05 CDI or 07 Bluetec ?

[awdnyc]

I am considering the purchase of a 2005 E320 CDI or a 2007 E320 Bluetec. I have not driven either (I owned previous 2 generations of E class). From my perspective these are the pros and cons of each. 2005 CDI PRO -- lower cost -- higher MPG than 07 (?) -- no catalytic converters CON -- drive by wire brakes -- more pollution then bluetec 2007 Bluetec PRO -- 7 speed transmission -- revised braking system CON -- catalytic converter (i believe 07 has no urea, right?) -- more expensive -- lower MPG than 05 (?) I invite the fellow forum members to help me make my decision. I am inclined to buy the 05, but my main concern is the braking system.

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[TPAbnz]

I like the prospective longevity of the iron block I6. Rear side window shades were optional or not available in '07, an important feature to me.

I'm very happy with the brakes, like the feel, and note that they are used on the $440K+ SLR. Never had a problem.

Recent highway fuel economy 42.1 (measured).

[lkchris]

The '07 is a better car.

It's post facelift, which is always significant in the Mercedes world.

There has been some decontenting, however, so look for the '07 with options installed.

The V6 is a much more refined engine. Zip/zero/nada reason to think it less durable. Three-cylinder-long headgaskets usually more reliable than six-cylinder-long headgaskets, for one thing. The V6 is a noticeably quieter engine and there is ZERO diesel odor and ZERO diesel soot.

Catalytic converters are on both cars, but the V6 additionally has a diesel particulate filter. No urea on any USA W211 ever. V6 requires motor oil that's harder to find.

Window sunshades always available and afaik always an option.

There is zip/zero/nada downside to SBC brakes on the '05. Yes, both the E-class and the SLR have brakes--the simularity ends there.

Driving with the 7-speed, however, is not noticeably better than with the 5-speed, although economy may be better. MB frankly has not yet as of today perfected the interface between the V6 diesel and the 7-speed transmission, and the DTBs keep on coming.

[awdnyc]

Yes, excuse me, I meant particulate filter on the Bluetec. I know in the old days (W124 era), there were problems with particulate filters. On the Bluetec even with computer controlled particulate burning, I am a little wary of having a particulate filter on the car.

Regarding the engine. The inline six is a proven technology, but you certainly have a point Mr. Christiansen, in regard to the gaskets, although you have two gaskets which could possibly fail versus one.

I am a little confused, doesn't the 50 state 2009 Bluetec have a urea tank?

Its still a hard choice ! 07 or 05.

[MBNUT1]

Originally Posted by lkchris

The '07 is a better car.


The V6 is a much more refined engine. Zip/zero/nada reason to think it less durable. Three-cylinder-long headgaskets usually more reliable than six-cylinder-long headgaskets, for one thing. The V6 is a noticeably quieter engine and there is ZERO diesel odor and ZERO diesel soot.

I agree with this. I found the diesel noise of the previous CDI objectionable which is why I ended up with the gas car. The V6 is far less so. Still a little noisier particularly when cold but all in all not so diesel sounding.

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by awdnyc

Yes, excuse me, I meant particulate filter on the Bluetec. I know in the old days (W124 era), there were problems with particulate filters. On the Bluetec even with computer controlled particulate burning, I am a little wary of having a particulate filter on the car.

Regarding the engine. The inline six is a proven technology, but you certainly have a point Mr. Christiansen, in regard to the gaskets, although you have two gaskets which could possibly fail versus one.

I am a little confused, doesn't the 50 state 2009 Bluetec have a urea tank?

Its still a hard choice ! 07 or 05.

If you are a tree hugger buy the 2007. If you have common sense and value your wallet contents buy the 2005. I made that decision a while back and have no regrets with the CDi. The 2005 can also burn non ULSD so you can sell it to someone in China or Africa.

[Untertürkheim]

I would go with the 07 as long as it is well equipped (P2, leather, many others).

[harkgar]

Originally Posted by Untertürkheim

I would go with the 07 as long as it is well equipped (P2, leather, many others).

Do you know if MB ever fixed the jerky 7 speed software on the Bluetec?

[Untertürkheim]

Originally Posted by harkgar

Do you know if MB ever fixed the jerky 7 speed software on the Bluetec?

I thought it was addressed with a TSB like all the early 7g issues.

[Polar Bear]

FWIW I went through the same issues when I was searching for an E-class diesel. Ultimately I ended up going with a 2005 because it was the last year they offered the most equipment in the US, and had the inline 6 cylinder engine. The fact the car has a less complicated exhaust system and would run on regular diesel was originally one of the deciding factors. If I had it to do over the ULSD requirement of the 2007 would not be a deciding factor.

I do not know very much in regards to the 2007's emissions system and the reliability of it, but you are correct the CDI is simpler.

I was able to locate a 2005 with active bi-xenon, electronic trunk closer, Keyless-Go, rear sunshades, DVD Navigation, full leather, dynamic seating (no longer available on US diesels), and ventilated seating (no longer available on US diesels). I have added SDARS and MHI/Bluetooth phone system.

I would recommend spending time in both to see which one you like. I personally really enjoy the additional options my car has which made it worth the while to locate it and pay more for it, but if you don't care about gadgets/features, I would probably recommend a 2007 due to the warranty and it will probably have lower miles. The 2007s will be more refined, and quieter. I prefer the 722.6 5-speed transmission due to its reliability - my ex-girlfriend had a 2006 CLK350 and the 722.9 transmission failed with less than 15k miles with downshifting issues (did not leave car stranded, but still needed to be removed and serviced). I have heard of several others issues with the 722.9 as well. The 7-speed IS a smooth transmission, generally, in the gas cars, but the diesels have had some issues as others have noted.

The CDI starts good in the coldest weather we have in this area - which is around 10°F and it only preglows for about 2-3 seconds and idles like it is a 70° day. The heater gets warm in about 2 minutes due to the heater booster.

If you find an early model 2005 it will have the "clamshell" console instead of the sliding console cover. It's a matter of personal preference as to which one you like best. Also, if it is an early 2005, it will have the residual heating feature (REST) to run your heater for 30 minutes while you are gone in a store, etc. Mid to late 2005s and later do not have this.

I did have to have the EGR valve replaced on my car due to it surging at a constant throttle. There is a DTB that is related to it and it was replaced and the ECU was flashed/SCN coded to current MB software. This fixed the issue and the car is smoother than it has ever been. I may just be me, but it seems since this DTB was preformed that the car does not accelerate quite as good, but the difference is not much and the economy has not changed.

Also, I had a glow plug replaced. The preglow indicator stayed on for a longer duration and the check engine light illuminated. From what the dealer said this was common and knew exactly what to do without even looking at it. They replaced them very reasonably and it has been great since. After looking at the glow plugs, they can be very easily removed and I think cost $30/ea at the dealer. If you enjoy DIY I don't see any reason you could not change then out in probably less than an hour, with part of that time just removing and reinstalling the engine covers.

The EGR and glow plugs were repaired at about 36k miles.

On a recent trip, I was able to get 860 miles on one tank of fuel, and averaged 41.6MPG over 400 miles, according to the I/C.

Also, in regards to the braking system, I haven't experienced any negative performance from the braking system, and it does come with a 10 year unlimited mileage warranty from Mercedes. There have been some issues reported with it but I think as long as the vehicle has had all campaigns performed and software updates, you can expect it not to give any problems. The brakes feel as good or better than any other car I've owned.

[awdnyc]

Great information, thank you.

[MBNUT1]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Also, in regards to the braking system, I haven't experienced any negative performance from the braking system, and it does come with a 10 year unlimited mileage warranty from Mercedes. There have been some issues reported with it but I think as long as the vehicle has had all campaigns performed and software updates, you can expect it not to give any problems. The brakes feel as good or better than any other car I've owned.

I agree with this as well. What also is interesting is I bought my 06 from a guy in the office who bought an Acura RL. He then replaced the RL with an 08E3504matic and he seemed to have difficulty modulating the 08's brakes.

[nkole]

The 2009 E320 Bluetech (nor any other year) is not a 50 state car.

[awdnyc]

I am interested in purchasing a pre-owned CDI or Bluetec (with at least 20,000 miles on the clock), to register in New York state, so the limitations are not an issue.

[lkchris]

Originally Posted by awdnyc

I am a little confused, doesn't the 50 state 2009 Bluetec have a urea tank?

There is no 50-state W211. Just ML, GL, and R.

[lkchris]

Originally Posted by harkgar

Do you know if MB ever fixed the jerky 7 speed software on the Bluetec?

Not yet.

It's been addressed by several service bulletins, none of which has cured it.

[lkchris]

Originally Posted by MBNUT1

I agree with this as well. What also is interesting is I bought my 06 from a guy in the office who bought an Acura RL. He then replaced the RL with an 08E3504matic and he seemed to have difficulty modulating the 08's brakes.

Very interesting. I'll have to drive a facelift W211, then.

Our SBC-equipped '06 has fabulous brake pedal feel--especially compared to the POS feel in my GL.

[pinebaron]

Originally Posted by harkgar

Do you know if MB ever fixed the jerky 7 speed software on the Bluetec?

Its been smooth since day one; never experienced any jerkyness. It must have been fixed prior to my purchase.

[stickygreen]

I was able to locate a 2005 with active bi-xenon, electronic trunk closer, Keyless-Go, rear sunshades, DVD Navigation, full leather, dynamic seating (no longer available on US diesels), and ventilated seating (no longer available on US diesels). I have added SDARS and MHI/Bluetooth phone system.

#1 reason to go with an '05 - available options. We were lucky enough to find one with every option except parktronic, pano roof, and trunk closer, and I absolutely love the DD aircooled seats. I am rather pissed that MBUSA decided not to make ventilated seats available on the GL320's. If you can find a designo model, jump on it as the nappa leather REALLY improves the overall experience IMO.

#2 reason for an '05 - The inline 6 motor has been flawless for us over the first 93k miles. The new v6 should prove to be a great motor, and we are taking a chance on it with a new '09 GL Bluetec. But it I had a choice, I'd rather have a GL320 with the straight six.

#1 reason for a Bluetec - it looks better, except for that weird-looking steering wheel

#2 reason for a Bluetec - no diesel smell or soot. Our '05 will let out a little plume of smoke under full throttle, and the vicinity of the car will stink like burning diesel when idling. This is supposed to be nonexistant with the new models.

#3 reason for a Bluetec - 7g transmission, assuming all the kinks have been worked out.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by stickygreen

#2 reason for a Bluetec - no diesel smell or soot. Our '05 will let out a little plume of smoke under full throttle, and the vicinity of the car will stink like burning diesel when idling. This is supposed to be nonexistant with the new models.
.

I agree with that - the CDI has a smell, but it's not your old school diesel smell. It smells "treated" and the jury is out if it smells worse or better than the old ones. It burns my nose in high quantities (in a garage, for example, when started cold) so I back out of the garage quickly. I don't really notice it when going through a drive-thru, however.

I have not noticed mine smoke unless I have driven it very easy for many many miles. Then, at full throttle, you can perhaps see some smoke if there are headlights behind me at night. Otherwise, it seems to be very clean burning.

Finding a highly optioned designo CDI would be next to impossible on the used market. My local dealer had one when it was new (special order), but it was a base model with no lighting package, Keyless-Go, or anything to speak of. I would LOVE to have a loaded designo model.

[stickygreen]

Why would anybody special order a designo vehicle, and then leave all the options off it? I have only seen two other designo CDI's - both on ebay and both "designo Mocha Black". They were pretty well optioned, but IIRC were '06 models and therefore didn't have ventilated or DD seats.

Just dug up a couple old pics of our CDI, when we first got it with exactly 7500 miles, per CA law:

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by stickygreen

Why would anybody special order a designo vehicle, and then leave all the options off it? I have only seen two other designo CDI's - both on ebay and both "designo Mocha Black". They were pretty well optioned, but IIRC were '06 models and therefore didn't have ventilated or DD seats.

Just dug up a couple old pics of our CDI, when we first got it with exactly 7500 miles, per CA law:

Very nice! I think this one was an 06 - but my dealer NEVER orders well optioned cars. Many CLS500s without lighting package - and NEVER an E-Class with Keyless-Go or lighting. I think I have seen one P2 optioned car there in an E-Class.

[DerekACS]

Originally Posted by pinebaron

Its been smooth since day one; never experienced any jerkyness. It must have been fixed prior to my purchase.

After 25,000 kms with my Bluetec, I can report a similar flawless experience with the 7 speed transmission.
After test driving both the 2006 E320 CDI and the E320 Bluetec, my observations are:

the Bluetec's brakes feel better, the steering is more direct, the engine is quieter, the transmission is smoother and there is no diesel smell ever !

There is one more advantage for the V6 over the I6 engine; the V6 weighs 70 kg (or 154 lbs.) less than the I6. This weight reduction over the front wheels improves the front/rear weight distribution.

[Untertürkheim]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I would LOVE to have a loaded designo model.

As would I. I had ordered a 2009 E320 Bluetec, P2, all options, designo espresso edition (I would have strongly considered graphite if the interior leather was still green instead of boring corteccia (gray)), and my order was rejected because designo packages are no longer available for MY2009, only designo paint. This is so stupid considering the best part of the designo package is the interior, and the Bluetec is already the most limited with interior choices (no 2-tone).

[MBNUT1]

Originally Posted by lkchris

Very interesting. I'll have to drive a facelift W211, then.

Our SBC-equipped '06 has fabulous brake pedal feel--especially compared to the POS feel in my GL.

So does mine. I have never been able to understand SBC brake feel complaints mine are perfect. Maybe by '06 they had tweeked them to perfection. I'm almost afraid to replace the pads for fear of losing some of the perfection. I also like the knowledge of how smart they are in terms of braking in turns etc and the rain feature.