Consumer Reports: Mercedes goes from #10 to #21
02-26-2015, 06:20 PM
#27
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2013 650i Coupe, 2010 IS250 AWD, 1999 S500
VW's are great because if you walk across the street and buy an Audi A3, S3 or TT you're getting the same car underneath as the Golf, GTI or Golf R. MB doesn't have that luxury.
M
Last edited by Germancar1; 02-26-2015 at 06:24 PM.
02-26-2015, 07:20 PM
#28
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What about the Phaeton? It is not available in North America but it is in Europe. it runs £49000 to £52000 in LWB base price in the UK with the current promotions of £7000 (http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/buying-g...iii/special/13).
I just configured a 3 L TDI as close to my E class as possible and with the options and without the discount it came in at £54000. That is not chump change.
I just configured a 3 L TDI as close to my E class as possible and with the options and without the discount it came in at £54000. That is not chump change.
02-26-2015, 08:35 PM
#29
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The GLA/GLE/CLA line are all targeted to younger audiences, but dont forget. The statistics might say large majority of owners are over 50, but they buy cars for their daughters/sons/wives/parents. They want safe/sporty/mildly affordable. (one because most people have a few kids, and second alot of kids total their cars)
I was asked to do a review of the IDEA of the CLA 4 years ago for MBAdvisors and I completely said the same thing you guys did. Now after seeing it launch, checking out the 45 engine and seeing the results, im converted. They did a smashing job. Im even considering a GLA45 for my lady when we have a kid.
The CLA is made by the youngest team of designers from mb/amg. They used a totally new style and method of design and engineering for the car. It is paying off huge dividends for that car class/demographic. The CLA did not take C class buyers, it introduced new buyers from all levels. The CLA was a major success. Actually, all car companies are going both ways: maserati and aston and the like making more affordable cars, and mb reviving brands like maybach.
The new m235i is a super harsh ride with an odd tranny thats copycatted to 20 other car models in the market. Doesnt mean it doesnt serve its purpose perfectly. The people that buy it dont care about the ride. My coworker has a manual, loves it to death. I personally have alot of esteem for the car and compliment him on it alot, however its not for me.
Bottom line: Mercedes has a wide range of models, if you pick the right one for you as a person (being educated as to what car does what best) you will never go wrong with mercedes. I like how you can say its unreliable, the cars BRAND NEW. I have an idea, why dont we do a soundoff of all the people who vote yes or no on the CLA type lineage of MB, and have each person report their age/job title/cars owned currently/hometown; Bet youll see striking similarities to those who like/dislike a certain topic.
You want to talk about bad ideas, thers some new suv coming out to mimic bmws X6. talk about terrible idea =D
I was asked to do a review of the IDEA of the CLA 4 years ago for MBAdvisors and I completely said the same thing you guys did. Now after seeing it launch, checking out the 45 engine and seeing the results, im converted. They did a smashing job. Im even considering a GLA45 for my lady when we have a kid.
The CLA is made by the youngest team of designers from mb/amg. They used a totally new style and method of design and engineering for the car. It is paying off huge dividends for that car class/demographic. The CLA did not take C class buyers, it introduced new buyers from all levels. The CLA was a major success. Actually, all car companies are going both ways: maserati and aston and the like making more affordable cars, and mb reviving brands like maybach.
The new m235i is a super harsh ride with an odd tranny thats copycatted to 20 other car models in the market. Doesnt mean it doesnt serve its purpose perfectly. The people that buy it dont care about the ride. My coworker has a manual, loves it to death. I personally have alot of esteem for the car and compliment him on it alot, however its not for me.
Bottom line: Mercedes has a wide range of models, if you pick the right one for you as a person (being educated as to what car does what best) you will never go wrong with mercedes. I like how you can say its unreliable, the cars BRAND NEW. I have an idea, why dont we do a soundoff of all the people who vote yes or no on the CLA type lineage of MB, and have each person report their age/job title/cars owned currently/hometown; Bet youll see striking similarities to those who like/dislike a certain topic.
You want to talk about bad ideas, thers some new suv coming out to mimic bmws X6. talk about terrible idea =D
and yes, that new X6 wannabe is a complete eyesore!
02-27-2015, 02:51 PM
#32
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I guess I am bring another bottle of wine tomorrow when I see him for the recall.
02-27-2015, 04:21 PM
#33
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2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Reliabiity is the issue
It is paying off huge dividends for that car class/demographic. The CLA did not take C class buyers, it introduced new buyers from all levels. The CLA was a major success. Actually, all car companies are going both ways: maserati and aston and the like making more affordable cars, and mb reviving brands like maybach.
Bottom line: Mercedes has a wide range of models, I like how you can say its unreliable, the cars BRAND NEW.
It is taking sales from the "C class, just as GLA will take them from the GLK, but takes years to actually determine that also.
Maserati is selling a less expensive car because FIAT OWNS IT! BTW, it has not been rated well either.
DAG (not MB) lost many millions (billions?) of Euros on the Maybach. Too early to see if a Mercedes-Maybach will be successful.
Mercedes-Benz does have a very wide range of models and maybe that is part of the problem.
The CLA has sold enough models that a very large number of people have REPORTED significant reliability and quality issues. Same for the new "S" Class. Even more important, these issues exist in a Mercedes-Benz.
We all like our cars, but M-B reliability has been slipping and maintenance is costly.
The other issue is will selling a lower priced vehicle eventually erode the cachet of owning the Silver Star? And make no mistake, most people who purchase a luxury make do so for the badge as much as anything else.
Last edited by El Cid; 02-27-2015 at 04:23 PM.
02-28-2015, 02:22 PM
#34
Senior Member
What is being missed here is that Mercedes HAS to build the CLA/GLA cars or severely hurt their business. Because of the market trend being towards smaller more efficient product and the demands of the corporate CAFE requirements, they have no alternative and still compete in the U.S. market.
Job 1 had to be to design a product that would sell in quantity and maintain some level of profit. From a sales perspective, they appear to have exceeded their expectations witness the plants running 24/7. There will be time to go back to design to fix those problems incurred both in this series and the redesigns of the C and S classes. A natural progression we have seen from Mercedes and most other manufacturers.
While no one can actually say the cars are horrible, I would agree they are not yet the standard Mercedes would like. Great sales will afford them the opportunity to correct that situation. Poor sales would have certainly complicated the process. It is easy to forget the position Audi and Volkswagen were in where the product had issues combined with no sales. It took them both decades to overcome that scenario.
Job 1 had to be to design a product that would sell in quantity and maintain some level of profit. From a sales perspective, they appear to have exceeded their expectations witness the plants running 24/7. There will be time to go back to design to fix those problems incurred both in this series and the redesigns of the C and S classes. A natural progression we have seen from Mercedes and most other manufacturers.
While no one can actually say the cars are horrible, I would agree they are not yet the standard Mercedes would like. Great sales will afford them the opportunity to correct that situation. Poor sales would have certainly complicated the process. It is easy to forget the position Audi and Volkswagen were in where the product had issues combined with no sales. It took them both decades to overcome that scenario.
02-28-2015, 02:56 PM
#35
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2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Not necessarily
What is being missed here is that Mercedes HAS to build the CLA/GLA cars or severely hurt their business. Because of the market trend being towards smaller more efficient product and the demands of the corporate CAFE requirements, they have no alternative and still compete in the U.S. market.
THE issue is not whether or not MB sells a smaller, more efficient car, but whether they sell a cheaper (advertised by MB that way) car that is not up to MB standards and has quality issues.
02-28-2015, 03:02 PM
#36
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Maybe, but they could also phase out many of the very inefficient, but highly profitable, models they sell. Then they would meet the CAFE standards, as other makes do.
THE issue is not whether or not MB sells a smaller, more efficient car, but whether they sell a cheaper (advertised by MB that way) car that is not up to MB standards and has quality issues.
THE issue is not whether or not MB sells a smaller, more efficient car, but whether they sell a cheaper (advertised by MB that way) car that is not up to MB standards and has quality issues.
02-28-2015, 05:58 PM
#37
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Maybe, but they could also phase out many of the very inefficient, but highly profitable, models they sell. Then they would meet the CAFE standards, as other makes do.
THE issue is not whether or not MB sells a smaller, more efficient car, but whether they sell a cheaper (advertised by MB that way) car that is not up to MB standards and has quality issues.
THE issue is not whether or not MB sells a smaller, more efficient car, but whether they sell a cheaper (advertised by MB that way) car that is not up to MB standards and has quality issues.
I really don't know which cars you would start cutting? They sell around 1200 G's a year. The total S Class sales and SL sales are far short of 10% of sales in this country. Other than adding higher mileage sales to the mix, cutting would need to start with the E series.
Mercedes has no higher mix of low mileage cars to high mileage cars than BMW, Cadillac, etc. Other luxury makes are attempting the same strategy as Mercedes and have all the same problems with reliability and teething problems with new models.
03-01-2015, 11:19 AM
#38
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E 250
We wanted a nice, but cheaper small car to run errands with and we ended up buying a 2015 GTI. the main reason was that the darn thing felt an awful lot like a much smaller version of our E250 as far as ride quality. Not quite the same, but certainly close enough for a $30 car.
03-01-2015, 05:27 PM
#39
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MB is the only mainstream luxury car maker (I'm not including Jaguar, Land Rover, etc) that doesn't have an entire division of subcompacts and family sedans to offset the rest of its fleet. Porsche is in a similar situation....
Originally Posted by michael61
This!
We wanted a nice, but cheaper small car to run errands with and we ended up buying a 2015 GTI. the main reason was that the darn thing felt an awful lot like a much smaller version of our E250 as far as ride quality. Not quite the same, but certainly close enough for a $30 car.
We wanted a nice, but cheaper small car to run errands with and we ended up buying a 2015 GTI. the main reason was that the darn thing felt an awful lot like a much smaller version of our E250 as far as ride quality. Not quite the same, but certainly close enough for a $30 car.
This was also my impression of the GTI. The stiffness of the structure and the ride quality (firm but w/ enough taken off of the very roughest bumps) reminded me a lot of the MBs that I so loved from the 1980's and 1990's. So much so that I'm seriously considering getting a Golf Sportwagen as a replacement for my W204. The W205 is too expensive and appears to having a ton of reliability issues. If I'm going to get an unreliable German car, I might as well spend less.
Last edited by alsyli; 03-01-2015 at 05:31 PM.
03-02-2015, 09:19 AM
#40
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2010 E350 Luxury Sedan, Engine 272 (V6)
Smart?
This is not true, AFAIK. BMW gets to count all of the MINI cars in this fleet mileage, and Cadillac is folded in w/ ALL GM cars (including Chevrolet). Lexus gets folded in with Toyota, and Infinitis gets included w/ Nissans. Audis are a part of VW.
MB is the only mainstream luxury car maker (I'm not including Jaguar, Land Rover, etc) that doesn't have an entire division of subcompacts and family sedans to offset the rest of its fleet. Porsche is in a similar situation....
MB is the only mainstream luxury car maker (I'm not including Jaguar, Land Rover, etc) that doesn't have an entire division of subcompacts and family sedans to offset the rest of its fleet. Porsche is in a similar situation....
Does BMW have to fold in Rolls Royce?
03-02-2015, 10:41 AM
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Ah, good point. Presumably so (for both MB and BMW). Don't know how the calculations work, but, if it's volume-based, Smart probably wouldn't make much of a dent (just as Rolls Royce probably won't affect BMWs corporate average much, either). The gas Smart cars don't get fuel mileage that's THAT impressive, either....
