BG Fuel treament additive

[Raymond Lee]

Anybody here use BG product on gas model or additive for diesel engines? I am hearing that the product really works and MBZ dealer will carry it soon. BMW dealer is already carrying it.

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[ghstudio]

Modern car engines (and transmissions) are designed to run without additives....in fact most manuals tell you specifically not to use additives. Irrespective of that warning, the additive market thrives on promises, advertising and word of mouth which is based on advertising and promises.

Car dealers love additives....because they are additive to their bottom line. Most carry them and recommend them, irrespective of the manual...and every one says that they have had wonder results by using them. Yup, their profit went up wonderfully.

I have never used additives in a car engine or transmission....I even made a jeep dealer drain and refill my engine oil because he had added an additive that I didn't request....and I pointed out the statement in the jeep manual that said "do not use additives".

I am sure others will disagree with me and eloquently promote Amsoil and most other wonder lubricants/additives. This could be an interesting thread

[CorvetteOJ]

Originally Posted by ghstudio

Modern car engines (and transmissions) are designed to run without additives....in fact most manuals tell you specifically not to use additives. Irrespective of that warning, the additive market thrives on promises, advertising and word of mouth which is based on advertising and promises.

Car dealers love additives....because they are additive to their bottom line. Most carry them and recommend them, irrespective of the manual...and every one says that they have had wonder results by using them. Yup, their profit went up wonderfully.

I have never used additives in a car engine or transmission....I even made a jeep dealer drain and refill my engine oil because he had added an additive that I didn't request....and I pointed out the statement in the jeep manual that said "do not use additives".

I am sure others will disagree with me and eloquently promote Amsoil and most other wonder lubricants/additives. This could be an interesting thread

I AGREE 100% with not adding anything to the crankcase. I have never, and will never add anything to the crankcase. However, I am a strong advocate of using Chevron Techron Fuel Cleaner Additive to the gas tank every 90 days. It definitely makes a difference in keeping the fuel system, transfer valves and fuel level floats free of chemical build up. The fuel additive buildup can cause any or all of these to stick. As a result, you get irratic reading of the fuel gauge, for example.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by ghstudio

Modern car engines (and transmissions) are designed to run without additives....in fact most manuals tell you specifically not to use additives. Irrespective of that warning, the additive market thrives on promises, advertising and word of mouth which is based on advertising and promises.

Car dealers love additives....because they are additive to their bottom line. Most carry them and recommend them, irrespective of the manual...and every one says that they have had wonder results by using them. Yup, their profit went up wonderfully.

I have never used additives in a car engine or transmission....I even made a jeep dealer drain and refill my engine oil because he had added an additive that I didn't request....and I pointed out the statement in the jeep manual that said "do not use additives".



I am sure others will disagree with me and eloquently promote Amsoil and most other wonder lubricants/additives. This could be an interesting thread

I think as far as lubricant additives in the engine, rear end, transfer case or transmission, I agree, but fuel in the U.S. is not only of lessor quality than that dispensed in the E.U., it is 10%+ ethanol. I generally use a diesel additive in my tank for added lubricity, as the U.S. diesel suffers from less than optimal amounts. It can vary so much from fuel companies and it is a cheap addition. Maybe the gasoline engine owner's manual states to avoid additives, but the diesel just needs to meet ULSD requirements, even up to 5% biodiesel is allowed, and that's the king of lubricity additions as far as diesel is concerned.

[Raymond Lee]

Thank you guys for your thoughts. I'll be very interested to hear more thoughts from more people.

[listerone]

No fuel or oil additives for me,thanks.I use high quality oil and fuel and that's always done well by me.

[MB500]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

I think as far as lubricant additives in the engine, rear end, transfer case or transmission, I agree, but fuel in the U.S. is not only of lessor quality than that dispensed in the E.U., it is 10%+ ethanol. I generally use a diesel additive in my tank for added lubricity, as the U.S. diesel suffers from less than optimal amounts. It can vary so much from fuel companies and it is a cheap addition. Maybe the gasoline engine owner's manual states to avoid additives, but the diesel just needs to meet ULSD requirements, even up to 5% biodiesel is allowed, and that's the king of lubricity additions as far as diesel is concerned.

What diesel additives have you been using? Any recommendation?

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by MB500

What diesel additives have you been using? Any recommendation?

Stanadyne Lubricity Formula has given the best results in terms of fuel economy, quiet operation and power. There are many out there, some score high and some score low, in terms of lubricity.

This exam was done in '07, when ULSD first started to affect older diesel vehicles not designed for low sulphur, but the fuel is the same today.

http://www.johnfjensen.com/Diesel_fu...itive_test.pdf

[ImInPA]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

Stanadyne Lubricity Formula has given the best results in terms of fuel economy, quiet operation and power. There are many out there, some score high and some score low, in terms of lubricity.

This exam was done in '07, when ULSD first started to affect older diesel vehicles not designed for low sulphur, but the fuel is the same today.

http://www.johnfjensen.com/Diesel_fu...itive_test.pdf

The issue with older diesels and ULSD when it first came out had nothing to do with lubicity. That was just urban legend. What did happen is that the ULSD formulation and additive packages were literally "cleaning" the gunk out of older systems so effectively that many leaks were happening around seals. There has never been a lubricity issue with ULSD. ULSD has been required in Europe for at least 15 years now.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by ImInPA

The issue with older diesels and ULSD when it first came out had nothing to do with lubicity. That was just urban legend. What did happen is that the ULSD formulation and additive packages were literally "cleaning" the gunk out of older systems so effectively that many leaks were happening around seals. There has never been a lubricity issue with ULSD. ULSD has been required in Europe for at least 15 years now.

Yes, in the EU, it has been there quite some time, but their rates are still higher, as is the cetane levels. Their vehicles also have higher allowed emissions; too many differences to list compared to the U.S. My dealership, as well as the independent shops all recommend some type of additive, mainly because of the dry fuel causing high pressure issues with respect to the injectors and pump seals and especially biodiesel if it is available. Maybe in the colder climates, where gelling is an issue, additives are not recommended; I wouldn't know, I'm in a moderate climate, it rarely dips below 40F here.

[MB500]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

Stanadyne Lubricity Formula has given the best results in terms of fuel economy, quiet operation and power. There are many out there, some score high and some score low, in terms of lubricity.

This exam was done in '07, when ULSD first started to affect older diesel vehicles not designed for low sulphur, but the fuel is the same today.

http://www.johnfjensen.com/Diesel_fu...itive_test.pdf

Thank you. So, do you add this stuff every time you fill up the tank? How much MPG improvement have you seen? Is it worth the additional cost?

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by MB500

Thank you. So, do you add this stuff every time you fill up the tank? How much MPG improvement have you seen? Is it worth the additional cost?

I use 2 oz before each fill up. Hard to go by the MPG indicator in the car, it's grossly inaccurate. Fuelly shows me > 33mpg 50/50 city/highway, so I cannot complain. The cost is $1 per tank (30 gals, we are at 21 gals I believe), so not too bad. I'm really using it for the cleaning and cetane properties.

[MB500]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

I use 2 oz before each fill up. Hard to go by the MPG indicator in the car, it's grossly inaccurate. Fuelly shows me > 33mpg 50/50 city/highway, so I cannot complain. The cost is $1 per tank (30 gals, we are at 21 gals I believe), so not too bad. I'm really using it for the cleaning and cetane properties.

I am going to try this stuff. Is there a good place to purchase it (price wise)?

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by MB500

I am going to try this stuff. Is there a good place to purchase it (price wise)?

I get mine via Amazon.com

Amazon

Amazon

[BenzV12]

I hope these are not snake oils

For friends who are in the marlet for additives , you can check a site dedicated to oil tips and additives .

www.bobistheoilguy.com or something like this .I have seen many different theories about additives so this could cause utter confusion because some guys say additives are not necessary regardless of fuel , some others say it would help extend your engine life

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by BenzV12

I hope these are not snake oils

For friends who are in the marlet for additives , you can check a site dedicated to oil tips and additives .

www.bobistheoilguy.com or something like this .I have seen many different theories about additives so this could cause utter confusion because some guys say additives are not necessary regardless of fuel , some others say it would help extend your engine life

Possibly, yes, I've heard of this bob/boob guy, but you can tell when it (stanadyne) is in the tank and when it's not, so it must be doing something. It's cheap enough to try, hell anyone with a $60k car can afford $1 per tank to try something for a few tanks, and make up their own mind. I've been using it in many diesels (mostly VW), as long as it's ULSD tested and approved, it won't hurt, not even the wallet. Also, this product doesn't make astronomical claims of a silver bullet. They claim it as an additive with benefits for power and longevity, the 4100 lb E350 is not going to become a rocket with the stuff.

Folks have to take into account their location, cold vs warm, as well as driving style, etc. I know Chevron tested Techron D a few years ago in some markets, and it did work to keep engines clean, but was hard on the seals. If I had bio available here in 5%, I would not use an additive. Peace of mind for me, and I do trust my independent mechanic.

[ImInPA]

Originally Posted by thekurgan

Yes, in the EU, it has been there quite some time, but their rates are still higher, as is the cetane levels. Their vehicles also have higher allowed emissions; too many differences to list compared to the U.S. My dealership, as well as the independent shops all recommend some type of additive, mainly because of the dry fuel causing high pressure issues with respect to the injectors and pump seals and especially biodiesel if it is available. Maybe in the colder climates, where gelling is an issue, additives are not recommended; I wouldn't know, I'm in a moderate climate, it rarely dips below 40F here.

With all due respect, the EU pollution requirements rival California's. I am not sure where you are getting your "facts" from. In Europe, 50 cetane is quite common. Lubricity just was not an issue with ULSD diesel. There simply was no "dry" fuel. The materials the seals were made from in some older diesels had issues when USLD was first introduced in the US. This is what cause the "lubricity" scares that most diesel owners now recognize as not factual. I have never had diesel gelling problems. Now I have not been to northern canada, but, I have experienced -20 F and had no problems in startup or fuel delivery. I use Power Service cetane booster on a regular basis. I see and additional 2-3 mpg with the use of this product on the highway. Is it necessary? No. But I do it anyhow.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by ImInPA

With all due respect, the EU pollution requirements rival California's. I am not sure where you are getting your "facts" from. In Europe, 50 cetane is quite common. Lubricity just was not an issue with ULSD diesel. There simply was no "dry" fuel. The materials the seals were made from in some older diesels had issues when USLD was first introduced in the US. This is what cause the "lubricity" scares that most diesel owners now recognize as not factual. I have never had diesel gelling problems. Now I have not been to northern canada, but, I have experienced -20 F and had no problems in startup or fuel delivery. I use Power Service cetane booster on a regular basis. I see and additional 2-3 mpg with the use of this product on the highway. Is it necessary? No. But I do it anyhow.

"Reduction of sulfur emissions
In the past, diesel fuel contained higher quantities of sulfur. European emission standards and preferential taxation have forced oil refineries to dramatically reduce the level of sulfur in diesel fuels. In the United States, more stringent emission standards have been adopted with the transition to ULSD starting in 2006, and becoming mandatory on June 1, 2010 (see also diesel exhaust). U.S. diesel fuel typically also has a lower cetane number (a measure of ignition quality) than European diesel, resulting in worse cold weather performance and some increase in emissions.[22]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_fuel


http://www.dieselnet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127

This is my first Mercedes diesel, coming from VW diesel, where my fuel pumps were replaced several times, injectors, etc. I don't mind spending $1 per tank for extra lubricity and cetane, regardless of the mpg. I also get my diesel from the truck stop on the way to my office, as there is only 1 diesel pump near my neighborhood, which isn't a good sign during the winter months.

[Raymond Lee]

"The lower lubricity of newly formulated diesel fuel will especially impact Volkswagen. More than 60 percent of its car sales are diesels. Its TDI engines depend on the sulfur to lubricate the fuel pump and injectors. With the low lubricity fuel, these engines will need a fuel conditioner.
The newer CDI (Common-Rail Direct Injection) diesel engines such as the E320 CDI Mercedes-Benz introduced this year has full electronic injection, something considered technically impossible a few years ago. Fuel is injected at 23,000 PSI directly through the solenoid injector valves. The engine then relies on the heat of the highly compressed intake air to ignite the fuel. The E320 engine is cleaner, quieter and more powerful than mechanically injected diesels. Mercedes believes that when ultra low-sulfur diesel becomes available, the CDI engine will meet emission standards in all 50 states. You can learn more about the E320 engine at www.mbusa.com and www.Germancarfans.com."
Just passing on what I read.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by Raymond Lee

"The lower lubricity of newly formulated diesel fuel will especially impact Volkswagen. More than 60 percent of its car sales are diesels. Its TDI engines depend on the sulfur to lubricate the fuel pump and injectors. With the low lubricity fuel, these engines will need a fuel conditioner.
The newer CDI (Common-Rail Direct Injection) diesel engines such as the E320 CDI Mercedes-Benz introduced this year has full electronic injection, something considered technically impossible a few years ago. Fuel is injected at 23,000 PSI directly through the solenoid injector valves. The engine then relies on the heat of the highly compressed intake air to ignite the fuel. The E320 engine is cleaner, quieter and more powerful than mechanically injected diesels. Mercedes believes that when ultra low-sulfur diesel becomes available, the CDI engine will meet emission standards in all 50 states. You can learn more about the E320 engine at www.mbusa.com and www.Germancarfans.com."
Just passing on what I read.

VW TDI is a high pressure direct injected engine as well. This is good information, I will keep it on hand. We went through 3 pumps and finally, after using an additive, the car went without any fuel-related issues until non-engine related issues forced us to sell it.

[Raymond Lee]

thekurgan
It looks like what I read and posted here is correct information based on your experience with VW TDI engine. If BlueTec engines does not have the kind of problem, it would be really good information for all of us. Your input could be valuable information for many others.

[ImInPA]

I had a 2004 passat TDI diesel and I never had a problem with ULSD. I bought it new and drove it nearly 200k absolutely trouble free miles. VW makes a great diesel engine. As good as any. I guess one can always get a bad one. The original Rabbit Diesel reached near cult status with a reputation for bulletproof durability.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by ImInPA

I had a 2004 passat TDI diesel and I never had a problem with ULSD. I bought it new and drove it nearly 200k absolutely trouble free miles. VW makes a great diesel engine. As good as any. I guess one can always get a bad one. The original Rabbit Diesel reached near cult status with a reputation for bulletproof durability.

Agree. We were surprised, and VW handled the issue nicely for us. We just chalked it up to a car that had a black cat cross in front of it; thing got 45+ mpg on the highway, really appreciated that $ savings.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by Raymond Lee

thekurgan
It looks like what I read and posted here is correct information based on your experience with VW TDI engine. If BlueTec engines does not have the kind of problem, it would be really good information for all of us. Your input could be valuable information for many others.

Yes, I hadn't had any experience with the 320 CDI. I have rented plenty of 4 cylinder turbodiesels from Mercedes-Benz over the years while in Italy; my last trip was my deciding factor on this E class bluetec.

[Raymond Lee]

thekurgan
I keep reading good thing about BG 244 for diesel. If you hear anything about it, please do share the information. I am new to this and just trying to learn so that I can keep this car in good condition. The product is not available at retail store, only through dealer type.