Taiwanese

Hi,

A family member is looking for an used E. What should we look out for? What would we avoid?

Looking at spending $40k or less. We could get a Lexus ES330 new, loaded for $36k out the door (in CA). But the E is very nice........

I know this is very general question. Any input will be appreicated.

Thanks.

DWP

Given your price point, you're probably looking for an E320, unless you come across a high-mileage E500.

There isn't a huge difference between an '03 and '04 E320, since both have the five-speed transmission. If navigation is important to you, you're more likely to find it on an '04; I don't even know if nav was available on an '03. A lot of people take it as an article of faith that an '03 is inherently less reliable than an '04, since the '03 was the first year of the W211. I don't argue with matters of faith.

Some things to look out for with an '03 or an '04:

1. Audio system malfunctions, typically, the radio shutting down and (sometimes) restarting. This can be fixed by a firmware upgrade or hardware replacement; check to see if this has been done on a car you are considering.

2. Bad engine mounts. Listen for any unusual clicking/ticking noises from the engine area.

3. SBC recalls. See if a car that you are considering is subject to a recall, and if it is, whether the recall work has been done.

Also, keep in mind that a Mercedes is a Mercedes, but a Lexus ES330 is a Toyota Camry. That's not necessarily all bad - the Camry is a fine car - but if your family member is interested in driving their car, as opposed to riding in it, the Mercedes is the way to go.

hotwiredbenz

i bought a 03 e500 for just about 40k. i had to have several TSB Bulletins taken care of including the motor mounts, the steering wheel twitching, and knocking sound from front suspension. Also had to have the front rotors replaced (not under warranty) and all the SBC recalls addressed. After all this, the car FINALLY runs the way it should and for the last 5,000 miles or so, its been running just fine. The car itself is a pleasure to drive...personally I would go with teh 500 as the 320 is really underpowered. You will regret not gettin the V8 trust me.

Taiwanese

Thanks for your quick reply. I especially like your last sentence about driving versus riding.

hotwiredbenz

also make sure you get the car with some factory warranty left on it. Personally Id also get one with xenons as well as the stock halogens really suck

Benz-E-r

If they may want MP3 capability or an AUX port definetly make sure it has COMAND, while you can find an '03 with it the '04 is much easier to source. COMAND units provide an AUX port in the glove compartment, the AUDIO50 has none and you end up with a tape adapter or FM transmitter for connecting your device of choice.

Also consider 4matic (it should not seriously effect the price on a pre-owned) especially if you are in a climate with snow or heavy rain. I have a RWD E500, servicable but you have to give it a lot of respect even with snow tires. The '04 4matic wagon we just bought is oustanding even with the horrible stock tires, at least on wet roads.

I echo the prior sentiments, these are not Toyotas. At over 4000lbs our E500 4matic wagon blasts down parkways through turns at speeds and a composure I could not have dreamed of in our prior wagon.

Good luck!

monstaloc

I guess one of your concerns would be reliability. here's some insight from my own experiences being a first time mb owner.

i bought an '03 e500 and here are the reasons why I went to the dealer, other than for regular service. Maybe this will help you out.

All under warranty:
- Driver's head rest won't move\
- Air suspension leaked (twice)
- gears slipped, replaced transmission
- Battery module recall
- SBC recall
- burned cd's in the changer locked it up
- buzzing noise from rear seat area, dealer can't find out why

Now I just read that I can't get folding mirrors on my car. bummer. but like another user said, the car is running the way it should right now and it's great!

X72

Taiwanese, we own both cars. The Mercedes is a much better driving car. The Mercedes is a much better looking car. We have an 03 ES300 and an 05 ES330. The Mercedes has been in the repair shop approx. 10 to 12 times for non-maintenance issues over the three years we have owned it. The the two Lexi have been in the shop once each for the same issue which Toyota cannot resolve; transmission hesitation issues. Search the Lexus boards for this. Some people don't notice. We have learned to live with it. There is of course the oil sludge issue in front drive Toyota V6 engines. It is not an engine that is tolerant of extending the oil change interval.

The Toyota's AC is as good or better than the MB without needing the incredibly loud external cooling fan.

If you are going to buy the Lexus, take a long detailed test drive and make sure the exact car you are driving either doesn't have the hesitation issues or you find it is something you can live with. Read the bulletin boards and they will tell you all the ways you can replicate the issue.

If you are going to buy the Benz, get one with a long warranty.

William
2003 E320

X72

I post this from the us.lexusownersclub.com because it is the best explanatory theory and description that I have seen regarding the transmission behavior in the Lexus ES 330 and to remind all that all makers have their issues.

the following was posted by wwest

Hesitation.........RECAP


It appears that somewhere about the year 2000, possibly earlier, Toyota made a design change in the ECU control firmware for ALL transaxle, FWD, type automatic transmissions. Basically the modification involved upshifting the transaxles to a higher gear, say O/D, or maybe even into neutral, during coastdown circumstances wherein the gas pedal was fully released.

Many owners of the RX300 made note of this aspect, describing it as a feeling of being bumped lightly from behind just before coming to a full stop. At higher coastdown speeds owners described the feeling as the "slingshot effect", the vehicle "apparently" gaining speed upon throttle closure.

It is relatively easy to see that this design change would result in improved fuel economy and lower overall emissions. But if that were the real, or core reason, why not apply the same modification to Toyota's RWD based vehicles?

Why only the FWD or front biased AWD vehicle models?

The only possible answer, seemingly, was to eliminate or substantially reduce the instances of loss of control due to inadvertent, otherwise unavoidable, engine compression braking on, potentially, a very slippery roadbed.

And if you browse about here and there on the internet you will find that many RX300 owners are complaining about premature transaxle failures at 70,000 to 80,000 miles. And there is yet another clue. The owners manual for the RX300 series makes not recommendation for ATF flushing and replenishing for the life of the vehicle.

Yet at 40,000 miles the ATF in my 2001 AWD RX300 smelled burned and looked more brownish than pink. When I enquired of Lexus corporate about this I was informed that the new recommendation was to drain and replenish the ATF each 15,000 miles of standard usage.

WHY?

The hip bone is connected to the leg bone!

Let's assume that I am correct and my RX300 transaxle quickly shifts into O/D, engaging the lockup clutch. Now when I suddenly decide to accelerate the engine will respond to my gas pedal depression INSTANTLY. The O/D lockup clutch is clearly not designed to withstand strong engine torque, nor is likely the 4th, O/D, clutches within the transaxle.

So the transaxle must now be downshifted into the proper gear for acceleration given the current roadspeed, and QUICKLY before the engine starts delivering a really serious level of torque.

But the problem is that with the transaxle being configured for coastdown mode with the ECU having commanded LOW transaxle hydraulic pressure and with the engine at low RPM there is insufficient pressure to fully engage the new downshift clutches fully and quickly.

So the RX300 transaxle clutches SLIP for a few milliseconds during each of these "unexpected" downshifts. Slipping clutches generate lots of HEAT and frictional surface wear beyond that planned during the design phase.

Upon reading some of the posts from owners I have come to suspect that Toyota has instituted an "unspoken" warranty program for otherwise out of warranty transaxle owners with premature failures.

So what does Toyota do about these premature transaxle failures?

Basically NOTHING!

Except for future models.

Those get an e-throttle which allows the engineers to delay the onset of engine torque developement long enough for the hydraulic pressure to rise substantially and thereby fully and firmly engage the "downshift" clutches.

Why not just eliminate or delay the upshifting?

CAFE & CARB regulations.

Or

The automotive insurance industry has picked up on the fact that FWD vehicles have a significantly higher accident and injury rate during adverse weather conditions that their RWD brotheren.

Regardless it has now become pretty obvious that there is no going back insofar as eliminating coastdown upshifts are concerned.

And please remember that Toyota is now on record saying that the hesitation symptom is a result of the need to protect the drivetrain.

luxury1

These two cars are not really in the same class. Even the GS is a stretch when compared to the E. If you are strapped for cash you might be shocked at some of the repair bills you will eventually run into with the E so you probably should consider the Lex.

Taiwanese

I appreciate all the posts. We are in Southern California (SG Valley).
We stopped by Rusnak (Arcadia, CA) last night, they have 2 E320 (white and black) in stock. Both are 2003 and asking 39k or so.

Regarding warranty, according to them:
2003 + 4 year (new car) = 2007
+1 year if certified = 2008
+2 years if purchase = 2010
So 2010 is the longest that one can have


We will keep looking and report back.

DesiBaba

i would agree with everyone else on the board, ES330 ain't no match for E, granted that you can buy a brand new for the price of a used E, but personally to me they dont' feel the same. To me E is in its class by itself with the looks, handling, and the drooling i do everytime i look at the car or drive the car. Seriously i don't know how many of you feel this way, but anytime i have to go anywhere regardles its down the street to get some bread, i've a full on drool just sitting behind that STAR.
Yeah i have my share of problems, but heck there are problems with everything, including me. We as in Benz owners are perfectionist, and there's no such thing as perfect, so we all deal with it and keep ranting at this forum to make ourself feel better.
In past 6 months i have owned the E320 n now E500 n dealt with simple little stuff, like
-head rest not moving
-stereo chewing up tape
-ash tray cover loosing it hydraulic effect, so it opens up faster then normal
-climate control making more noise then it should(which nobody else but me could concur)
-Ball joint had to get replaced
-Back strut had to get replaced
-and ofcourse all the SBC recalls
But beside all this which is ofcourse coverd under warranty, i think they're minor issues, still nothing hinders my drool. As my wife thinks i'm a nut.
And before i go, please do more research on pricing as 39K for an E320 sounds very high.
I bought mine E320 for $30K with 42K on it.
and then now i bought mine E500 for $28500 with $46K on it. So don't just look for buying it from the dealer, as long as its covered under warranty whats to loose, and if it really matters buy an extended warrnaty at a fraction of the cost for what you had paid at the dealer for certified.
Just my long 2 cents.

lig

As one who had a very early '03 and had a ton of small problems with it - I would suggest that if you need to drive a car with a 3 pointed star on the hood then definitely try and get an '04.

For that matter - I you put a gun to my head and made me buy another Mercedes right now with a budget limit of 40K then I would buy a 2002 E55.

It seems as if M-B worked out most of the problems of the W211 as time has gone by (with a few possible exceptions like the trannies).

Let me caution you on the warranty thing - Make sure that electronics are covered in the extended warranty. I seem to recall that electronics were excluded on the Starmark program.

Honestly if 40K is a stretch to you - buy a Lexus. Not necessarily the ES330. Not really comparable to the W211. Consider a used GS or LS instead.

I personally don't feel diminished as a result of not having a car with a star hood ornament but if you have to have one - go ahead and scratch that itch!

GhettoMD

Few things i did when i brought my used E:
1. Before purchase, get VIN of the car you want, and go to mercedes to see if there are extensive service history.. that may smell like trouble
2. Try to get it from a distributor... I got my '05 e5004matic with pano with 4000 miles for 49k... at dealers they wanted over 55k minimum... since there's still 3.5 yrs of warranty no worries
3. In your price range, you can definitely do a 03 E500 or 04-05 E320, dont settle for the lexus.. I had an bmw 540 sport, then switched to brand new acura rl and really hated it.. had to swallow 10k loss in 9 months and traded in for this car now... dont make the mistake i made if driving pleasure is your priority
4. Try to get as many options as possible, adding on later costs a lot (in my case dealer wanted 1000 for sirius, 1000 for xenons, etc)
5. If you are into mods, u can look to add mods later when u save up money.. i later added brabus wheel and quad sport exhaust, lip spoiler... and panorama roof is a must for its uniqueness...

Good luck with your purchase taiwanese brother

Taiwanese

DesiBaba
We would want to find a certified and also purchase extend warranty. So there is no worry later.


lig
E55 will be nice for me. But this car is for 50+ year old in law. And I will make sure extended warranty covers electronics.


GhettoMD
Where to find distributor?

Taiwanese

Just want to put an end to this thread.

My relative bought a 06 E350 on 1/31/06.

Thanks for all your posts.

CE750

Damn good car! Congrats!