cmriv

You are mistaken, and i'm no noob hommie.... I'm looking out for ya however do as you please...

and i don't think chains are 600 dollars. I think they are 2 summin but aren't you doing all the work yourself??? OR is your mechanic???

raverx3m

I don't buy parts that need not to be replaced... just like oil pump that I saved some money on instead of replacing a good working oil pump I actually checked it and found that its not damaged




same with timing chain. I was asking for the procedure to check for timing chain stretch not a contest who has bigger *****... or can afford to throw parts at the engine without checking if they really need to be replaced or not




from what I found the timing chain stretch is indicated by the timing off on both heads
and balance shaft issue timing is off only on one head and not the other.




I just need to confirm it.
the chain doesn't look worn or damaged but I need a way to check it before I replace a good working part possibly

kajtek1

With cmriv it is bigger ball contest most of the time, but can't deny his professional experience.
When professionals are always motivated to talk you into spending more money, you can't deny the fact that the sprocket on the picture is GONE gone.
If you think that chain running over that piece of junk could be as good as new, all I can say is "good luck"

raverx3m

same can be said about oil pump...
But its not damaged.
So does anyone know how to inspect the timing chain before spending money on replacing it?
Theres no metal chunks in the oil. It didnt get to that point.

cmriv

I'm just going to bite my tongue in regards to the last three post's. However i'm wondering why someone who's for sure certain the chain isn't bad keeps worrying about how to check if it's good or not?

way to check if chain is damaged, remove chain and compare length to a new chain

raverx3m

I'm not being a dick I just want to learn how to check the chain. for future reference..


Hondas use timing belt. so I never had to do that.


I'm **** when it comes to checking parts as I used to just throw parts at the motor in hopes it fix the problem but it usually didn't..
then I learned its better to check for wear and damage before spending 200-300 on a part that is not damaged.


I already saved the cost of oil pump and oil pump chain
and pulse wheels. also sounds fishy.
the guy in Mercedes video says. replace them because the tabs might "sheer off" during reinstallation...???
whats preventing the tabs from sheering off on new pulse wheel during initial installation. theres no moving parts on the wheel.




it would defeat the purpose of saving money on not buying a new chain lol


I never said that chain is for certain isn't bad.
I said I want to check it before spending 200 bucks on a new chain.






its like replacing water pump, oil pump tensioner spark plugs and wires and timing belt... once I learned how to check those for wear I saved a lot of money by checking and reusing old ones that had no wear on them at all
turns out 3 out of 5 used oil pumps I had were actually almost new so I used them for my last 3 motor builds and it worked just fine.

cmriv

like i want to help you broseph but everything i said previously that should be replaced, per wis instructions actually, you keep asking on how to check if it's damaged or not, couple that with the fact you are watching videos that say to replace certain items and still..... Since you don't want to follow instructions or peoples advice very few people on here are going to chime in. I pronounced my input, if it were my car since all of that stuff is visible and relatively inexpensive i would replace it for my piece of mind and also because it's highly recommended.

raverx3m

again I'm not trying to question your skills as a mechanic
all I asked is how to check the chain for wear and stretch and so far got nothing.
I understand these cars are made for people who can afford to fork out more than the car is worth for maintenance but eventually they get sold to people who cant afford an 8000 dollar repair on a 6000 dollar car


WIS instructions assume that customer has endless wallet
I don't.
WIS instructions also overcompensates to cover tech's *** if customer comes back. I don't have to worry about that


I already saved over 300 bucks by actually inspecting the oil pump and chain for wear. now I don't have to replace a good working oil pump which according to WIS has to be replaced.
the timing is on point. and the only reason I would replace the chain is because of the wear from the sliding rails. which is minimal also. but since nobody knows how to check the chain for wear and damage I have no other choice but to replace a possibly good chain...


the metal shavings from the worn balance shaft gear is nothing more serious than metal shavings you get from engine break in before first oil change.
the sprocket is not missing any large chunks of metal its only worn out which means small metal particles not chunks that can damage oil pump or chain or cylinder walls


gotta use common sense sometimes not just follow instructions blindly

cmriv

You'll find out if chain is stretched when you install that chain tension-er and rotate engine a few times, of course after you've re-assembled everything....

you can feed a horse water, but you can't force it to drink.... GL

kajtek1

Man, where is common sense here?
You see badly worn sprocket and you question if the chain working on it is worn.
Tomorrow you will do brakes and you ask us if you can reuse brake pads that come with this disc.



FYI chain stretch test if to determinate normal wear on evenly wearing elements.
There is nothing normal in your sprocket wear.

kajtek1

The whole word exchange reminds me a joke how traveling executive stop for the night in desert motel.
After getting into the room, he calls the manager on house phone.
"I've gotta pee in the sink"
manager answers.
"Go ahead"

raverx3m

lol I beg the differ


it is a normal occurrence on m272 motor


ok explain to me how a new engine during break in would be different from this sprocket wearing?

cmriv

During break in, engine timing is dead on and it isn't incorrect..... A worn sprocket engine time is off-cel....

i'm just surprised a mechanic who is doing the repairs themselves is griping about a 200$ wearable part. In theory yes, don't replace things that aren't bad. But in reality m272 chains stretching is pretty common, along with the m642. Mercedes has been known to have shytty chains. It's nothing new, pretty common actually. It's your wallet though so i can't banter.

raverx3m

well I'm not rich. and have a family and I can spend the 200 to buy something for my kid instead... I don't have extra money laying around.


that's all I was asking for if you said that in first post that would have been clear to replace the chain...


because some pages say the chains usually last for the life of the engine( at least in newer Mercedes)
so I was asking how good the chain was if it really lasts for life of the engine
I already ordered new chain. just didn't want to spend extra money or do extra work if it wasn't necessary...
waiting for parts now.
will make pictures and walkthrough as I'm putting everything back together.


the hard part was taking the fn motor out..
I build one or two Honda motors a year as a hobby and sell them with a car.
I just finished rebuilding a type-r motor after dropped valve rewelded the quench area and cut it again to even it out and balanced the pistons and rods within 1 gram I made my own balancing stand and then confirmed at machine shop ... everyone said I'm too **** and no need to balance them that precise. but car made 201whp without even trying when normally that motor makes around 180-190whp on a jdm type-r which this wasn't.
my OCD paid off. ( but I reused many parts that I was about to throw away)
so I'm not halfassing the rebuild I'm just saving some cash and time where possible

cmriv

my first initial post states replace chain.
not because you or I have extra money laying around.
not because it isn't bad.
not because it's time consuming.
simply because it takes 10 minutes to do and ALSO because if in fact it is stretched you'll be doing work x2.... which isn't cost or time effective. Yes, you could spend that money on your kid, however if you spend that money on a new chain, that's less time you'll be in the garage and more time spent with the kid.....

glad you are installing new chain, AMEN!!!!!



you said it yourself your chain tensioner was pretty bad, so in theory wouldn't the chain be iffy too? regardless you'll be a happy camper when you don't have to replace it after shaft repair!

raverx3m

where does one look up for reference for bolts


it seems my organizing had no effect since I forgot where the bolts go anyway from each tiny bin that I put them into.


usually I go to Honda dealer page and it lists every single nut and bolt and where it came from how long and what size. but I have found no reference to bolts and nuts on online Mercedes dealer

cmriv

Bolts for front cover or???

raverx3m

everything.
engine frame etc just for reference


see when I go to Honda dealer
they list every single bold and also list the size and length
very easy to keep track of bolts


95701-06014-08 026 007 BOLT, FLANGE (6X14)


I assumed that it would be same for Mercedes too when I go to online dealer

but apparently its not

raverx3m

I need few bolts and cant find them on any diagram also


I'm missing exhaust manifold stud
and I need to replace few other stripped bolts but they are nowhere listed

cmriv

EPC would be your best option for sourcing bolt information. It tells you every dimension and where it goes....

raverx3m

damn well they sure know how to nickel and dime people lol

cetialpha5

That just started this year. It used to be free. And Startek used to be under $20 a day instead of the $60 a day it is now.

raverx3m

cant figure out the timing
replaced the timing chain. replaced all 4 chain rails and balance shaft all installed


the marks on right head align the balance shaft mark aligns
but the left cam gear marks are just barely off


I tried so many ways and not sure what the issue is.
how precise are those marks should be?
I only took off the exhaust cam gear on left side


it doesn't seem like its a tooth off on the timing chain




left cam gears




right cam gears

raverx3m

what are the copper links for on the timing chain?


went to check again today thinking maybe I put the exhaust cam gear a tooth off but it seems like the cam gears on left head are literally half a tooth off


have no idea how this happened
with Honda timing belt its usually incorrect timing belt routing sequence and tensioner but this one is spring tensioner.

cmriv

Did you rotate engine backwards when you installed new chain tensioner? put those cylinder head covers back on. install cam magnets, just use 1 e-8, u dont need to tighten the thing down. after youve installed cam magnets re-take photo of timing holes...