calisnow

Hey folks,

I am in Los Angeles and own a 2016 Model S 70D. Mercedes and Tesla seem to be the leaders in autonomous driving technology - and I know many of us on the Tesla forums are eager to see how the 2017 E class performs.

As for Tesla on the roads here in Los Angeles, the performance of the system in marginal conditions (high glare, poor lane markings, etc.) has been slowly but surely improving over the months since it was released last October via firmware updates. Nobody is exactly sure how Tesla is accomplishing this (and how much, if at all, Mobileye is involved in the gradual improvements - Tesla uses EyeQ3 + its own secret sauce for machine learning), but Elon Musk claims it is a combination of neural network machine learning, and high precision maps being gradually built by owner cars sending data back to Tesla HQ.

Mercedes is very quiet about its r&d process - from what we can gather they have a very deep internal team and have been working for many, many years on this tech. They seem to have a lot of proprietary tech and, aside from their alliance with Audi to buy Nokia's mapping division, to have gone it alone with proprietary tech and chips.

And of course the 2017 E class will have more cameras and radar systems than the current Teslas do - and have some capabilities our cars will never have (cross traffic detection, seeing traffic coming up from behind, etc.).

But we are curious as to whether Benz has got Tesla beat in conditions the cars can both handle - such as lane keeping on highways.

As to whether or not the 2017 E class will benefit from machine learning over time and receive over the air firmware updates, Mercedes has not said publicly.

In any case - if anybody here is getting a W213 as soon as it launches and would be up for doing some comparison testing on marginal roads here in California please get in touch. You can also find me at Tesla Motors Club forums under the same screen name.

It would be fun to do something similar to a test done a few months ago by one of the car magazines where they compared BMW vs Tesla vs Benz on a 20 mile loop in Michigan of poor roads - and then did a comparison count of how many times each car made errors.

Exciting times!

expresspotato

Drive Pilot only works for 2 minutes at a time. I don't think it can handle merging traffic, off raps or low speed traffic. Online videos show it doesn't do non-highways well at all and almost crashed within a few minutes. There really is no comparison to a Tesla. Its only a class 3 according to my own list of self driving classes:

- Class 1: Basic adaptive cruise control without low speed follow and lane keep as a disparate system. Will only stay in the lane for brief periods of time < 10 sec (Ford, Toyota)
- Class 2: Adaptive cruise with low speed follow, will stay in lanes without intervention on straightaways (Infinity Q50)
- Class 3: Drive Pilot: Low speed follow, signage aware, lane change assist
- Class 4: Tesla Auto Pilot includes exists and off ramps, can drive continuously for hours
- Class 5: Fully autonomous from A to B, including pedestrian avoidance, parking and understanding of intersections, stop signs, cyclists etc.

calisnow

Hi Express - yes you're right about the existing Drive Pilot but the one which debuts in the 2017 MBZ E-Class is a whole new generation and is supposedly extremely improved over the old one.

expresspotato

Hi Calisnow - yes its completely redesigned to make use of a higher speed car network, the old one was too slow for this new technology. Even the S-Class is just getting it later this year.

But the fact still remains, 2 minutes maximum self driving.

white_raven0

See review:
http://mashable.com/2016/06/16/2017-.../#1nsq2lRhBOqC


Basically it's not as good as Tesla autopilot in its ability to keep the car in the lane, let alone in the center of lane. Moreover there is a short time limit.


Moreover, this test car probably has 70+k MSRP...


I personally feel a Tesla Model S 75D is of so much better value with better tech and vastly superior driving dynamics compared to this 4-banger E class.

expresspotato

Yikes. So in all honesty drive pilot isn't much better than simple lane keep and radar cruse control.

60 second at a time? That's a hard sell for me. You know if there was even the assumption of updates every 3-6 months to improve the thing, granted I would accept that. But these are Mercedes-Benz and the software needs to be updated at the dealer and some aren't willing to just flash your car with no issues. So you get the car you bought, no future in sight. Delaying my purchase for another year or two absolutely.

This is the new world we're entering into and MB is clearly playing catch up.

"I'll admit, Steering Pilot suddenly cutting out without warning irked me."

"I felt disheartened because Mercedes' new suite of semi-autonomous safety tech, Drive Pilot, simply didn't feel as robust as Tesla's Autopilot that I had tested on the very same stretch of freeways some eight months before."

"On a straight, well-marked freeway, following traffic ahead, the system worked great. However, as soon as lane markings on either side became too hard to read or simply dropped away, Steering Pilot would cut out — sans warning."

No over the air updates for something as sophisticated as a semi-autonomous car that really is just a car with lane keep and radar cruise control is a no go.

thefisch

I hope Tesla keeps updating their cars and other manufacturers take note of that and follow.

expresspotato

Me too how many times do they simply update the software in cars and problems go away and new features are added.

This whole that's the software it came with shpeal is getting old.

stealth.pilot

Agree. Tesla is going to do for automotive software and innovation what Lexus did for luxury car warranties and dealer experience.

stealth.pilot

Its a bit better than that. It cuts off after two minutes if you have no hand on the wheel. But with hands on the wheel it will steer. I sometimes use it if I need to send a text from my phone or look something up on Yelp while on highway. I have driven for 10 minutes with drive pilot in our C300 - one hand on wheel, one hand using my phone. It stays in lane, manages distance to car ahead, it sometimes drifts close to the line, but since it has side impact prevention it automatically pulls back to center if another car is there. Felt effective for this purpose to me, though I wouldn't use it for any more than staying in lane on a highway.

bugelrex

First tesla autopilot death reported today. Driver was essentially decapitated by a tractor trailer. I can see why MB is taking a very cautious approach and not allowing the driver to fall into a false sense of security

TacoTuesday

Based on the Mashable article, the Mercedes approach is probably the safer way to go (for now). The driver is still the ultimate safety feature of the car. The technology is there to enhance their decision making.

MTrauman

My understanding is (my understanding is becoming clearer with the unfortunate Tesla owner's death) that the Tesla AutoPilot feature is in BETA TEST mode while Tesla owners have been comparing their AutoPilot with the S Class features and the new E Class features. They are not comparable as Tesla is spending less on R&D by using their owners as test subjects.


I am glad MB is taking a slower approach as I was simply waiting for something like this accident to help study further the speed that driverless technology is being brought to market especially since Tesla is "pushing" hard to reinvent the automobile.

thefisch

Here are some articles with more info on crash circumstances.
https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tragic-loss
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/30/tech...topilot-death/

While I don't have distronic on my car, I can't imagine not taking control of the car in this situation.

fallen

Appears you guys all dislike driving...
Why not ride a bus or Uber and give the roads to us who really enjoy driving?

kotsumu

I found this article online that states that the full autonomous feature of drive pilot is a function that needs to be "enabled".

Article link: http://www.techradar.com/us/news/car...-pilot-1324027

Although I wouldn't know if this was true or not. I have not received my car yet, but I am so excited to get my hands on it!

justinm001

Being in the tech industry, I'd much rather take my car into the dealer for a firmware update than have one done OWA. Not to mention I don't want any company being able to force updates that can remove features from the car (how long until they force Tesla to remove the ability to surf the web while driving.) Considering legally you don't own the software and features inside your car, companies already add/remove features without your permission. If a law passes removing self driving features, Tesla can disable it OWA where you just don't take your MB to the dealer.

Mplayers2006

$100 GUY

LOL

OC6.3AMG

Mercedes' approach is genius. You basically extend the autonomous drive by touching the steering wheel, so you always have to be alert, and that way you'll have a MUCH lower chance of getting decapitated like the tragic Tesla autonomous "rider's death".

I like Merc's way of thinking, and that's why I buy their products.