ats-1

Thanks in advance for reading this and giving feedback...

• 2014 E350 Sport
• 6 months into lease
• 8k miles on car (which I love)

So here are the series of events that are going down...

• Doing 60, dashboard lights up like a xmas tree with all possible warning lights, ABS, Traction, etc. Litteraly every light possible. Lost speedo & Power Steering (assisted steering or whatever it is). Screen also had three rotating messages which read. Pre-Safe Functions not working, DO NOT change gears, Bring to dealership.
• I bring to dealer, they give me loaner
• Get a call to pick up, dealer said it was some electical sensor they replaced.
• 10 miles down the road same thing happend.
• Drop of car for second time and was obvioulsy like wtf...
• Dealer just left me voicemail asking permission for his Shop Manager to "take car home tonight so he can diagnose and capture data on longer trip"
• I called back and got his voicemail and said it was ok, although i think its a little *** odd.

SO... Due to the ABS issue and the loss of steering should i be sending letter to manufactuer at this point to start the Lemon Law process? I live in MD and i copied some verbiage below that is from MD DMV.

• A brake or steering failure that was not corrected after the first repair attempt, and that causes the vehicle to fail Maryland's safety inspection; or
• Any one problem that substantially impairs the use and market value of the vehicle that was not corrected in four repair attempts; or
• Any number of problems that substantially impair the use and market value of the vehicle that have caused it to be out of service for a cumulative total of 30 or more days

THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK!

Mbenz260e

I would say it wouldn't hurt bring it up to the dealer and MBUSA, they may take care of you before it gets that far. Which dealership if you don't mind me asking?

usamuscle

It never hurts to start the process.
I started my lemon law case on my 2004 F150 about 5 months before I was awarded all my money back . So it cant hurt

Arrie

The only question here is what it means to fail the MD safety inspection. I would guess if you take it to the safety inspection with all the warnings it would fail with flying colors.

The dealer has it and I guess is seriously trying to fix it on the second attempt. If they don't then I would just ask the dealer if I have to go thru the lemon law process to have the car replaced or would they just replace it without the process.

If the law is what you post they know they are at the short end of the stick if it goes to the courts.

Live Oak

That's a huge safety issue. I'll bet the air bags are dead, too.

Take a camera in the car with you --- photograph the dash.

The dealer counts on your patience. Don't do that --- delay can cost you your rights.

If it fails again, tell the dealer you will file in 2 days. He'll jump on it and replace the car, I'd bet.

PeterUbers

I just took delivery of my new e550 last week after a full 100% buyback by Mbusa. Read my sig and follow my saga.

My problem was not nearly as serious as the op's problems. I strongly advise that you get Mbusa involved and ask for a new car right now. They do not want a lemon branded Benz, they would much rather get u In A brand new replacement or give your total cash back without depreciation. You need to clearly articulate the safety issue here and that if anything were to happen to you or a family member driving this car you will come directly after Benz for keeping you in an unsafe car. Don't push the lemon law unless they back u into a corner. Be patient you have some time, don't get angry or ballistic with Mbusa on the phone ... That will get u nowhere

Trust me, I just finished my 6 month struggle with Mbusa. I have a brand new e550 to show for it and Mbusa took the hit for an accident I was in on my previously 2014 e550 that they bought back

ghstudio

Personally, I wouldn't drive the car, they had their opportunity to fix it and returned an unsafe car to you which was unacceptable.

I would talk to the GM and MB HQ before the end of the day...ask for a loaner until they find a replacement car .....and I would lemon law that car today to protect myself legally.

Your life is not worth the risk of it happening again.

drsaab

It is worth trying, but I do not see the car meeting any of these lemon law requirements.

A brake or steering failure that was not corrected after the first repair attempt, and that causes the vehicle to fail Maryland's safety inspection; or

car still has brakes and steering, just not power steering and abs. Depends what MD inspection defines as minimum requirement

Any one problem that substantially impairs the use and market value of the vehicle that was not corrected in four repair attempts; or

It has been 2 attempts so far

Any number of problems that substantially impair the use and market value of the vehicle that have caused it to be out of service for a cumulative total of 30 or more days

this has not happened yet as well.

ats-1

Thanks for the feedback thus far...

Still on the fence with regards to my next move...

So I imagine they will call me within a day or so with the "hey, we figured it out, you're all good" message....

Part of me is OK with that. The service at the dealer is actually outstanding, and I know they are trying. But the other part of me feels like i will always be wondering if the car is safe, etc.

So if i put my foot down and demand replacement, will they laugh in my face? I'm thinking they will....

ghstudio

They won't laugh in your face if you tell them that if it happens again, you will demand replacement.

Since they don't know the cause of the problem, they have no way to assure you that the air bags are not effected.....so I don't agree with the poster who suggests you can't lemon law the car. If all lights are flashing and you are getting messages like don't shift the car...that's time for panic. Make sure you take a picture of the problem, should it happen again...use your phone or put a camera in the car, just in case. A picture says 1000 words and is worth about $60,000 in this case.

JALLEN4

I had a similar problem with a 2012 E350 recently. Mostly the symptoms appeared at start-up but occasionally while driving. It took three repair trips but was eventually repaired when they found a cracked fuse block.

The "Lemon Law" process is with the manufacturer and the dealer will be left out of the loop, other than attempting to make the repairs. I have seen occasions where the dealer returned the car, took back the loaner, and the consumer was left with what was assumed to be a repaired car while the process drug on.

If you are being supplied with alternate transportation and feel confident the dealer is striving to make the repair, patience could be a virtue. Ultimately the repair will be done properly in most cases. But, continued repair without proper results will make the replacement much easier and done more speedily rather than being non-cooperative.

PeterUbers

Regardless of what happens, the OP should be involving MBUSA. If anyone is going to "replace" his car with a brand new one, it's MBUSA, not likely the dealership.

In my case, MBUSA cut a check for the depreciation of my 2014 palladium E550 to the dealership I got my replacement e550 from... it was a check for nearly $16,000 as the dealership charged MBUSA with MSRP + TLL on the replacement E550!!! (I didn't pay an extra dime, just signed a bunch of forms an a release)

Keep in mind that part of the inspection and testing phases of your repair include sometimes hundreds of miles of driving to test the vehicle. MB of Naperville added about 700 miles on my benz over a few months testing the vehicle.

A case can definitely be made for lemon here, but it'll be easier, and quicker to get a replacement by dealing with MBUSA. Lemon proceedings can take 2-3 years sometimes -- most people don't realize this. It's not an overnight transaction. Once a car gets branded a lemon, there is a significant depreciation to the vehicle, benz can't offer a CPO warranty on it nor will most after market warranty companies offer any extended warranty on the car and the car is forever branded a lemon on the title -- this does benz no good. They want to replace your car with a brand new one, attempt to keep you in the brand and earn future business and future referrals, NOT lemon your current E-class, have a rep drive it for 6 months and ensure it's fixed satisfactorily and then sell it as CPO and continue to earn money on that car and future service visits it'll require routinely.

I often read on these type of forums "just get demand a replacement!! lemon the car!!" from various posters, as if it's a black/white, easy process. That, it is NOT. It took months of me arbitrating over the phone, dropping the car off for loaners over and over again, countless calls to MBUSA, and finally coming close to but not quite retaining a lemon lawyer. Even my lemon lawyer (illinois) stated it would be easier and less frustrating for me to push the case with MBUSA and get a replacement in that fashion rather than use his services, despite me having a clear cut lemon case.

Also, what I would be pushing with the service manager and MBUSA is "Gosh, after a scary experience like that on the highway, I just do not feel safe in this car, no one can be sure the problem is fixed, i just don't feel safe, God forbid something terrible happen again like that..."

ats-1

Ok... some really good points here, again thank you all for the feedback!!

I guess my last question is when the inevitable call comes in that "they fix the car" do i refuse to take it and demand replacement or give another shot...

My gut tells me to push it, but quite honestly this is a first for me.

FYI, i do have cell phone shots of the dash from both occasions.

ats-1

Update....

Service Manager left message saying "new control module" was ordered and they would have the car until at least Monday evening. Loaner car obvioulsy still in my possesion. Monday will be 10 days in there possesion, not counting 3 days for last time.

sharpxia

Lemon for sure, happened to my friend, they should refund you or give you a new car.

KY.Benzster

I'm new the MBworld forums and even though I'm unable to provide guidance, I do in fact wish you luck ATS-1. I'm simply writing because I'm throughely impressed with everyone's willingness to "constructively" assist and provide helpful suggestions. These type of forums are few, far & between.
Cheers!

KEY08

It appears you have a lease from your original post and I'm sure it's much easier to break the lease agreement with this critical issue than having to be refunded the purchase price of the car or replacement had you purchased it. I doubt you would have much resistance if you said that you were walking on your lease and wanted your down payment monies refunded. Provide them your attorneys name and I'm sure they will settle immediately and pass the car onto someone else. Then go get something else to drive.

PeterUbers

If u are going to do anything, it's now or never. Don't wait a month and have the car drive perfectly and expect them to give u anything.

drsaab

They failed to fix it once. Now they have a second chance. If you like the car then give them that chance. Have the service manage drive it for a few days himself after the repair before they return it. And let em know three strikes and your out and you will Go to mb corporate and md inspection station etc. One module could cause such issues. But if that can't fix it then it's an electrical gremlin you don't want. A Lease should be very easy for them to swap a car vs a purchase if it goes to that.

PeterUbers

any updates?

ats-1

Service Manager called yesterday for permission to "take car home again" to capture more data... said that the new Control Module was in the car and they were testing. Case Manager said he would follow up when i spoke to him Monday and I have not heard back from him yet.

ats-1

Hopefully, FINAL Update....

Decided to give dealership/MBusa benifit of the doubt and took back the car yesterday. They replaced Control Module and reprogramed ECU & something else... I made it clear with both parties that if the same scenario repeats itself i would be returning the car for good. At least I can now say that if same thing happens again, I 100% gave them every opportunity to correct problem. I did feel that I could have put my foot down and demanded a replacement, however I just wasnt at that stage personaly. They gave me a loaner, and were trying hard.

I really appreciate everyones guidance through this!!! It's a great comfort knowing there are other E-Classers out there to help if needed.

JALLEN4

This topic comes up frequently in every car forum I have ever read and the replies often range from misinformed to totally naive. As a forty-two year long dealer, I have been through this process hundreds if not thousands of times.

Cars break. Some early and some late. This is why dealers have service departments and manufacturers have warranties.

Some repairs (a good sized percentage) take more than one attempt to fix. Anyone who has ever worked on a car can verify this.

If every customer who demanded a new car got their wish, cars would double in price or there would be far fewer manufacturers.

You can refuse to take your repaired car back at any time. This means the owner seeks alternative transportation and the dealer parks it in the back yard to be rained on until someone comes to their senses or gets tired of paying attorneys.

Having an attorney is not rare. Most every dealer has at least one they use frequently and every manufacturer employs several. Car owners can choose from many that make a handsome living in an emotional setting.

There are literally millions of ten year old cars being operated daily that someone declared a "Lemon" during its life and beyond redemption.

"Lemon Laws" are very effective and serve a great purpose. They do though have to be read, understood, and often interpreted. Since the process is very expensive, manufacturers will normally see to it that they are followed to the letter of the law. Also very expensive.

ats-1

@JALLEN4... Totally agree with your points as you bring up some good ones. My only concern was SAFETY. I lost Power Steering and ABS at speed on a highway twice. If it was a non-essential function I would never have posted this. The dealer was and is fantastic, actually enjoyed going there and chatting with the people. I NEVER want to deal with L-Law.. Sounds like a disaster!! I will say, if this happens again i will have no choice but to demand replacement. I dont think thats unreasonable, but my guess is they did a good job and the car was repaired for good.

JALLEN4

I certainly do not mean to minimize your concerns. I would most likely feel the same way if it were my vehicle. More often than not, the situation is not nearly as clear.