremont: I just left a job in your city, so the chances of "running" into me are greatly reduced. Be careful in S.F.

PS: Do they have homes in Fremont with six car garages? Five existing cars with one on the way. I realize that there are some rather large homes in your town, but I did not realize they might include space for that many vehicles.

I know. I am just messing with you. There is no way to move a pole within the hour.

No, i have two houses in fremont. The house that I live in right now has 4 car garage (actually is two car wide, but two cars deep, so you can park 4 cars in it). The other is a small house with 2 car garage, which I normally do not use (but I usually use it to hide my purchases that i don't want my wife to find out). My drive way is big enough that i can park two cars on each side without blocking the garage door, so I usually leave the E500 outside.

[Double Eagle]

[quote=Oslo]Quote:
Of the 17 million or so vehicles sold in the US last year, only 300,000 had navigation systems—and that includes aftermarket additions. QUOTE]

This number seems low to me. I personally wouldnt be without a NAV in my car and I take my portable Magellan RoadMate 700 with me whenever I travel and use a Rental Car. Much better than having to print out maps in advance. Most of my friends are getting Nav systems in their new cars and this includes Honda, GM and Ford drivers as well as Lexus, BMW and MB owners.

The major benefit of the Nav is when you are going somewhere you've never been before. I also like getting the heads up in advance as to what lane to be in to get on or off a freeway. Today, I had to go and pick up a part for my boat at a person's house I'd never been in a hard to find location. Rather than copy down detailed directions, I just input his address and got there without any problem. It even gave directions inside of his gated community.

I seldom use the cup holders in my vehicles (my wife does) but love my NAV and iPod. By the way, I prefer the after market Magellan RoadMate 700 Nav system to my built in MB system. Better advance warning by voice and on the screen, 3D directions near turns and a more user friendly interface. However, the MB system is adequate and I especially like the British voice on mine and the ability to watch DVD's when stopped. (one big benefit of the 2003 NAV replacements we got in late 2003).

[1SICKLEX]

Well they sell a lot less cars in Japan than America. And the market is different. There the smaller the car the better. Space is limited. Here,is the exact opposite, the bigger the better. Trucks and SUVs rule. And Japan always has the new gadgets. Their NAV is a step ahead of ours. Their cell phones are. Etc etc

And as some stated, only the more expensive cars generally have NAV. Few sub Luxury cars have it. Accord, Camry, Mazda 3,etc etc. And it adds 2k to the price of a cheaper car and that can be 10% of the purchase price.

Hell, HIDs still haven't trickled all the way down.

[larryssf]

Krispykrme:

How dare you leave the E-500 outside in the cold cruel world. The 500 deserves a warm bed. Mine will never be left alone. Of course, I have a one car garage and no wife.

Enough of this off topic stuff before we are banished to a Lexus Forum. :p

[billycwhatup]

As I posted a few days ago, I've just ordered an E350 for ED in May. One of the hardest option choices for me was the NAV system. To echo what others have said, my interest in a NAV system is when I'm NOT at home - in other words, when I'm travelling on business. For me, a great portable system is much more attractive to me than a fixed one. To boot, I greatly prefer the input of the portable ones (either keyboard or Palm based).

Of course, the system is cool to have in the car. But, ultimately I decided against it.

The sales guy spoke about the loss of resale value without it, but as technology evolves, it's hard to believe that 3-5 years from now somehow is going to be hot for what will then be an old system.

Anyway, I did the portables and am going in that direction.

[BudC]

When I bought my new car the salesman asked me if I planned to deliver pizza. When I said no, he asked my why I needed the Nav system.

My view is that for a few dollars more I can buy a laptop and install Streets and Trips with GPS locator. This combo works best with a navigator.

[GearHead]

Originally Posted by BudC

When I bought my new car the salesman asked me if I planned to deliver pizza. When I said no, he asked my why I needed the Nav system.

My view is that for a few dollars more I can buy a laptop and install Streets and Trips with GPS locator. This combo works best with a navigator.

I think that if and when the price drops on the Navi option, there will be more folks opting for one.

Before my W211, I have never had a car with Navi. Always had felt that it was a glorified Thomas Guide. Though, it sounded cool having one.

Recently, while driving home from work, got caught in massive traffic problem due to closure of 2 major freeways going Northbound in LA. I ventured into many undesireable LA neighborhoods while finding ways to get North. If I didn't have my Navi, I could have been a statistic in LAPD's file. The Navi guided me throughout and after 2 hours, I got home.

I am now SOLD. Every of my next car purchases will have some sort of Navi

My 2cents

[MB-JIM]

One of the most useful functions for me has been having "Home" in memory.
Wherever I am I just punch "Home' and I'm on my way. This is helpful when I'm visiting places like our exclusive subdivisions like Desert Mountain or Desert Highlands. The many curving roads and lack of lighting make it confusing on how to get out to the main street. With "Home" I just have to follow directions until I recognize the road.
With the many restaurants in our area it's not uncommon to be meeting someone at a restaurant that I haven't been to before so I just punch it in and go right to the door.
In travelling out of town it is great to have hotels and filling stations easy to find.
My first nav was on a CLK that I bought because the car was available even though I didn't want the nav. Now three MB's later that I wouldn't have bought without nav.

[steph280]

While the home feature is useful, it has been brought up before that if your car was ever stolen, the thief can be guided to your house, and open your garage door with homelink. NOT GOOD!

I now set my home address with a near major cross street instead of actual home.

[MadManAboutTown]

Originally Posted by steph280

While the home feature is useful, it has been brought up before that if your car was ever stolen, the thief can be guided to your house, and open your garage door with homelink. NOT GOOD!

I now set my home address with a near major cross street instead of actual home.

If your car is stolen, your registration papers would have your exact address anyway. Besides, where I live, the nav system goes "off-road" about 2 miles from my house so a thief would never find it using that method.

And if you knew your car was missing, all you need to do is "vacation-mode" your garage door opener to prevent a remote's use... after you contact MBUSA so they can locate the car/thief via GPS

I understand your points, but frankly I would be more paranoid if someone stole all of my ids/passwords to my online accounts!

[Dema]

I do not know how it is in other countries, but navigation systems in US are very buggy. My Lexus navigation system is so buggy, so it's completely useless. Certainly I had no choice because a dealer had in stock only cars with navigation. Major mistake of my Lexus navigation was bringing me 30 miles away of my actual destination. On my luck I had low details paper map, so I could reach the place I was going. Funny, that when I reached my destination, Lexus showed correct address and map. List of bugs in my navigation endless, I contacted Lexus, but they told me about disclaimer that navigation can work wrong. So tell me what's value of navigation? To be proud Benz owner I could say that MB navigation has less bugs, however it useless, as map replacement, so if it can't guide you in destination, you can't use it as a map, so you had to have a spare paper map with you.

[glojo]

Navigation systems are an excellent driver aid, that may, or may not be required. For me it is simply a case of 'peace of mind'.

My wife is the main user of the car and no matter where she wants to go, the navigation system will direct her. The destination is inserted before she starts, there is no need to look down at any screen, the voice comes through the cars speakers in a cool, calm, clear voice, which takes out all the stress, worry of getting lost. We might only use the system once every four to six weeks, but so what?

My daughter wanted to visit a University some 150 miles away, in a town that we had never been to, and had no knowledge of. The post code was installed and hey presto, all done. door to door driving without the need to look out for road signs, worry about missing the turn-off, or being late. When we get dynamic routing it will be even more impressive, traffic hold-ups, road works, delays will no longer be a worry. For delivery drivers, couriers etc. this aid would pay for itself within months. Time is money, good accurate routing will save time. Folks are commenting on size of country? Our system covers the whole of Europe by Postcode, but it is unlikely our vehicle will ever leave England.

I watched a documentary the other night and Japanese systems are now mind blowingly unbelievable. They are 3D, and display the ACTUAL shops, buildings etc. If you are driving by a McDonalds, it will show the McDonalds! They claim the next innovation will be the actual cars on the road?

If I buy a new car, I buy one to MY specifications, everything in the vehicle is down to my choice. I suppose the best example of this is my Sprinter. That has everything, including an excellent DVD navigation system. All stipulated when ordering, yes there was a wait, but so what? Just order the vehicle 90 days earlier.

I do not understand the arguement about taking up more space. What would fit where the screen is located?

Just my personal observation,
John

[krispykrme]

Originally Posted by Dema

I do not know how it is in other countries, but navigation systems in US are very buggy. My Lexus navigation system is so buggy, so it's completely useless. Certainly I had no choice because a dealer had in stock only cars with navigation. Major mistake of my Lexus navigation was bringing me 30 miles away of my actual destination. On my luck I had low details paper map, so I could reach the place I was going. Funny, that when I reached my destination, Lexus showed correct address and map. List of bugs in my navigation endless, I contacted Lexus, but they told me about disclaimer that navigation can work wrong. So tell me what's value of navigation? To be proud Benz owner I could say that MB navigation has less bugs, however it useless, as map replacement, so if it can't guide you in destination, you can't use it as a map, so you had to have a spare paper map with you.

This is BS. And I have posted picture to prove that you are wrong.

Mercedes navi is by far one of the poor one that is on the market right now.

All toyota/honda systems are year beyond mercedes navi. Even the latest BMW DVD navi is a step better than mercedes DVD system.

As i have showed earlier, my toyota navi can find exact address and has much better search capabilities than mercedes navi.

If lexus's navi is buggy, then our mercedes system can be thrown in the trash can.

I have used early toyota dvd navi in 2001, and their 4th generation currently on their cars. Even in its initial form in 2001, the lexus DVD navi is faster, responds quicker, and has better capabilities.

I have experience with mercedes CD-rom based navi (on my G and wife's CLK), and DVD rom navi (on the both W211). None of them comes close to the old 2001 toyota dvd system. Not to mention the old 2000 Honda/alpine navi on the TL.

To this day i still don't understand what good does a navi do if it only brings you to the block where the destination is located. Even BMW in its slow and often crash MKIII system performed better in this respect (btw, their DVD mkIV system works quiet well).

Again, your comment really have me wonder, just because a car has the 3 point star on it does not mean it is a creation from god.