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Just purchased 4 Michelin X-Ice Xi3 snow Tires for my 2010 - E350 with a new set of aftermarket rims. I can't see spending $$$$ on rims for severe weather and tons of salt on OEM Mercedes rims! Have anybody else used a set of the "New" Michelin X-Ice Xi3's ? They were rated very high and much better than the Xi2's. I am not going through another winter like last year with all Continental All-Season radials with less than 5/32 thread! Let me know what you think? Out the door price with warranty, replacement on rims for breakage, dents and wheel locks for $1780.00 245/40/R18 tires.
No no no the General Altimax Artic which is a re-branded Gisalved Nordfrost 3 is the best, at least IMO. I like studdable winter tires vs "performance winter" - I'm more interested in going and stopping than cornering in snow. I haven't driven the Nokian, but they look pretty good and have mores sizes than the Generals.
I would have opted for something smaller than 245/40/18 for dedicated snow tires/wheels.
Winter tires are definitely required for snow if you have RWD. With my new 4M I'm gonna try my Conti DWS AS this year however.
No no no the General Altimax Artic which is a re-branded Gisalved Nordfrost 3 is the best, at least IMO. I like studdable winter tires vs "performance winter" - I'm more interested in going and stopping than cornering in snow. I haven't driven the Nokian, but they look pretty good and have mores sizes than the Generals.
I would have opted for something smaller than 245/40/18 for dedicated snow tires/wheels.
Winter tires are definitely required for snow if you have RWD. With my new 4M I'm gonna try my Conti DWS AS this year however.
Tire rack and Consumer Reports both have the Xice as the top winter tire...
I'm not referring to my personal experience or opinion, but independent research?
Impossible I didn't state anything as fact, just my opinion.
Originally Posted by looney100
Tire rack and Consumer Reports both have the Xice as the top winter tire...
I'm not referring to my personal experience or opinion, but independent research?
Yes, only among "studless ice & snow winter tires". Studdable winter tires are a different category. When Tire rack tested studdable winter tires general came out on top (they don't sell Nokian). When consumer Report tested studdable and studless and the Nokian came out on top of the General and Xice.
When I had to put snows on previous cars, I always puchased factory rims. True they were expensive, but I always had nice factory rims and just refused to have my car look second best for three months or so of Winter.
Yes, only among "studless ice & snow winter tires". Studdable winter tires are a different category. When Tire rack tested studdable winter tires general came out on top (they don't sell Nokian). When consumer Report tested studdable and studless and the Nokian came out on top of the General and Xice.
Yes. Was commenting on stud less. Can't use studded tires in many jurisdictions up here.
Tire rack and Consumer Reports both have the Xice as the top winter tire...
I'm not referring to my personal experience or opinion, but independent research?
Tire Rack is a company that promotes the brands they sell. They do not sell Nokian Tires. You can buy those only from dealers who have done a contract with them or you can buy them thru internet at "Tiresbyweb".
If you look at those tire performance tests that Tire Rack or Consumer Reports refer to there is no Nokian Tires in the test if it was not won by one. Only the main huge brands known to the whole world usually are in these tests and Nokian is not one of those.
Nokian does not advertise much. Some in Canada and perhaps in the northern states.
But it is also that Nokian winter tires cost a bit more than others. If you had them on your car you would know why. The extra cost is well worth it in tire performance in winter conditions.
Tire Rack is a company that promotes the brands they sell. They do not sell Nokian Tires. You can buy those only from dealers who have done a contract with them or you can buy them thru internet at "Tiresbyweb".
If you look at those tire performance tests that Tire Rack or Consumer Reports refer to there is no Nokian Tires in the test if it was not won by one. Only the main huge brands known to the whole world usually are in these tests and Nokian is not one of those.
Nokian does not advertise much. Some in Canada and perhaps in the northern states.
But it is also that Nokian winter tires cost a bit more than others. If you had them on your car you would know why. The extra cost is well worth it in tire performance in winter conditions.
The question I have is how do you define winter conditions. From what I have heard most people define this as snow slush and ice performance while also "working" in the cold. If this is in line with your or I should say Nokinan's definition the next question is how good is good enough and at what cost to "other" performance characteristics. Is "awesome" in winter conditions good enough or are we talking "totally *** mind-blowingly awesome" but at the expense of steering response, stability at higher speeds, noise and or comfort?
The reason I ask is because I have a set of Blizzak WS-70s on my RWD E350. These tires I would categorize as one of the best in winter conditions. I am sure they are not as good as Nokinans but good enough for what we would ever be driving in. However, they are noisy and more importantly they have a slight dead spot on center with what I would consider a lot of play in the wheel going straight and pretty poor overall steering response. Sure they are not performance winters, but they just are too soft IMO, and my wife agrees and she is not looking for performance, just confidence. We get that in winter conditions, but not when it is just cold and wet (or even dry). These are T rated tires so I knew going in that they weren't designed to master the twisties or set speed records. Maybe I am spoiled by the high performance winters on my BMW - not as good in the snow, but very good everywhere else and still not as loud as the Blizzak's.
So how do the Nokinan Hakkapelittas fare on cold but clear streets especially considering the fact that they are R speed rated tires? Hell Tire rack classifies this speed rating as "HD light truck" tires. I am not planning on exceeding the 106 mph limit or anything but the speed rating also indicates sidewall construction which also aids in steering response etc. I don't see many R rated tires in this size intended for this type of car - I actually haven't found any but haven't looked very hard as you can't filter on speed ratings for this size below H.
Edit: I am not knocking the Nokinans. I am sure they are the best on snow/ice/slush I just prefer a bit more of a performance tire than my Blizzaks and I suspect the Nokinans will be similar if not worse in that respect. with tires there are always trade offs.
The question I have is how do you define winter conditions. From what I have heard most people define this as snow slush and ice performance while also "working" in the cold. If this is in line with your or I should say Nokinan's definition the next question is how good is good enough and at what cost to "other" performance characteristics. Is "awesome" in winter conditions good enough or are we talking "totally *** mind-blowingly awesome" but at the expense of steering response, stability at higher speeds, noise and or comfort?
The reason I ask is because I have a set of Blizzak WS-70s on my RWD E350. These tires I would categorize as one of the best in winter conditions. I am sure they are not as good as Nokinans but good enough for what we would ever be driving in. However, they are noisy and more importantly they have a slight dead spot on center with what I would consider a lot of play in the wheel going straight and pretty poor overall steering response. Sure they are not performance winters, but they just are too soft IMO, and my wife agrees and she is not looking for performance, just confidence. We get that in winter conditions, but not when it is just cold and wet (or even dry). These are T rated tires so I knew going in that they weren't designed to master the twisties or set speed records. Maybe I am spoiled by the high performance winters on my BMW - not as good in the snow, but very good everywhere else and still not as loud as the Blizzak's.
So how do the Nokinan Hakkapelittas fare on cold but clear streets especially considering the fact that they are R speed rated tires? Hell Tire rack classifies this speed rating as "HD light truck" tires. I am not planning on exceeding the 106 mph limit or anything but the speed rating also indicates sidewall construction which also aids in steering response etc. I don't see many R rated tires in this size intended for this type of car - I actually haven't found any but haven't looked very hard as you can't filter on speed ratings for this size below H.
Edit: I am not knocking the Nokinans. I am sure they are the best on snow/ice/slush I just prefer a bit more of a performance tire than my Blizzaks and I suspect the Nokinans will be similar if not worse in that respect. with tires there are always trade offs.
Based on what you write you don't really need a full winter tire. Sounds like all season would work for you. You say that you feel poor steering response and the car has a "dead spot" on steering in center. You also mention the tires feel too soft.
I don't know why you (and your wife) think tires are too soft. I'm guessing you think this way because of the feel the tires give you. Poor lateral grip that also causes the "dead spot" in the middle of the steering (car does not track well when going straight on straight road) probably makes you think the tires are too soft. I don't think it is about the hardness of the tire, it is about the quality of the tire.
Speed rating of T or R does not really matter as it is only for the max speed to make sure the tire don't blow up during driving. It really has nothing to do with the performance of the tire and how it makes your car handle.
Looking at a picture of the Blizzak-WS 70 it looks like a full winter tire and the tread on the tire also looks like a noisy one.
If you need full winter tire, i.e. lots of heavy snow then you should look at the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2. It is non-studded winter tire. I assume you cannot use studded tires? If you could the selection would be the Hakkapeliitta 8.
But, as I mentioned above it sounds like you don't need a full winter tires. In this case I think the tire for you would be the Nokian WRG3. It is a V speed rated tire so that would satisfy your sportier tire feel.
Watch the below video. It is a commercial for sure but at about 2/3 down it shows a very interesting demonstration how the rubber stays soft in extreme low temperature, which is one of the most important properties of the tire for maintaining good grip in cold temperatures.
But these tires are not cheap. The Hakkapeliitta 8 is about $290 / piece where the WRG3 and R2 are at around $260 / piece.
The Blizzak is at around $90 / piece.
I am not a Nokian sales guy or have no ties of any kind to them. I just happen to know about these tires and I can say they also make the best summer tires you can buy. Have them on my car right now and will have again. These actually are lower cost to buy than other brands because they are not known and they don't spend much for advertising.
Based on what you write you don't really need a full winter tire. Sounds like all season would work for you. You say that you feel poor steering response and the car has a "dead spot" on steering in center. You also mention the tires feel too soft.
I don't know why you (and your wife) think tires are too soft. I'm guessing you think this way because of the feel the tires give you. Poor lateral grip that also causes the "dead spot" in the middle of the steering (car does not track well when going straight on straight road) probably makes you think the tires are too soft. I don't think it is about the hardness of the tire, it is about the quality of the tire.
Speed rating of T or R does not really matter as it is only for the max speed to make sure the tire don't blow up during driving. It really has nothing to do with the performance of the tire and how it makes your car handle.
Looking at a picture of the Blizzak-WS 70 it looks like a full winter tire and the tread on the tire also looks like a noisy one.
If you need full winter tire, i.e. lots of heavy snow then you should look at the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2. It is non-studded winter tire. I assume you cannot use studded tires? If you could the selection would be the Hakkapeliitta 8.
But, as I mentioned above it sounds like you don't need a full winter tires. In this case I think the tire for you would be the Nokian WRG3. It is a V speed rated tire so that would satisfy your sportier tire feel.
Watch the below video. It is a commercial for sure but at about 2/3 down it shows a very interesting demonstration how the rubber stays soft in extreme low temperature, which is one of the most important properties of the tire for maintaining good grip in cold temperatures.
But these tires are not cheap. The Hakkapeliitta 8 is about $290 / piece where the WRG3 and R2 are at around $260 / piece.
The Blizzak is at around $90 / piece.
I am not a Nokian sales guy or have no ties of any kind to them. I just happen to know about these tires and I can say they also make the best summer tires you can buy. Have them on my car right now and will have again. These actually are lower cost to buy than other brands because they are not known and they don't spend much for advertising.
The WS-70s were $180ish a few years ago, they were rated very similar to the Michelin Xice3s. Bridgestone just came out with the WS-80 this year I believe and they replace the 70s. That is probably why you saw discounted prices - tire rack is sold out of the 70s in most sizes and I don't believe the stock will be replenished.
I also don't agree with you on the speed rating. Sure it is meant to set the max speed and that is what they test to, but it is also a big factor in sidewall construction which will affect the lateral rigidity of the tire. Manufacturers often make the same tread design with different speed ratings. They don't just take the same tires and test them faster, they make them different and it is mostly in the sidewall design/construction and some materials. Having said this, I am not trying to debate speed ratings. I really want to know if there are stud-less ice and snow tires that will work for us.
We do need winter tires all season are not good enough here (in fact probably not safe for my wife and son in the snow and ice IMO) on a RWD Merc. Performance winters/all weathers are not needed on the E350, studables aren't allowed and are even nosier. I think I want stud-less ice and snow, but I don't want squishy and non responsive like the WS70s. In fact the dead spot on center is actually mentioned in the tests on tire rack. I am curious about the Nokinans as our next set we get, but I am concerned that they will be similar and that is why I am asking. Don't get me wrong, the Blizzaks are awesome in winter conditions, very sure footed, plus you drive slower in these conditions so the issues are less noticeable.
How would you rate the Nokinans on cold and dry/wet - 70% - 80% of our winter driving I'd say here in Boston - as compared to the stock conti pros (or whatever) or other stud-less Ice and snow tires? As I said, I am sure they are the best in real winter conditions. I just want to get other opinions on them the other 75ish% of the time.
The WS-70s were $180ish a few years ago, they were rated very similar to the Michelin Xice3s. Bridgestone just came out with the WS-80 this year I believe and they replace the 70s. That is probably why you saw discounted prices - tire rack is sold out of the 70s in most sizes and I don't believe the stock will be replenished.
I also don't agree with you on the speed rating. Sure it is meant to set the max speed and that is what they test to, but it is also a big factor in sidewall construction which will affect the lateral rigidity of the tire. Manufacturers often make the same tread design with different speed ratings. They don't just take the same tires and test them faster, they make them different and it is mostly in the sidewall design/construction and some materials. Having said this, I am not trying to debate speed ratings. I really want to know if there are stud-less ice and snow tires that will work for us.
We do need winter tires all season are not good enough here (in fact probably not safe for my wife and son in the snow and ice IMO) on a RWD Merc. Performance winters/all weathers are not needed on the E350, studables aren't allowed and are even nosier. I think I want stud-less ice and snow, but I don't want squishy and non responsive like the WS70s. In fact the dead spot on center is actually mentioned in the tests on tire rack. I am curious about the Nokinans as our next set we get, but I am concerned that they will be similar and that is why I am asking. Don't get me wrong, the Blizzaks are awesome in winter conditions, very sure footed, plus you drive slower in these conditions so the issues are less noticeable.
How would you rate the Nokinans on cold and dry/wet - 70% - 80% of our winter driving I'd say here in Boston - as compared to the stock conti pros (or whatever) or other stud-less Ice and snow tires? As I said, I am sure they are the best in real winter conditions. I just want to get other opinions on them the other 75ish% of the time.
Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 is your tire then.
And believe me, it will give you a lot better feel than the Blizzaks.
They will be almost the same as summer tires in summer conditions driving in wet/dry cold conditions. Probably a bit noisier though but that is what you get with any winter tire.
They will also wear a little bit faster than a summer tire but this is also what you get with a true winter tires. Should not be too bad though.
Well Ladies and Gents, I didn't want to start a Pissing War on what is the BEST Snow Radial! I feel almost all of them work accordingly in the type of condition needed. Here in Ohio, studs are only allowed on the roads after so many inches of snow and ice. Otherwise the Police will ticket you according to local zoning laws regulated for Snow Studs on vehicles. But, yes they work great, had them on my 1963 Chevy Impala convertible! I have included a picture how it looks now.......what else can i say but, thanks for the imput. Just really wanted to know if other MB Owners had troubles with balancing and handling problems with the Michelin X-Ice Xi3's or defects? Merry Christmas! or Kevin would say in Home Alone "Merry Christmas YOU Filthy Animals" and yea, "Happy New Year". Ho ho ho......
Last edited by toledotom; 12-22-2014 at 12:18 PM.
Reason: forgot picture
And believe me, it will give you a lot better feel than the Blizzaks.
They will be almost the same as summer tires in summer conditions driving in wet/dry cold conditions. Probably a bit noisier though but that is what you get with any winter tire.
They will also wear a little bit faster than a summer tire but this is also what you get with a true winter tires. Should not be too bad though.
Consumer Reports rated the Nokians Hakkapelliitas R2 behind the Nokian WR G3 and Michelin PA4. CR found that the R2 had exceptionally poor wet and dry braking. The R2s were the best on ice and snow in the performance winter category, though.
I used to switch tires when going into Winter. When I had RWD, it was necessary. With AWD I find All-Seasons do an adequate job for me if conditions are not severe. Otherwise, I work from home on those days. One problem I found with Winter tires was timing. If I left them on too long (or there was a short-term thaw) and warm days were encountered, they tended to get a bit "squirrely" due to the soft rubber compound. Also on a majority of the Winter days when roads were already plowed and dry, the handling was not as good because they were optimized for ice and snow. So I find for the type of driving I do that All-Seasons (sometimes referred to as "No-Seasons") are certainly a compromise, but one that works for me.
I have had some good winter tires before. Blizaks, and Yokohama ice guard. This year I have xice and they are better. And yes they are rated highest, that's why I bought them and not disappointed at all. And I do put them to a good test, traction control is usually off
Just purchased 4 Michelin X-Ice Xi3 snow Tires for my 2010 - E350 with a new set of aftermarket rims. I can't see spending $$$$ on rims for severe weather and tons of salt on OEM Mercedes rims! Have anybody else used a set of the "New" Michelin X-Ice Xi3's ? They were rated very high and much better than the Xi2's. I am not going through another winter like last year with all Continental All-Season radials with less than 5/32 thread! Let me know what you think? Out the door price with warranty, replacement on rims for breakage, dents and wheel locks for $1780.00 245/40/R18 tires.
I have a 2011 350 4Matic wagon. I bought M10 replica after market wheels and put the same Michelin X-Ice Xi3 tire on them. They are 17" as recommended not the 18" which are the stock wheel. The offset is 45 not 48 but no issues as it is going the right direction and irrelevant.
They are a pretty good tire for our climate. Snow here unlike southern Ontario is wet and compacts to ice really fast and they do well. We also get a lot of winter rain with standing or in some case flowing water all over the roads. With them and the 4Matic things work much better than with the AS tires at the lower temps.
I don't understand why more folks who need winters do not buy rims based on costs around here.
To get them bolted on and taken off costs me $70 a season. If I had to have the AS dismounted and the winters mounted on the rims and installed on the car I am looking at $300 per season. My rims cost me $135 each so they were paid for by the start of 3rd winter It also gives you the chance to so to the higher wall height and breaking the bead and stretching it over the rim twice a year cannot be good for the tire.
Impossible I didn't state anything as fact, just my opinion.
Yes, only among "studless ice & snow winter tires". Studdable winter tires are a different category. When Tire rack tested studdable winter tires general came out on top (they don't sell Nokian). When consumer Report tested studdable and studless and the Nokian came out on top of the General and Xice.
Lots of jurisdictions do not permit studded tires. Too hard on the road.
I also lost a windshield when one came out of the tire on a car ahead of me years ago. We found it down in the cowl. I was surprised to find it actually. One would think it would have bounced away.
I used to switch tires when going into Winter. When I had RWD, it was necessary. With AWD I find All-Seasons do an adequate job for me if conditions are not severe. Otherwise, I work from home on those days. One problem I found with Winter tires was timing. If I left them on too long (or there was a short-term thaw) and warm days were encountered, they tended to get a bit "squirrely" due to the soft rubber compound. Also on a majority of the Winter days when roads were already plowed and dry, the handling was not as good because they were optimized for ice and snow. So I find for the type of driving I do that All-Seasons (sometimes referred to as "No-Seasons") are certainly a compromise, but one that works for me.
AWD doesn't make your car stop or turn better in the snow... All season tires perform poorly in cold weather, regardless of road conditions. IMO, they should be mandated in cold climates.
AWD doesn't make your car stop or turn better in the snow... All season tires perform poorly in cold weather, regardless of road conditions. IMO, they should be mandated in cold climates.
Sure, you cannot turn as well but there are some decent all-season tires that perform well judging from my experience in New England Winter driving (and judging from reviews and surveys). I'd rather have good all-seasons than Winter tires that perform poorly in wet and dry weather conditions at above-freezing temperatures which occur a significant percentage of the time.
12-16-2014, 04:30 PM
Michelin X-Ice Xi3 snow tires
but I got them last year before I knew of the Hakka's which I got this year for 2 daughters cars and wife's RX350 Lexus
