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That really stinks. I know you mentioned a lose ground, and that could still be it. I am not sure how many grounds the car has, but there are generally several. Sorry, man. ugh.
That really stinks. I know you mentioned a lose ground, and that could still be it. I am not sure how many grounds the car has, but there are generally several. Sorry, man. ugh.
And here i thought I was such a great internet detective with the electrolyte sloshing off the plates. This is one for the ages. Yes, check the grounds. Seems unlikely, but when you've eliminated all the rest of the possibilities, whatever remains, however improbable, is the likely culprit. Of course the biggest ground is the neg battery cable. These can rot internally without any outward sign of deterioration. With the car running, in Park, foot brake on, find the neg cable and pull on it, wiggle it, or anything to see if the engine stutters. Have the headlights on so you can see if they dim momentarily while you mess with the cable. If nothing, try the pos cable as the alt needs the battery in the circuit to function properly. Good luck (and stop reading what I type).....
And here i thought I was such a great internet detective with the electrolyte sloshing off the plates. This is one for the ages. Yes, check the grounds. Seems unlikely, but when you've eliminated all the rest of the possibilities, whatever remains, however improbable, is the likely culprit. Of course the biggest ground is the neg battery cable. These can rot internally without any outward sign of deterioration. With the car running, in Park, foot brake on, find the neg cable and pull on it, wiggle it, or anything to see if the engine stutters. Have the headlights on so you can see if they dim momentarily while you mess with the cable. If nothing, try the pos cable as the alt needs the battery in the circuit to function properly. Good luck (and stop reading what I type).....
"My car very recently started some bizarre issues only when I take a corner sharply (pulling into office parking lot from road that has 50 mph speed limit, highway exit cloverleaf ramps, etc). I get the ESC fault, adaptive headlight faults most frequently, also occasionally ABS, etc, the cluster resets, I feel the power steering kick off briefly, as does COMAND and my radar detector. As soon as i'm back on the gas, it all comes back to life. Sometimes the warning indicators stick around until the car has been restarted."
This symptom is what has to be looked at. "G" forces are at work. When you turn into the parking lot, is it a right turn or left? Could the batt be loose, i.e not completely tightened down? If so, could one of the batt terminals touch some part of the car when hard cornering? Grasping at straws....
"My car very recently started some bizarre issues only when I take a corner sharply (pulling into office parking lot from road that has 50 mph speed limit, highway exit cloverleaf ramps, etc). I get the ESC fault, adaptive headlight faults most frequently, also occasionally ABS, etc, the cluster resets, I feel the power steering kick off briefly, as does COMAND and my radar detector. As soon as i'm back on the gas, it all comes back to life. Sometimes the warning indicators stick around until the car has been restarted."
This symptom is what has to be looked at. "G" forces are at work. When you turn into the parking lot, is it a right turn or left? Could the batt be loose, i.e not completely tightened down? If so, could one of the batt terminals touch some part of the car when hard cornering? Grasping at straws....
I've been turning right. The codes are all over the place and in almost every system. They lead in my opinion to the CAN harness. I'm guessing there is a short in the harness somewhere and it gets pinched as the car corners and the frame flexes. It's going to be a ***** to track down. I'll report. Back as I get through it
I spent the day running through the car. I started with going through the wiring for both my radar detector and aftermarket amp/sub. I found that if I wiggled the alligator clamp that tapped into power for the radar detector it would shut off. Pretty sure it was tied to a constant on wire leading to the small footwell light bulb. I'm thinking this is unlikely to be it. I also wiggled every various harness in the engine bay and to the headlight's without the ability to replicate the issue. I did the same with the harnesses in the wheel wells that could be reached without pulling the covers or lifting the car. Also no luck.
One thing I noticed when I was wrapping up and hadn't thought of, there has been condensation in the rear right tail light since around the same time this started happening (give or take as I didn't pay that close of attention, but was another "new" issue in a recent cascade).
Tonight after spending a few hours clay barring the hood and fender from some deadbeat neighbors spray paint overspray, I realized there is a touch of standing water (1/4") in the rear right tail light. I wonder if when I corner (most commonly occirance is on long clover leaf turns on the highway) it is getting into something in the tail light or spilling onto another module and causing a temporary short? I haven't blown a fuse to this point.
Just an idea.... hopefully it could trigger the memory of someone with more knowledge than me!
Regardless, I want to figure out how to drain and re seal this lamp as the condensation really bothers me....
EDIT: I pulled the tail light, the bottom drivers side corner of the corner tail light is open to the internals. There are several circuit boards in the forward middle part of the housing. Water can drain through a hole to the inside of the car. This shows the water can hit these boards. The tail light housing is dehydrating in the oven right now and will get a coat of rtv around the perimeter before reinstallation. I have no clue if these circuit boards are tied in to the CAN network or if this is a coincidence as well.... I'd be curious to hear if I short in this location could effect so many other systems in the car without blowing a fuse. For now, I'm just thankful the car did not fry the tail light and require a replacement, yet.
Last edited by Abrown3mtg; 10-03-2016 at 12:31 AM.
I spent the day running through the car. I started with going through the wiring for both my radar detector and aftermarket amp/sub. I found that if I wiggled the alligator clamp that tapped into power for the radar detector it would shut off. Pretty sure it was tied to a constant on wire leading to the small footwell light bulb. I'm thinking this is unlikely to be it. I also wiggled every various harness in the engine bay and to the headlight's without the ability to replicate the issue. I did the same with the harnesses in the wheel wells that could be reached without pulling the covers or lifting the car. Also no luck.
One thing I noticed when I was wrapping up and hadn't thought of, there has been condensation in the rear right tail light since around the same time this started happening (give or take as I didn't pay that close of attention, but was another "new" issue in a recent cascade).
Tonight after spending a few hours clay barring the hood and fender from some deadbeat neighbors spray paint overspray, I realized there is a touch of standing water (1/4") in the rear right tail light. I wonder if when I corner (most commonly occirance is on long clover leaf turns on the highway) it is getting into something in the tail light or spilling onto another module and causing a temporary short? I haven't blown a fuse to this point.
Just an idea.... hopefully it could trigger the memory of someone with more knowledge than me!
Regardless, I want to figure out how to drain and re seal this lamp as the condensation really bothers me....
EDIT: I pulled the tail light, the bottom drivers side corner of the corner tail light is open to the internals. There are several circuit boards in the forward middle part of the housing. Water can drain through a hole to the inside of the car. This shows the water can hit these boards. The tail light housing is dehydrating in the oven right now and will get a coat of rtv around the perimeter before reinstallation. I have no clue if these circuit boards are tied in to the CAN network or if this is a coincidence as well.... I'd be curious to hear if I short in this location could effect so many other systems in the car without blowing a fuse. For now, I'm just thankful the car did not fry the tail light and require a replacement, yet.
it is the outter part of the tail lights right? i got a set of inner ones.. could of let you have th if needed...
so you gonna find out tomorrow morning if fixing that helped or not?
it is the outter part of the tail lights right? i got a set of inner ones.. could of let you have th if needed...
so you gonna find out tomorrow morning if fixing that helped or not?
I appreciate the offer, but yes, it is the larger/outer passenger side housing. I baked it for an hour or 2 to removed the moisture (left a few internal water spots I'm not thrilled about, but they aren't bad).
I followed that up with a full perimeter coat of RTV along the seam of the housing. It is sitting on the table overnight and I will pop it back in the car tomorrow morning. After having also further securing the wire for the radar detector, the shorting hasn't occurred, but I haven't been on one of the long 270 turns to really see yet. With rain coming in again on Tuesday + my work schedule tomorrow + my impatience and intolerance for anything wrong with my car, I tackled it late night style in the parking lot .
If this isn't it, I'm going to have to start checking through the can network module by module and see if there is a short in one of the relating to steering or suspension leveling.... If no luck there, trace the wiring to and from the Sam modules. No luck there? Take the local stealers hip service advisor that's a mutual friend out for beers . I'm feeling 60/40-70/30ish on the potential this may have in the equation..... Perhaps a bit better odds?
I appreciate the offer, but yes, it is the larger/outer passenger side housing. I baked it for an hour or 2 to removed the moisture (left a few internal water spots I'm not thrilled about, but they aren't bad).
I followed that up with a full perimeter coat of RTV along the seam of the housing. It is sitting on the table overnight and I will pop it back in the car tomorrow morning. After having also further securing the wire for the radar detector, the shorting hasn't occurred, but I haven't been on one of the long 270 turns to really see yet. With rain coming in again on Tuesday + my work schedule tomorrow + my impatience and intolerance for anything wrong with my car, I tackled it late night style in the parking lot .
If this isn't it, I'm going to have to start checking through the can network module by module and see if there is a short in one of the relating to steering or suspension leveling.... If no luck there, trace the wiring to and from the Sam modules. No luck there? Take the local stealers hip service advisor that's a mutual friend out for beers . I'm feeling 60/40-70/30ish on the potential this may have in the equation..... Perhaps a bit better odds?
Any predictions before I report back?
that is most likely it , cuz water probably was shorting electronics through tail lights , and if there was more water it could lead to a much worse issues than what you have now.
funny observation - like 6 months ago i found a dead bug inside of one of my tail light (smaller inner one on the trunk) makes me wonder how it got there , and after what you just said about the water part in your tail light makes me wonder what kinda quality parts and material MB uses now days...
Hmmm. Guess I won't be transferring my predictions to any powerball tickets this week. Super bummer for you. Sorry
All in all, every suggestion in this thread has been incredibly helpful. It has covered an array of issues that are not "obvious" and 9 times out of 10 would be a likely overlooked culprit for someone else that could find this thread if having similar issues.
Does anyone here that is familiar with STAR know if there is a way to either live monitor/record the cars computer, or isolated which system is the first to fault/live test them and try to narrow what is likely the highest potential for what/where is the origin of the short?
Does anyone know the location of the can bus junction in the car? (Chassis)
I want to check through the wiring for corrosion, also thinking its time to check the rear SAM module and connections for any corrosion. I'm trying to avoid throwing money and parts at it, and both of these seem unlikely due to the limited circumstances this occurs. But with moisture in the rear light being near the SAM, I suppose it's possible? I simply can not see the likelihood of a g force related fault in that module though.
Also, is the ground wire to the bulb in the footwell connected into the can bus? That's where I'd tapped ground for the radar detector. As it was one of the clamps that bite into the wire, I'm going to splice and solder that point and re locate the ground elsewhere. (As mentioned, it's been about a year since installation, but I'm grasping at straws at this point and trying to avoid the stealership (and them throwing parts at it at an even higher cost that I could)
Last edited by Abrown3mtg; 10-04-2016 at 03:11 AM.
I haven't had much time to continue this search. A friend of mine that owns a shop had an interesting idea. His thought is to simply splice in new CAN network wires inbetween all of the modules vs trying to find a potential short. I am curious if there is a way to monitor the network itself in a way that would isolate wiring from a module or if this seems like a logical approach?
If someone has another idea that proves a fix, I will award then via PayPal
I haven't had much time to continue this search. A friend of mine that owns a shop had an interesting idea. His thought is to simply splice in new CAN network wires inbetween all of the modules vs trying to find a potential short. I am curious if there is a way to monitor the network itself in a way that would isolate wiring from a module or if this seems like a logical approach?
If someone has another idea that proves a fix, I will award then via PayPal
that sounds like a lot of work , and you gotta have some skills and experience doing this kinda experiments. because it looks not so simple to be honest.
did you take it to a dealer yet? or any other indy shops (may get some suggestions or opinions)
that sounds like a lot of work , and you gotta have some skills and experience doing this kinda experiments. because it looks not so simple to be honest.
did you take it to a dealer yet? or any other indy shops (may get some suggestions or opinions)
The friend that suggested that route owns an indy shop.
I spoke with another friend (also indy shop owner) and he gave me a few ideas about monitoring the can network while replicating the problem but doubted it would yield much or isolate the problem.
Assuming I can sort out the locations of all the modules and the run of the wires, splicing in the segments is easy. Likely MUCH easier than trying to find a small section that is intermittently shorting (if that is in fact even the problem). I would just hate to have done this if the problem lies elsewhere.
One other thought was a question one of them asked me (if the car has an electronic steering gear, which although unlikely, while under load theoretically could short).
At any rate this one is going to take a lot of time, money, or both to have fixed. I've been just gritting my teeth and avoiding the long turns/taking them way slower for the time being...
The friend that suggested that route owns an indy shop.
I spoke with another friend (also indy shop owner) and he gave me a few ideas about monitoring the can network while replicating the problem but doubted it would yield much or isolate the problem.
Assuming I can sort out the locations of all the modules and the run of the wires, splicing in the segments is easy. Likely MUCH easier than trying to find a small section that is intermittently shorting (if that is in fact even the problem). I would just hate to have done this if the problem lies elsewhere.
One other thought was a question one of them asked me (if the car has an electronic steering gear, which although unlikely, while under load theoretically could short).
At any rate this one is going to take a lot of time, money, or both to have fixed. I've been just gritting my teeth and avoiding the long turns/taking them way slower for the time being...
in my opinion i wouldnt think its a shortage issue , the problem is either a faulty CAN module/unit
or
might be the steering unit/steering column.
highly doubt a wire would just brake off somehow and create a shortage.
just my opinion. i still hope ull find it and fix it asap.
If it really was a wiring issue, why does getting on the gas bring it back to life? And why does it only happen when cornering at high speed? Sorry OP but it just seems odd that lateral g force is the cause of an electrical/wiring issue unless that force causes issues with the drive belt and/or alternator pulley that creates a drop in voltage. Do you a way of monitoring the voltage while driving to see what happens when cornering?
Many years ago I was driving around with a failing alternator in a Honda and the car would start to stall when the power dropped and revving the engine would get the alternator output to power the car until I could get out of traffic. Still not an issue effected by cornering, but your issue just feels like an overall electrical system issue and the warnings you are getting are just symptoms of a drop in voltage.
If it really was a wiring issue, why does getting on the gas bring it back to life? And why does it only happen when cornering at high speed? Sorry OP but it just seems odd that lateral g force is the cause of an electrical/wiring issue unless that force causes issues with the drive belt and/or alternator pulley that creates a drop in voltage. Do you a way of monitoring the voltage while driving to see what happens when cornering?
Many years ago I was driving around with a failing alternator in a Honda and the car would start to stall when the power dropped and revving the engine would get the alternator output to power the car until I could get out of traffic. Still not an issue effected by cornering, but your issue just feels like an overall electrical system issue and the warnings you are getting are just symptoms of a drop in voltage.
If it really was a wiring issue, why does getting on the gas bring it back to life? And why does it only happen when cornering at high speed? Sorry OP but it just seems odd that lateral g force is the cause of an electrical/wiring issue unless that force causes issues with the drive belt and/or alternator pulley that creates a drop in voltage. Do you a way of monitoring the voltage while driving to see what happens when cornering?
Many years ago I was driving around with a failing alternator in a Honda and the car would start to stall when the power dropped and revving the engine would get the alternator output to power the car until I could get out of traffic. Still not an issue effected by cornering, but your issue just feels like an overall electrical system issue and the warnings you are getting are just symptoms of a drop in voltage.
something similar to what i said before too , might be the v-belt\pulley issue etc..
i know there are many possibilities but it aint no shortage indeed.
09-30-2016, 01:15 PM
. This isn't going to be fun....
.
