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Old 03-22-2005, 04:03 PM   #1
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Brabus CDI...anyone have Brabus chip?

Brabus offers to boost the E320 CDI to 250 HP and 560 n/m (414 lb-ft). They claim better low RPM elasticity and no compromise to driveability, warranty, or fuel economy.


I am considering Brabus instead of others to preserve warranty and avoid becoming another "Viesel"

KB
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:09 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdiken
Brabus offers to boost the E320 CDI to 250 HP and 560 n/m (414 lb-ft). They claim better low RPM elasticity and no compromise to driveability, warranty, or fuel economy.


I am considering Brabus instead of others to preserve warranty and avoid becoming another "Viesel"

KB
I've been giving it some thought as well, but the oil leak (apparently the oil pressure sender) has cooled my jets for a little while.

If you take the Brabus plunge, I'm buying lunch if I can swing a test ride somewhere in NoVA.
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Old 03-23-2005, 04:28 AM   #3
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Cost?



Not to appear nosey, which of course I am! :v

How much is it to have the chipping done by Brabus?

How is it that if Brabus does it, there is no problem with the warranty?

The fellow that did my '99 advertises 582 nm (429 ft/lb) torque for your cars, and
he has another one that he doesn't advertise on his site that has a little more.

At $275 dollars, I doubt if Brabus is competitive.

We think that Viesel used a box, and MBZ did know about it. If you'll remember,
Viesel said that his car was having the problem prior to his modifying it.


Last edited by Green E-300 DT; 03-23-2005 at 04:54 AM. Reason: Adding to my original post.
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:06 PM   #4
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Brabus cost and warranty:

Brabus upfits are available through MB dealers, some MB dealers are listed on the Brabus North America website as distributors for Brabus.

http://www.brabus-usa.com/distributors.html

I would presume (although I'm not a lawyer and may be sadly mistaken) that if an MB shop is the only person(s) that ever performs work on your car, and they also sold you the car, it would assign single-point resposibility to MB.

As far as cost, are you sitting down?
$3750.00 before labor, $200 labor, $3950.00 + tax = North of $4K.

At that price, obviously I have to consider other chips, no chip at all, or just getting an E500 and putting the extra $ toward fuel.

KB
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Old 03-23-2005, 03:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdiken
As far as cost, are you sitting down?
$3750.00 before labor, $200 labor, $3950.00 + tax = North of $4K.

KB

I had seen the "1995" number for the cost of the D6(II) mod, and only now realize that it was calibrated in Pounds Sterling.

Oops. At least I figured that out before I ordered one.

I think the CDI is already a little bit of a sleeper, another 40-odd horses would be a hoot.
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:26 PM   #6
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Your Choice is Clear



At least IMHO.

After getting up off of the floor . .

Might I suggest that either of you talk to Oliver at SpeedTuning and at least listen to what he has to say.
It'll only cost you a phone call, and if you don't ask, the answer is always 'no.'

http://www.speedtuningusa.com/ . .

click on Products/Buy, then click on the Benz star, and read the various programs.

Ask Oliver if MBZ will be able to 'see' if he modifies the chip in your computer?

As far as getting an E-500, you've already got 30 ft/lb more torque than the gas hungry V8, and after
you do a SpeedTuning modification you will have at least an additional 90 ft/lb more than the E-500.
As you may know, 99 percent of the time, it is that extra torque you want,
and not several dozen extra horsepower way up in the rpm scale.

Save your money. FOUR grand plus, are they crazy or what?

Good luck.


Last edited by Green E-300 DT; 03-23-2005 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 03-23-2005, 09:22 PM   #7
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A few choices

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdiken
Brabus offers to boost the E320 CDI to 250 HP and 560 n/m (414 lb-ft). They claim better low RPM elasticity and no compromise to driveability, warranty, or fuel economy.


I am considering Brabus instead of others to preserve warranty and avoid becoming another "Viesel"

KB
To my knowledge, there are two categories:
1. tuning that either plug-in direct to ECU or ECU reprogramming. This group consists of Brabus, C-Tronic, DMS

2. Tuning box that altered the H/P pump that connected to various sensnors: alpine tuning and all other tuning boxes.

most of them claimed 30-50hp, 80-100ftlbs increase.

I was considering C-Tronic from Carlsson, about $1.6k. I did not get it since I am not the primary driver for our CDI...
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Old 03-23-2005, 10:03 PM   #8
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Why?



would anyone even consider spending more than $275 for an improvement to the performance of their car.
No taxes are involved, the only additional expenses to the car owner will be overnight
shipping charges both ways to and from Maryland and possibly a mechanic's charges
to R & R the computer if the car owner is unable to do it themselves.

I say this. IF I can do it at age 68 with my bad back, almost anyone else should
be able to remove their own computer also, unless they might happen
to be in a wheelchair or bedridden or a complete clutz.

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Old 03-24-2005, 03:55 AM   #9
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Hi!

From my knowledge here in Germany the Carlsson C-Tronic is the most popular and most safe performance kit for Diesel cars. Carlsson is not increasing rail pressure but is manipulating the injection timing, which is a much more elegant and gentle way to improve the performance of the engine. It's an additional module which is being connected to the original ECU (Plug & Play).

I only can warn everybody to get the original ECU reprogrammed because you will lose orginal MB-warranty and every system check by a MB stardiagnosis sytem will easily show the manipulation!! In the end cheap diesel tuning will cost you a fortune, that's for sure!!

If anybody is interested please visit the official Carlsson website www.carlsson.de and get first hand information about their advanced diesel performance kits....and please don't trust so-called "specialists" who simply increase rail pressure without having any clue about the consequences of such a manipulation!
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Old 03-24-2005, 05:04 AM   #10
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Here is some more detailed information about the Carlsson C-Tronic performance kits for CDI-engines I found in the internet.

Last edited by Sauerkraut; 10-11-2006 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 03-25-2005, 11:56 AM   #11
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wait until the warrenty runs out, then get yourself a rocketchip (www.rocketchip.com) for like 800$
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Old 03-26-2005, 05:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messerchmidt
wait until the warrenty runs out, then get yourself a rocketchip (www.rocketchip.com) for like 800$
Yes, this is indeed a fantastic idea!
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Old 03-27-2005, 10:22 PM   #13
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1600$-5000$ is insane for a chip/tunning box.

the barb one is reasonable only because you still get warrenty.

Best thing, try and get yourself another ECU, maybe from a euro-spec E320CDI that will work in your car. I am sure that with a reflash it will be good to go.
Disc the battery and swap ECUs, when you go in for service, swap the original back in. MB will not know the difference, you can say you disc your battery for a variety of reasons if they ask, they cannot say otherwise. warrenty of those things is worth the papers its written on's weight in GOLD.

Get the extra ECU chipped by rocketchip or upsolute, much cheaper then the others and about the same thing. Both rocketchip and upsolute know thier stuff, they do more car chips then barb and carls. they do not want engines gernading and then thier companies taking the bad rap for it.

you might also want to add a boost valve to protect the turbo (www.boostvalve.com) and maybe a Catchcan. Dunno if the E320CDI will have intake clogging problems though like the VW TDIs do, catch-can if not EGR mod is available will solve that.

best thing, wait until the warrenty is overwith. if you have no problems by then, alright then modify your car. that is my advise to you.

do not waste your $ with tunning boxes, chips are much better on diesels. Box wont increase your boost, a chip will.
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Old 03-28-2005, 09:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messerchmidt
wait until the warrenty runs out, then get yourself a rocketchip (www.rocketchip.com) for like 800$


Yes sir. Spending $800 when $275 will get the job done just as well and maybe better.

Pick up an extra ECU. Where? How much? Another good thought!

Good thinking! You must work for the goverment!

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Old 03-28-2005, 09:27 PM   #15
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Thumbs down Good Suggestions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Messerchmidt
you might also want to add a boost valve to protect the turbo (www.boostvalve.com) and maybe a Catchcan. Dunno if the E320CDI will have intake clogging problems though like the VW TDIs do, catch-can if not EGR mod is available will solve that.


Simply amazing.

You think the dealer will be able to tell that the car is chipped, but then advise adding a boost valve and a catch-can as if the techs are blind.

Don't you think (yeh right!) that those two things are just a little bit more obvious, even to the lowly grease monkey?

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Old 03-29-2005, 01:31 AM   #16
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Hello!

Well, I see there are already a lot of "experts" for diesel tuning in the US who know everything about state of the art - diesel engines like CDI. Exactly the same happended here in Germany some time ago when diesel engines became extremely popular. Immediately there appeared so-called specialists claiming to have invented the "perpetuum mobile" for diesel engines...but most of them turned out to be absolute beginners in this field causing thousands of engine collapses by their "experienced work". Now guess whot had to pay the bill in the end? The specialists? No way! Customers like YOU were the victims who had to pay repair of their engines by themselves!!

Cheaper does not mean better! You have paid a lot of money to drive one of the best cars in the world and then you want to save some hundred bucks when you want to tune the most sensitive and expensive part of your car (engine)?

Many thousand customers in Europe had to learn their lesson on the hard way....will you do the same mistake again? I don't hope so, try to be more clever.....and save your money for replacement engine or rail pump!
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Old 03-29-2005, 02:32 PM   #17
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Angry Really!



Do you even own a diesel? How is it you think you know what's what about MBZ diesels?

When you have had ten MBZ diesels beginning with a 1961 190 Db, come talk to us.

When you own one and have chipped it as I have done to mine, then
perhaps you will be qualified to talk about this subject. But only then!

Last edited by Green E-300 DT; 03-29-2005 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 04-02-2005, 11:35 AM   #18
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I had a 1998 jetta TDI, which I bought new while I was still @ University.
I had it under my mother names. (if something ever broke, I would send her there to yell at them to fix it, much cheaper to insure as well)

The dealer can tell that you moded it if things are not perfect in there. But can they prove it....In court the judge is on your side unless your a complete moron and sloppy. Do not admit anything.

I had that one chipped (upsolute), the EGR sensor disabled, added a VR6 clutch, and a catch can. (later I added a boost value, 50$ you cannot go wrong)

I did all the maintinance myself. That car was perfect.

I just changed the chips on the ECUs, back then they were not soildered on.

In the new CDI it is soildered on. You can get a spare ECU from germany, you just need to make sure that you get one that will work with your car. Maybe like 700$. Get it chipped(reflashed) for another 700$. If you do not know where to get parts, then you are royally screwed. Better to just go to MB for the BARB. chip.

if you ever need to go in for service or warrenty - you remove everything, put grease all over the place. Most importantly, admit nothing if they ask you. Never ever admit anything.

you save maybe 2500$ this way, but you take the risk. If you do not want to be bothered with these games, get the MB chip and negotiate with them. Talk to the manager or sales guy who sold you the car and tell them to hook you up. They want you to come back so they probably will, instead of $4500 it may become say 3500$ or less.

Also after its modified watch the oil they/you use in there. It becomes even more important. I recc Mobil1 Delavc 5w40 (also sold as Mobil1 Truck and SUV 5w40).

I am going to grab a CDI in another 2 years for like 36$k canadian at an auction. If the car is good I will keep it, if not then it goes out on my buddy's car lot. That one is getting chipped as soon as I am sure that it is ok.

Last edited by Messerchmidt; 04-02-2005 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 04-14-2005, 07:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green E-300 DT


Do you even own a diesel? How is it you think you know what's what about MBZ diesels?

When you have had ten MBZ diesels beginning with a 1961 190 Db, come talk to us.

When you own one and have chipped it as I have done to mine, then
perhaps you will be qualified to talk about this subject. But only then!

Hello Green E-300DT,

I have done 150.000 km with my former company car, a W203 C270 CDI...so you certainly allow me to talk about diesel engines, right? :-)

Oh, I see you started chiptuning already in 1961 on your 190DB, wow! Mr. Diesel would have been proud of you! ;-)

The engine of your car does not have the modern technology of CDI-engines and this is what I am talking about here...I do not discuss at all about old-fashioned "oil-burners" like your engine!

Please do not mess around different topics, the bitter truth nowadays IS that tuning of CDI-engines belongs into the hands of specialists (and there are really only a few of them!), who know what to do and NOT to "backstreet tuners" who pretend to be specialists because they know how to connect their laptop to the engine management! ;-)
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Old 04-14-2005, 02:28 PM   #20
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If you do not want to do monkey business such as swapping ECUs,etc and not have to worry if it breaks, then go for Brabus. Try to talk them down though, that is still a lot of $ for a chip.

I know what I did with my old Jetta, thank god I never had a problem, but they would be hard pressed to prove that I caused it if there was a problem. They can always attempt to void your warrenty, but if it goes to court, and you did the mods and unmods right, they will lose.

You have to lie, if they ask you what an engine is, you point to the tire, and tell them to make it work or your gona go buy a "L-e-x-u-s". They bill MB-USA for the repairs, the dealer does not really care. When a new MB diesel engine with install can cost maybe $8000 US, you would have to take it to court. If you lose it is a problem.

I am thinking that the price of the barb chip should include extras such as a larger oil cooler, a transmission fluid cooler, perhaps a different injection rail, and such as well as the added warrenty. Things that help prevent a moded car from going BOOM!, if it includes all of that, it is probably worth it.
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:06 AM   #21
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I always get concerned when I read about people wanting to 'chip' their engines and then removing it to try to deceive the dealer if things go wrong!!!!

If you are not prepared to accept the consequences of your decision which you are not forced to make.... then don't do it.

The Viesel saga is a prime example of what I am talking about. The truth behind that whole saga will I believe never fully be known. I think 'detectives' have done excellent research and the truth is almost 'out there'

Several years ago I had a V-class 220CDI, with a terrible vibration problem. A technician travelled down from Mercedes-BenzUK with a specilised
piece of computer equipment???? This was connected to the vehicle and a whole rain forest worth of paper work was printed out on the engine. I am sure it even disclosed the mothers maiden name of the employee that fitted the engine. Seriously though he had a printed record of all the peaks, troughs of the various engines components, max revs, fuel flow, compression per cylinder etc etc I think it would have been very easy to see if the engine had been performing beyond its specified parameters.

If you want to play with your chips fine but as the saying goes..... If you can't stand the heat then don't go into the kitchen.

The 320CDI is an excellent engine with plenty of horses for the job it's designed to do. If it is not fast enough then go for a European final drive?? or E55AMG.

Sorry to be such a grump,

John
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Old 04-15-2005, 11:16 PM   #22
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Miss the old diesels with the mechanical pump that allowed for you to release six screws, pop the governor cover, and using the same screwdriver, adjust the full load stop along with setting max engine speed fuel cut to 6K rpm. That's all! If you're handy, you could get it done without having to remove the IP from the car. All in an afternoon's work.

Of course what I'm talking about is the same thing that chipping does. If you were to "chip" or overload fuel quantity, you should always have the proper equipment. Pyrometer being the most essential instrument.

The first Mercedes diesels that were chippable came about in '93. The first implementation of a fully electronic diesel system ECU.
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Old 04-20-2005, 10:54 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauerkraut
Hello Green E-300DT,

I have done 150.000 km with my former company car, a W203 C270 CDI...so you certainly allow me to talk about diesel engines, right? :-)

Oh, I see you started chiptuning already in 1961 on your 190DB, wow! Mr. Diesel would have been proud of you! ;-)

The engine of your car does not have the modern technology of CDI-engines and this is what I am talking about here...I do not discuss at all about old-fashioned "oil-burners" like your engine!

Please do not mess around different topics, the bitter truth nowadays IS that tuning of CDI-engines belongs into the hands of specialists (and there are really only a few of them!), who know what to do and NOT to "backstreet tuners" who pretend to be specialists because they know how to connect their laptop to the engine management! ;-)


I know that English is not your primary tongue, but go back and read my post for content!

I did not say I chipped my first diesel, that 190 Db. That is not possible as anyone who has ever looked under the hood and knows anything about those older diesels will tell you.
How can you chip a car that has no computer, and doesn't even need a battery in it to run?

I did say that I have chipped my W-210 E-300 DT. I also chipped my 2002 TDI. Both cars have had no problems.

You will find that there are many here in the U S that have and do chip there diesels. Do you think that some European developed the chips for the Powerstrokes, Duramaxs and Cummins Pick-ups?

Are you saying that these tuners don't know what they are doing?
Well I am here to tell you that with my two examples, the local tuners sure do.

Get hold of Diesel Car in England, and read the ads in that magazine, and then tell me that there aren't tuners all over the World that know there stuff. Read the article about the A6 that was tuned with a 'plug in' module that runs 0-60 mph in less than 6 seconds, and then tell us how that happened unless someone there knew what they were doing.

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