W212 E400 Anyone?
09-02-2015, 10:44 AM
#1
Super Member
Thread Starter
W212 E400 Anyone?
Sorry if this has been covered anywhere else, but I'm one of the new guys. I recently took delivery of a new 2015 E400 4Matic. I'm curious as to how many of these are out there and how the owners like them. I tried posting a similar question at "one of the other MB forums" and after a week had no responses. Guess my car isn't classic enough. . .
I'm not into modding, hacking the on-board systems or other extreme activities. I just want to learn all I can about my new car and find out how to use things not well covered in the user documentation.
If I understand the situation correctly, 2015 is the first year for the TT engine in the E Class in the US. I've also been told that the E400 might be about 10% of the E Class unit volume. That makes the E400 a relative rarity. Not scary-rare, just unusual enough that it might be a bit of a sleeper at the stoplight when people are expecting the old grey-haired dude (me) to be driving an E350, not the TT. (I'm used to messing with the kids in their Mustangs. The car I drove before the E400 was a long-term Lexus LS430 - 290 HP that saw redline daily.)
So. . . am I alone out here, or are there others who chose to roll the dice and give the E400 a try?
I'm not into modding, hacking the on-board systems or other extreme activities. I just want to learn all I can about my new car and find out how to use things not well covered in the user documentation.
If I understand the situation correctly, 2015 is the first year for the TT engine in the E Class in the US. I've also been told that the E400 might be about 10% of the E Class unit volume. That makes the E400 a relative rarity. Not scary-rare, just unusual enough that it might be a bit of a sleeper at the stoplight when people are expecting the old grey-haired dude (me) to be driving an E350, not the TT. (I'm used to messing with the kids in their Mustangs. The car I drove before the E400 was a long-term Lexus LS430 - 290 HP that saw redline daily.)
So. . . am I alone out here, or are there others who chose to roll the dice and give the E400 a try?
09-02-2015, 10:48 AM
#2
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2014 E550-sold 😩
2012 was the first year of the TT engine in the E class. 
Congrats on your new car.
Congrats on your new car.
09-02-2015, 11:09 AM
#3
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Thread Starter
Have I missed something? When I search for info on earlier models, all I see refers to the E400 Hybrid, which had the 3.5L NA engine. I did see that the TT engine was sold in other markets, but didn't find any reference to sales in the US until MY2015.
09-02-2015, 12:06 PM
#4
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2014 E550-sold 😩
I was just quoting your sentence. "2015 is the first year for the TT engine in the E Class in the US"
That v6 in the E400 is making it's debut, but the TT V8 came in 2012. So the first TT was 2012. I am not a fan of this new TT V6, but I hope you enjoy it.
That v6 in the E400 is making it's debut, but the TT V8 came in 2012. So the first TT was 2012. I am not a fan of this new TT V6, but I hope you enjoy it.
09-02-2015, 12:13 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
OK - I read you clearly now. TT V-8 would have been fun, but no new ones left in local dealer stock. AMG was out of the budget, hence the E400 TT.
After about 600 miles, I have to say that I'm impressed with the performance and flexibility of the little V-6, and having no regrets about giving up a slightly larger V-8 to get it. The 3.0 TT has more HP and torque than my Lexus had, and the torque comes on like a brick wall. The graph I found claims full/max torque available from 1,400 RPM up to over 5,000. It almost feels like a diesel on steroids.
Yes, the two cars (LS430 and E400) are completely different. One is a luxury sedan, the other is a compromise between sport and luxury. There isn't much difference in size (E400 is about 4 inches shorter) or weight, but the E400 out performs the LS, at the expense of some added engine and tire noise.
So, as I said, my early reactions are all positive. We will see how the saga unfolds. . .
After about 600 miles, I have to say that I'm impressed with the performance and flexibility of the little V-6, and having no regrets about giving up a slightly larger V-8 to get it. The 3.0 TT has more HP and torque than my Lexus had, and the torque comes on like a brick wall. The graph I found claims full/max torque available from 1,400 RPM up to over 5,000. It almost feels like a diesel on steroids.
Yes, the two cars (LS430 and E400) are completely different. One is a luxury sedan, the other is a compromise between sport and luxury. There isn't much difference in size (E400 is about 4 inches shorter) or weight, but the E400 out performs the LS, at the expense of some added engine and tire noise.
So, as I said, my early reactions are all positive. We will see how the saga unfolds. . .
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09-02-2015, 02:55 PM
#7
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E350
Congrats on the new E400. But I don't understand why you'd want to pay 10k more for only 27 more horses? The E550 made more sense to me... Does the E400 have more standard features than E350, maybe, don't know???
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09-02-2015, 09:18 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
I don't have the data with me now, but some of the features that are standard on the E400 are options on the E350.
The major difference (to me) between the 350 and the 400 is the (relative) mountain of torque the 400 has and the unusually low engine speed at which max torque is available. For comparison purposes, my last car was a 2001 Lexus LS430. It was about 4 inches longer than the E Class, and weighed around the same amount. That was a 4.3L V-8, with 290 HP at around 6,200 RPM and (IIRC) 275 lb-ft or torque at around 3,200 RPM. The E400 is rated at 329 HP at around the same 6,200 RPM (+/- whatever), but it has 350 lb-ft of torque at 1,400 RPM! That is quite a pile of grunt at very low speed, making the engine feel a lot more powerful than its horsepower indicates.
In terms of pure straight-line performance it shows well, too. Car and Driver tested the Lexus at 6.3 sec. zero to 60MPH, and around 14.7 sec for the 1/4 mile, at around 96 MPH through the traps. They also tested the E400 (August, 2015, Instrumented Test, available only on the web). Their results were 5.0 sec zero to 60 MPH, with the quarter mile taking 13.6 sec., with terminal speed of 104 MPH. That is pretty serious performance for a 3.0L Luxury-Sport sedan. In both measures it was around 0.5 sec slower than the E550 they tested. It may not sound as satisfying to us grey-haired dudes who grew up with V-8's and glass-packs, but it is very close in the performance. I don't know if there is much difference in handling, but the 400 may also be less front-heavy (just a guess here, though).
As I said earlier, killer, the E550 made sense to me too, but there were no more new ones around when I was shopping, and I did not want to go CPO. The E63 was too expensive, so the 400 was the only engine upgrade left in the E Class sedan series.
Maybe compared to the E63 the E400 is less exciting, but it is relative. Coming from a 14 year old Japanese Luxury Cruiser, it is still one of the better fun-to-cost balances on the market (IMHO).
The major difference (to me) between the 350 and the 400 is the (relative) mountain of torque the 400 has and the unusually low engine speed at which max torque is available. For comparison purposes, my last car was a 2001 Lexus LS430. It was about 4 inches longer than the E Class, and weighed around the same amount. That was a 4.3L V-8, with 290 HP at around 6,200 RPM and (IIRC) 275 lb-ft or torque at around 3,200 RPM. The E400 is rated at 329 HP at around the same 6,200 RPM (+/- whatever), but it has 350 lb-ft of torque at 1,400 RPM! That is quite a pile of grunt at very low speed, making the engine feel a lot more powerful than its horsepower indicates.
In terms of pure straight-line performance it shows well, too. Car and Driver tested the Lexus at 6.3 sec. zero to 60MPH, and around 14.7 sec for the 1/4 mile, at around 96 MPH through the traps. They also tested the E400 (August, 2015, Instrumented Test, available only on the web). Their results were 5.0 sec zero to 60 MPH, with the quarter mile taking 13.6 sec., with terminal speed of 104 MPH. That is pretty serious performance for a 3.0L Luxury-Sport sedan. In both measures it was around 0.5 sec slower than the E550 they tested. It may not sound as satisfying to us grey-haired dudes who grew up with V-8's and glass-packs, but it is very close in the performance. I don't know if there is much difference in handling, but the 400 may also be less front-heavy (just a guess here, though).
As I said earlier, killer, the E550 made sense to me too, but there were no more new ones around when I was shopping, and I did not want to go CPO. The E63 was too expensive, so the 400 was the only engine upgrade left in the E Class sedan series.
Maybe compared to the E63 the E400 is less exciting, but it is relative. Coming from a 14 year old Japanese Luxury Cruiser, it is still one of the better fun-to-cost balances on the market (IMHO).
09-02-2015, 10:02 PM
#10
Super Member
I don't have the data with me now, but some of the features that are standard on the E400 are options on the E350.
The major difference (to me) between the 350 and the 400 is the (relative) mountain of torque the 400 has and the unusually low engine speed at which max torque is available. For comparison purposes, my last car was a 2001 Lexus LS430. It was about 4 inches longer than the E Class, and weighed around the same amount. That was a 4.3L V-8, with 290 HP at around 6,200 RPM and (IIRC) 275 lb-ft or torque at around 3,200 RPM. The E400 is rated at 329 HP at around the same 6,200 RPM (+/- whatever), but it has 350 lb-ft of torque at 1,400 RPM! That is quite a pile of grunt at very low speed, making the engine feel a lot more powerful than its horsepower indicates.
In terms of pure straight-line performance it shows well, too. Car and Driver tested the Lexus at 6.3 sec. zero to 60MPH, and around 14.7 sec for the 1/4 mile, at around 96 MPH through the traps. They also tested the E400 (August, 2015, Instrumented Test, available only on the web). Their results were 5.0 sec zero to 60 MPH, with the quarter mile taking 13.6 sec., with terminal speed of 104 MPH. That is pretty serious performance for a 3.0L Luxury-Sport sedan. In both measures it was around 0.5 sec slower than the E550 they tested. It may not sound as satisfying to us grey-haired dudes who grew up with V-8's and glass-packs, but it is very close in the performance. I don't know if there is much difference in handling, but the 400 may also be less front-heavy (just a guess here, though).
As I said earlier, killer, the E550 made sense to me too, but there were no more new ones around when I was shopping, and I did not want to go CPO. The E63 was too expensive, so the 400 was the only engine upgrade left in the E Class sedan series.
Maybe compared to the E63 the E400 is less exciting, but it is relative. Coming from a 14 year old Japanese Luxury Cruiser, it is still one of the better fun-to-cost balances on the market (IMHO).
The major difference (to me) between the 350 and the 400 is the (relative) mountain of torque the 400 has and the unusually low engine speed at which max torque is available. For comparison purposes, my last car was a 2001 Lexus LS430. It was about 4 inches longer than the E Class, and weighed around the same amount. That was a 4.3L V-8, with 290 HP at around 6,200 RPM and (IIRC) 275 lb-ft or torque at around 3,200 RPM. The E400 is rated at 329 HP at around the same 6,200 RPM (+/- whatever), but it has 350 lb-ft of torque at 1,400 RPM! That is quite a pile of grunt at very low speed, making the engine feel a lot more powerful than its horsepower indicates.
In terms of pure straight-line performance it shows well, too. Car and Driver tested the Lexus at 6.3 sec. zero to 60MPH, and around 14.7 sec for the 1/4 mile, at around 96 MPH through the traps. They also tested the E400 (August, 2015, Instrumented Test, available only on the web). Their results were 5.0 sec zero to 60 MPH, with the quarter mile taking 13.6 sec., with terminal speed of 104 MPH. That is pretty serious performance for a 3.0L Luxury-Sport sedan. In both measures it was around 0.5 sec slower than the E550 they tested. It may not sound as satisfying to us grey-haired dudes who grew up with V-8's and glass-packs, but it is very close in the performance. I don't know if there is much difference in handling, but the 400 may also be less front-heavy (just a guess here, though).
As I said earlier, killer, the E550 made sense to me too, but there were no more new ones around when I was shopping, and I did not want to go CPO. The E63 was too expensive, so the 400 was the only engine upgrade left in the E Class sedan series.
Maybe compared to the E63 the E400 is less exciting, but it is relative. Coming from a 14 year old Japanese Luxury Cruiser, it is still one of the better fun-to-cost balances on the market (IMHO).
09-02-2015, 10:32 PM
#11
Senior Member
I'm somewhat curious what kind of tuning potential the E400 has as most turbo engines have more power available with simple and relatively inexpensive mods.
Check out the E Class Instagram account linked below
09-02-2015, 10:38 PM
#12
Senior Member
Looks to me like the E400 gets the same other upgrades that the E550 got such as Leather seats (instead of MBtex), Cooled seats, Keyless Go split folding rear seats and lane keeping package standard.
Last edited by Diamond White W212; 09-02-2015 at 10:41 PM.
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StuttgartHorses (04-05-2020)
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09-03-2015, 08:38 AM
#14
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Thread Starter
I have seen ads for several brands of tuner chips for the 400, and all seem to claim that there is a lot more power available at little to no risk to the driveline. It is tempting, but I will wait until others have paved the way. When my car is at stake, I'm rarely the first to try things.
BTW, my 400 is not a female. "His" demeanor definitely is masculine in nature. I've nicknamed him "Gonzo." (Gonzo is a muppet. He is kind of dark blue-grey in color, his nose is longer than his tail, and he will do some really WILD stuff if you push him. Kinda' fits.)
09-03-2015, 10:04 AM
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2010 E550 P2 w/AMG Sport Package + Pano, 2015 Nissan Pathfinder
Gonzo....I love it lol. I've yet to think of a name for my vehicle, something along those lines seems cool though. Congrats on the new ride and don't be a speed demon wink wink
09-03-2015, 07:12 PM
#17
Member
4-Matic Power all around
The E-400 TT-s seem to have a lot going for them in both power and comfort. What I may have missed or was not mentioned is that the power and torque is delivered to all four wheels, did the Lexus tested have AWD, to me the test spec's with AWD in itself shows that Gonzo is going to be red lined a lot, enjoy him.
09-04-2015, 08:45 AM
#19
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Thread Starter
Thanks for all the greetings and the welcome, everyone!
aaacsdai - I don't think the Lexus tested was AWD, as that option was not available until the next model (LS460) came out in 2006. If their LS430 was like mine, with the proper tires, wheelspin was not an issue. Just plant the throttle into the carpet and it launched briskly with only the right hint of spin and fish-tail. The MB tested by Car and Driver was definitely AWD.
So far, with only about 700 miles on the clock, Gonzo hasn't been near redline. I've been keeping things cool, below about 4,000 RPM, and primarily in Economy mode. It seems that when you press the 'S' button ("silly?"), he becomes an entirely different animal - one who (which?) will be a lot of fun to play with.
I think that when a few more of these E400 TT's are out there, people will begin to realize that they are the sleepers of the line. Like most guys of my generation, I always felt that the secret was horsepower. Now I'm having more fun with all that torque, from just off-idle to near redline. I guess even us old dogs can learn new things. . .
P.S. One of these days I'll have to set up a hosting account so I can post photos. Don't have one right now.
aaacsdai - I don't think the Lexus tested was AWD, as that option was not available until the next model (LS460) came out in 2006. If their LS430 was like mine, with the proper tires, wheelspin was not an issue. Just plant the throttle into the carpet and it launched briskly with only the right hint of spin and fish-tail. The MB tested by Car and Driver was definitely AWD.
So far, with only about 700 miles on the clock, Gonzo hasn't been near redline. I've been keeping things cool, below about 4,000 RPM, and primarily in Economy mode. It seems that when you press the 'S' button ("silly?"), he becomes an entirely different animal - one who (which?) will be a lot of fun to play with.
I think that when a few more of these E400 TT's are out there, people will begin to realize that they are the sleepers of the line. Like most guys of my generation, I always felt that the secret was horsepower. Now I'm having more fun with all that torque, from just off-idle to near redline. I guess even us old dogs can learn new things. . .
P.S. One of these days I'll have to set up a hosting account so I can post photos. Don't have one right now.
Last edited by SteveE400; 09-04-2015 at 08:47 AM. Reason: Added post script.
09-05-2015, 12:36 PM
#21
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2014 E63S; AMS 100 octane ecu tune; edok tcu tune; BB intakes; dyno tuned
Thanks for all the greetings and the welcome, everyone!
aaacsdai - I don't think the Lexus tested was AWD, as that option was not available until the next model (LS460) came out in 2006. If their LS430 was like mine, with the proper tires, wheelspin was not an issue. Just plant the throttle into the carpet and it launched briskly with only the right hint of spin and fish-tail. The MB tested by Car and Driver was definitely AWD.
So far, with only about 700 miles on the clock, Gonzo hasn't been near redline. I've been keeping things cool, below about 4,000 RPM, and primarily in Economy mode. It seems that when you press the 'S' button ("silly?"), he becomes an entirely different animal - one who (which?) will be a lot of fun to play with.
I think that when a few more of these E400 TT's are out there, people will begin to realize that they are the sleepers of the line. Like most guys of my generation, I always felt that the secret was horsepower. Now I'm having more fun with all that torque, from just off-idle to near redline. I guess even us old dogs can learn new things. . .
P.S. One of these days I'll have to set up a hosting account so I can post photos. Don't have one right now.
aaacsdai - I don't think the Lexus tested was AWD, as that option was not available until the next model (LS460) came out in 2006. If their LS430 was like mine, with the proper tires, wheelspin was not an issue. Just plant the throttle into the carpet and it launched briskly with only the right hint of spin and fish-tail. The MB tested by Car and Driver was definitely AWD.
So far, with only about 700 miles on the clock, Gonzo hasn't been near redline. I've been keeping things cool, below about 4,000 RPM, and primarily in Economy mode. It seems that when you press the 'S' button ("silly?"), he becomes an entirely different animal - one who (which?) will be a lot of fun to play with.
I think that when a few more of these E400 TT's are out there, people will begin to realize that they are the sleepers of the line. Like most guys of my generation, I always felt that the secret was horsepower. Now I'm having more fun with all that torque, from just off-idle to near redline. I guess even us old dogs can learn new things. . .
P.S. One of these days I'll have to set up a hosting account so I can post photos. Don't have one right now.
09-05-2015, 02:37 PM
#22
Super Member
I'm continually impressed at how much acceleration I get from my W212 4.7L biturbo with so little throttle input ... the flood of torque at low rpm's surges the car forward without having to drop a couple of gears to bring the revs up.
With the tranny in E mode, I frequently finding myself cruising in 6th or 7th gear barely turning 1-1.5K rpm's. The early torque peak means the tranny doesn't sweat it. If I have to accelerate a bit, the car knows the torque will deliver the necessary speed without having to wake up the tranny.
Trade-off's? Exceedingly little turbo lag except when it's cold, but that only lasts ~20sec or less and generally only from a dead stop. I'm getting 21.5 hand-calculated mpg from my 402hp/443tq that's driving all 4 wheels all the time. My out going ~290hp V8 Lexus GS430 delivered the same mpg, but only a shadow of the Merc's performance and RWD that wasn't 4-season ready. I see no penalties w/my biturbo E550!
While I think Tesla (or generically speaking "high-performance power from batteries" / Volt and Leaf need not apply) is the future for autodom, turbos are a nice stepping stone in the mid-term. It's a brave new world where turbos appear to be effectively replacing displacement. Remember the old adage there's no replacement for displacement? Turbos aren't just fast, they can tow heavy loads too. AMG isn't the only one on the turbo bandwagon. Ford is all in with its EcoBoost from its entry-level Fiesta, its newest Raptor monster truck and now its new world-beating GT.
However, there's a common knock on forced induction that it appears many (some?) new autos are unable to match the published mpg in the real-world. It's no surprise that auto makers "game" their products to eek out as much mpg as possible in the tests. In the real-world, the vast majority of us are nowhere as patient and pay the price at the pump. My E is good to go here, but then again I'm gaining an enviable amount of performance and awd traction without getting CTS-V or Hemi levels of fuel economy.
P.S. Congrats on your new E400! Don't count on it ever becoming commonplace. Read the "why is the E550 so rare" thread because I think most (all?) of the same conclusions will keep your car a rare bird. Another reason to debadge it, but I digress...
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StuttgartHorses (04-05-2020)
10-17-2015, 10:15 AM
#24
Hi Steve;
Just picked up my '15 E400 a week ago after trading in my '03 E500 which had almost 170K miles. While I do miss the grunt of my old V8, i'm super surprised at the amount of power this little BT 3.0L is willing to provide; although I'm still in the break-in period and have not had the opportunity to really lay into the accelerator.
Very much surprised at initial MPG where a combo city/hwy is allowing a respectable 25+.
I have noticed an engine "gurgle" in E mode with easy/moderate acceleration right between the 1,500 and 2,250 rpm area. Mechanic heard the same thing during a drive with me as well. We took another '15 for a drive and I was able to re-produce the same, so I'm thinking it is a non-issue.
Have you noticed the same or similar?
-chuck.
Just picked up my '15 E400 a week ago after trading in my '03 E500 which had almost 170K miles. While I do miss the grunt of my old V8, i'm super surprised at the amount of power this little BT 3.0L is willing to provide; although I'm still in the break-in period and have not had the opportunity to really lay into the accelerator.
Very much surprised at initial MPG where a combo city/hwy is allowing a respectable 25+.
I have noticed an engine "gurgle" in E mode with easy/moderate acceleration right between the 1,500 and 2,250 rpm area. Mechanic heard the same thing during a drive with me as well. We took another '15 for a drive and I was able to re-produce the same, so I'm thinking it is a non-issue.
Have you noticed the same or similar?
-chuck.
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StuttgartHorses (04-05-2020)
10-19-2015, 08:39 AM
#25
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Thread Starter
Hi, Chuck;
Welcome to the new world order of turbocharged smaller-displacement engines. I, too, was happily surprised at the amount of "grunt" the 3.0L BT provides, and have been having a great time driving it. It is quite a bit faster than the 4.3L V-8 I had in the LS430.
I think I hear the same sounds you do, but I didn't think of it as a "gurgling" sound. I thought of it as "exhaust burble." Since I've named the car Gonzo, I just think of it as Gonzo muttering under his breath. BTW, if you really "get on it" it sounds different. To me, under hard throttle it sounds like any other 6-cylinder of days past, it just goes much faster.
Since I'm now over 2,000 miles on the clock, I've had the opportunity to push the car a bit harder. It is a real surprise to almost everyone off the line. As long as it is in Sport mode, it launches quite smartly, with no tire-screaming drama. It just goes. On the highway, it moves from 80 to 100 MPH in just a few clicks, with no drama there either. I think what I've been enjoying most about the engine is that it has just a ton of torque from right above idle about to redline. That sure makes it fun to drive.
Peter - I haven't forgotten about posting a picture. I'm waiting to be somewhere I can shoot photos when the weather is nice enough and the car is clean. With the periodic sprinkles and the dust storms where I work, that hasn't been easy.
My gas mileage around town isn't much better than the Lexus was. With the Lex I averaged about 18 MPG. With the E400 I'm about 19 to 20. I haven't had the chance to run out a full tank on the highway to see how that goes, but from the mixed mode driving I've done I do expect it to be up in the upper 20's. Quite good for a sporty/performance sedan.
Welcome to the new world order of turbocharged smaller-displacement engines. I, too, was happily surprised at the amount of "grunt" the 3.0L BT provides, and have been having a great time driving it. It is quite a bit faster than the 4.3L V-8 I had in the LS430.
I think I hear the same sounds you do, but I didn't think of it as a "gurgling" sound. I thought of it as "exhaust burble." Since I've named the car Gonzo, I just think of it as Gonzo muttering under his breath. BTW, if you really "get on it" it sounds different. To me, under hard throttle it sounds like any other 6-cylinder of days past, it just goes much faster.
Since I'm now over 2,000 miles on the clock, I've had the opportunity to push the car a bit harder. It is a real surprise to almost everyone off the line. As long as it is in Sport mode, it launches quite smartly, with no tire-screaming drama. It just goes. On the highway, it moves from 80 to 100 MPH in just a few clicks, with no drama there either. I think what I've been enjoying most about the engine is that it has just a ton of torque from right above idle about to redline. That sure makes it fun to drive.
Peter - I haven't forgotten about posting a picture. I'm waiting to be somewhere I can shoot photos when the weather is nice enough and the car is clean. With the periodic sprinkles and the dust storms where I work, that hasn't been easy.
My gas mileage around town isn't much better than the Lexus was. With the Lex I averaged about 18 MPG. With the E400 I'm about 19 to 20. I haven't had the chance to run out a full tank on the highway to see how that goes, but from the mixed mode driving I've done I do expect it to be up in the upper 20's. Quite good for a sporty/performance sedan.
