El Cid

This has been alluded to in some other threads, but thought I would start a stand-alone one.
Today's newspaper had a half page ad from local M-B dealer for the GLA-"Starting At $33,500." Last month it was the CLA. Appears M-B and it's dealers are pushing for the low end of the "luxury" market. Of course, not dissimilar to BMW, Lexus and the rest. And you could probably get a more reliable and better equipped Toyota Avalon for the same money.
BTW, half of the ad was a view of the dash. That stuck on infotainment display looks really, really cheap. Looks like a kid superglued his tablet to the dash. Apparently DAG is doing this so they can later modify the display without having to do anything with the dash itself, thereby lowering production costs. And the round vents just seem out of place and cheap looking. I personally think rectangular ones look better, especially in luxury cars. Probably why the vast majority of cars still have rectangular ones.

dfordham

I agree that the "tablet" look of the infotainment screen looks like an afterthought. Unfortunately, it looks like they are doing the same thing in the 2015 CLS.




Regards,
Don

petee1997

I traded my 2013 CLS for a 2015 and the tablet is a great improvement. Actually all the software has been updated including a browser, messaging, email. The car can read. The voice commands work much better. You can voice a complete address in one command without repeating two or three times.

This new model is simply a better experience in an already great car.

Germancar1

Right, I was just about the say that the screen really is placed just right and fits once you experience the car. Most of the people complaining haven't driven the car, they're looking at picture. It works brilliantly in the C-Class. I'm sure they integrate it better at facelift time, but I don't see it as a problem.

M

YYZ-E55

The CLS "tablet" is better than the MFAs, but the fact that the screen doesn't extend all the way to the edges is disappointing.

El Cid

My understanding is that DAG/MB has no plans to integrate the screen-ever. The whole purpose for current stuck on design is so they can just pop a different display on if they choose to in a few years without having to reconfigure the dash.

Airmousam

A dealer mentioned to me he was told that by MY2017 18 the plan is a mount only and customers will plug in their iPad. Who knows

K-A

From a design standpoint, imo it looks hideous and simply non-integrated (like one tech reviewer said; "Mercedes' implementation looks like an Android Tablet taped onto the dash"). Therefore it's obvious that they're sacrificing design for a modifiable technology functional standpoint going forward.

As more awkward screen implementations come about; I think that means these current crop of cars in the automotive world (who go forward with them) will be somewhat of interim "growing pain" model implementations. There's no way that in the next 1-3 gens we'll see the same "Tablet brutally placed on dash" approach. There will surely start to be some design integration once they find the "size" sweetspot, or get a deal with a certain Tablet maker to fit right into the dash slot, etc. Even the new C's implementation is somewhat more palatable than the CLS' which looks like a funny meme/joke by a Tech blogger, or the facelift ML which I believe will look similar. Therefore, even the next gens will surely sooth the interaction a bit. The W212 still has the "tiny" screen, but at least it looks integrated and designed-in still.

Honestly, to me it seems like M-B is going heavier on the marketing than any other brand these days, I see their adverts everywhere, majority of the time pushing the lower priced models, and IMO done in a way that you'd usually see from economy/mass volume brands. I feel like I don't see BMW or Audi adverts even a fraction of as much.

Bigglen1

Functionally it might be way better. But, cosmetically it does look like an add-on rather than smartly integrated. (imo anyway)

BeachBunny

I'm not opposed to that, as long as it supports Android or whatever else may exist by then. We've had iPads at our office and switched over to Samsung tablets -- so much better at getting work done that they've replaced carrying paper files around.

El Cid

What about people who do not own an iPad, tablet, etc. or do not wish to place one on the dash? MB would have to furnish something to fill the "hole."
This would also raise the issue of break-ins. They do it for cheap portable nav. units, cell phones, etc. now.

K-A

No premium automaker with style is going to purposefully use a Samsung tablet over an iPad, just won't happen unless it's for cost cutting reasons.

And that is a good point about being more transparent for potential break ins. Maybe it'll be a throwback to the 80's or 90's akin to when people had to take their head deck faces with them.

Airmousam

Agreed, seems a little far fetched, but like I said who knows

Also can not recall anyone having a portable nav lifted from their car in recent years. They are so cheap now and a hot unit would be worth nearly nothing...

Bigglen1

Cost may or may not have anything to do with it.
There are a host of practical, functional, and strategic reasons to choose Droid /Microsoft systems over Apple or vice versa. There are many people who prefer MS based tablets over iPads. Both have strong and week points. Also a lot depends on which Tech Co. fosters stronger business alliances with a particular auto mfg along with good development cooperation. But this is all assumption on my part. I'm no expert.


To me, regardless, it still should be in the dash and not on it!

nycebo

Agree with the predominant theme here: the tablet on the dash look is atrocious. Saw the C in person at the dealership over the past weekend and while it looks better than the photo, it still looks pretty garish. I noticed that BMW is doing a similar thing with their X5. While again still a bit nicer there, it still looks pretty raw. If anyone is doing it right, it's Tesla. Just make the entire middle section a display and I'd be as sound as a pound.

petee1997

All you nay sayers should spend a day in the car. The tablet is what you will see in all cars in the future. BMW has it in the 3 series and expect to see it in the 5 when BMW gets around to the facelift. The software is much easier to use along with much better graphics. The voice recognition is far superior to my previous model.

As far as marketing goes, K-A complaint about MB promoting entry level cars is actually super smart. Get the younger customers into a Benz early and upgrade them as their financial capacity grows. The old adage of the former great GM. A customer for life where they grow within the brand. Of course K-A with his "superior intellect" missed that one.

dfordham

What you are arguing is certainly true, but you are arguing functionality not aesthetics. The fact that the new COMAND software provides much better functionality on the new display does not change the fact that, for many people, the way the screen is integrated in the car is not aesthetically pleasing.

Regards,
Don

K-A

A bad design is a bad design, period. Plopping a faux Tablet onto a dash that doesn't appear designed for it is simply crude design. Guaranteed that cars today with that haphazard setup will look immensely dated in the future when they re-integrate them in a more proper way.

Oh, wise one, wow, thank you for that insight. Where'd you read that; M-B's press release? Your obsessive classy responses to my posts always bring about the utmost respect to you. You truly act over twice my age, bravo.

Cheesy and over saturated marketing along with cheesy and over saturated products (CLA, GLA) not only hamper a brands image, but it bring margins down along with the average price of transaction. Yes, M-B will garner younger shoppers, but not so much in the aspirational way they once did, until it eventually becomes a brand known for predominantly $30-ishK FWD cars and a few low volume upper market cars. Like Toyota/Lexus. This sort of approach would never have gotten M-B to the place they are today, which they did with a high margin, non-saturated, focused lineup. Brand management 101. M-B will increase volume and sales, yet will eventually start seeing diminished margins and diminished cachet. Which has already started. Expensive M-B's are selling less and less, while the increasing downmarket offerings are taking up the brunt of the brands volume. Already M-B has seen their initial quality ratings drop drastically with their lineup balance catering more downmarket.

IMO, this tactic isn't very smart because while M-B becomes more accessible to "younger shoppers" (marketing code word for "lower income") they lose the aspirational value and prestige factor, especially when those downmarket models look exactly like the upmarket ones (and when the high MSRP cars get discounted drastically as well), and share tons of parts, etc. (as they already do). So if those buyers start making more money and want to buy a "I made it" car (which M-B namely used to exemplify to the highest degree), they might be inclined to go to the new school of concise/focused yet slightly attainable prestige, i.e brands that have a higher entry price and a higher average transaction price and a higher enthusiast factor. Enter Porsche, maybe Maserati if they can get their quality together, Range Rover though they're only limited to SUV's, Audi though they have some "attainable" MSRP's, they don't discount much and don't culture a "lease then toss" approach which is apparently why they apparently have a pool of buyers who are wealthier than M-B or BMW buyers today, etc.

It's not just M-B, it's BMW as well. But BMW has always been bought more for its drive and engineering I feel, hence how the brands flagship is the 3 Series. M-B has always rode strongly on its badge and cachet/prestige factor, the very thing that makes especially longstanding nostalgic veterans of the brands presence like you wax fluffy words about what the corporate Star badge on the front of your cars means to you. Therefore I think they're making the biggest mistake by losing focus and spreading their lineup so wide and imo in-elegantly.

BeachBunny

Careful what you wish for. I had an Infiniti Q50 for a week (~1,000 miles) and the entire centre console is touch-screens...and it SUCKED. I know the media often pans COMAND due to the lack of touch screens, but there's a damn good reason Mercedes hasn't gone to them -- they're dangerous and take your eyes off the road. The Q50's lower touchscreen was at the level of my knee and had the tiniest little on-screen buttons which were fiddly. There was absolutely NO way to operate anything on there without looking at the screen. I actually felt safer trying to text on a touchscreen phone than trying to operate the car's touchscreens while driving.

BeachBunny

@K-A: So...explain to me this, how has Mercedes' reputation been diminished in Europe where the bog-standard taxis are E-Classes, and A & B classes have been around for 10+ years. Don't forget all of the utility vehicles/trucks/snowplows which also bear the three-pointed star.

A Mercedes-Benz garbage truck:


or how about a Mercedes sewage truck. It doesn't get much lower on the totem pole than this type of work:



IIRC, you can snag an A-Class for ~$22K USD in Europe. That doesn't seem to have cheapened the S-Class, nor people's impression thereof, at all from what I've observed. If anything, the latest S-Class makes a strong argument against buying a Roller or Bentley. Prior to the W222, those two were the only place you could get an interior such as that. No more. Add in the AMG-S variant and even Bentley's performance becomes a moot point.

I have heard of cars being genitalia-extensions for certain subset of the human species. If someone's ego depends upon what they drive, I'd highly suggest they get out more often. To quote one of my hedge fund buddies, "You know you can truly afford something, when you look at it, know you have enough cash in the bank to buy it...and resist doing so." Owning a particular car may be an accomplishment to some, but it's a very sad accomplishment.

To me, it's a car. If I could find a way to obscure the fact that it's a Mercedes, I would. When I started driving Mercedes, they were considered to be a well-built car, NOT a luxury car. I still see them as such. I wish some materialistic societies would do so as well.

K-A

What I noticed when in Europe is that M-B has a very different meaning out there than here. They're the home team/domestic, while out here, have always had a relative "exotic" (using that term loosely) nature via being an import. MBUSA don't use much of those commercial vehicles for a reason. They also probably don't try to get E Classes to be ubiquitous taxis out here as they are in Europe.

Last time I was in EU was in 2012. Before some of the newer downmarket M-B's came out. I actually spoke to many friends and family members out there about the subject. While M-B still had the utmost respect, the especially wealthier people would remark that "it's not the same" when I'd ask if their next car would be an M-B. I.e those looking for something aspirational found themselves craving something else since M-B's are not only commonplace, but have an increasingly lower cost of entry. Whether they followed that is another story (at the end of the day, the car's gotta be good).

There is no way in which diluting the product lineup with especially more downmarket offerings is good for brand cachet. Not on an image or quality benchmark (for the latter, again, you already see it dragging M-B down on CR reports where they recently got to levels akin to their heydays). I've thoroughly looked at the CLA/GLA and it'd be one thing if M-B revolutionized what a FWD Economy Car should be.... but really they are some extremely underwhelming vehicles, IMO. The GLA even has nasty exposed metal door frames which is very un-premium car like. The ride of the CLA is absolutely brutal over rough roads, and the interiors are comparable to cars that cost much less.

The S Class will always be the umparket M-B that will hold its ground, and a lot of what I'm saying (of course they're assumptions or theories but it's what I think is happening) is stuff that will start to play out in 10-20+ years, if M-B keeps going this route. They'll successfully chase volume, but there will be tradeoffs. Nissan and Toyota, etc. all chase volume and do it very well, but they aren't exactly revered for that.

Your point is spot on via whether or not that matters. That's a different discussion entirely. Lots of people, namely I'd expect older people who grew up during M-B's quality dominance didn't get them because of an image, but more a quality. However, those who especially grew up to 90's and 00 M-B's which relied much heavier on product image over product quality, from what I've noticed and personally experienced, have always put the brand on a prestige pedestal. Even the huge discounting, at the level we see it, it seemed to be a whole new level once the W212 came out. Of course it'll help numbers now, i.e short term, but I hear of lots of people who would've considered an E Class before, looking for something else because the market has essentially priced it down a peg and M-B are caving into or even catalyzing that. It's not really snobby in every situation, as the whole point of a premium brand is to be aspirational (and make products worthy of being so), and I think that's an important element when one is especially paying a premium, and especially an enthusiast.

Again, these are just my thoughts. I'm not a materialistic person but cars have always been the items that materially I like to generate an emotion from. You always want something when you grow up, and it feels good to get it. It's how we are by nature, just in different aspects. That's what makes up Luxury items. To me, that was important about M-B, and maybe to others it's not so much.

El Cid

Have to disagree. The Tesla is worst of all. Might as well just take a 28" HD TV and stick it sideways on the console.
BTW, I have a new vehicle with touch screen control for nav. and audio. Within a couple of weeks had greasy fingerprints all over the screen. Wish it had buttons or a big wheel like COMAND.

El Cid

The old GM, Chrysler, Ford strategy, thanks to Alfred Sloan, was to build a hierarchy of substantially different MAKES under one corportation. No one who purchased a Lincoln thought of it as a Ford and the same with Cadillac vs. Chevrolet or even Oldsmobile and Buick. Same with Chrysler and Dodge and Plymouth.
You moved from MAKE to MAKE, not up within the make itself. Of course, when Chevy and Ford and Plymouth started building luxury cars in the late '60's it all changed and resulted in what we have today.
Actually, DAG tried this by re-creating Maybach which ultimately failed and trying it again with the S600 MB-Maybach.
BTW, Buick still exists because it sells really well in China, not because it sells well in US.
Also, M-B has ALWAYS been a luxury/prestige car in the U.S. and marketed that way. Just look at all the tie-ins MBUSA has with expensive, luxury hotels, resorts, restaurants, clothing stores, etc.

K-A

While Tesla has the best next-gen style implementation of infotainment, by far, I agree in that as a design it's equally as atrocious. The entire console is basically a brick screen. It's implemented better than the cheap looking "Tablet on a dash", but still sacrifices design for screen technology. Something that's obviously trending in the industry, unfortunately. Tech has always taken a backseat to me in cars, as it's not an emotional connection. I prefer something more connecting to my senses and raw, such as design, engineering, mechanics or tech aided mechanics, etc.

Exactly. When it comes to aspiration, a brand can only go so far when they have, say $20somethingK cars, and $120+K cars. If I have a $30K CLA and then sit in a $130K "CL" (S Coupe), I see too many similarities inside and out, and I've already had the "Benz", so paying that much for for me on a product that carries a huge premium for its model name (very high margin) carries very little extra aspiration. So that's when people look to new brands that are more singularly designated as lower volume, higher cachet. This will vary form person to person, but it's common psychology. M-B will surely try and balance out their race to the lower segments with pushing hard on their upper segment cars, but we'll see how that works out in about 20 or so years when whole new generations are growing up to FWD M-B's that will soon enough probably be able to be leased under $200 a month. If their margins were to get too sacrificed and/or the lower cars cause too many quality issues (such as the CLA/GLA, etc. have already seemingly started to do via CR) then they have less to invest into the uber-luxury segments. The reason why high margin businesses are typically able maintain a premium quality to their products is because those high margins when accounted for properly, are used to reinvest into products, which ensure that they have the ability to go extra lengths that lower margin businesses simply can't afford to rationalize.

petee1997

That is true but is is easier to see being more at eye level. It would be impossible to have the built in unit that high.