unr1

I have a 2013 accord sedan ex and a 2015 e350

there is no comparison. I haven't driven the new e class but everytime I drive the e350 I realize how much better it is than the accord

it rides better, it's quieter, the engine is more refined (V6 compared to 4 cylinder so that's expected) and it feels solid compared to the accord
but it's also more than double the cost.

For value the accord beats the e class, no doubt. But it's not a better car. I plan to drive the new e class this weekend.

c4004matic

Absolutely true. The japanese have been unwilling to take the big leap into true sport luxury but if they are making money they have no incentive to do so. I drove a GS and found it awful to drive. The LS is plush but also disappointing to drive. Acura sedans have become thinly disguised Hondas and have become a one model brand, sad.

PeterUbers

The question is ... is the $75,000 E class a $45,000 better can than an accord?

ADD0514

But they did. There was a time when car magazines and reviews were dotted with "Lexus like" phrases. The German cars were good but focused on Autobahn performance and European centric styling. Lexus catered to the US and Asian consumer's taste countering the German's take it or leave it attitude. Lexus' success jolted the German auto makers awake and into developing new innovations that we enjoy today. For instance, the C class was designed with cues and features to counter the rise of Acura and Infinity. A quick Google search shows that Lexus battles with MB and and BMW for top spots consistently up to 2015. That's when they fell asleep and went ho hum, allowing MB to take the lead.

BeachBunny

That's funny -- I was just going to type something similar! I always use the analogy of a Motel 6 and a Ritz-Carlton. Both provide overnight accommodation, both have beds, TVs, WiFi, a toilet, a sink, and a shower. So they're equal, right? Obviously, the experience will be MUCH different. As an aside, I often will choose the Marriott Residence Inns over a full-service Marriott. They're often newer properties with nicer rooms (although soft goods are usually a notch or two below) and don't have the resort fees / parking fees / WiFi fees of a full service hotel.

They've most certainly taken away from market share! Go to any private club parking lot and you'll certainly see plenty of Lexus LS sitting around. Not all of those people would have had Lincolns otherwise. I drove Benz exclusively until my 1994 Infiniti Q45 and 2004 Infiniti M45. The only reason I didn't buy another Infiniti is covered by the next comment --

I saw a similar problem with Nissan / Infiniti. Their Q70, their "flagship" is now 8 years old and virtually unchanged from when it was first introduced in 2009. In fact, when I hit the 200,000 mile mark on my M45, I started looking for a replacement as I knew it's excellent service history wasn't going to last forever. Infiniti was the first thing I looked at and I couldn't see spending good money to buy a new "old" car. At least update the entertainment unit or something! They also did economies of scale a bit too well -- parts of the interior feel just like a Nissan Altima, like the instrument cluster. Interior fit & finish was leap years better than my 2004 M45 though.

I also felt similar when I recently had a loaded LS460 as a rental car a couple of months back. It was a nice car, but very dated...then I saw the price and thought that Lexus must have moved their HQ to Colorado and smoking some serious herb. LS460 vs S550? No comparison -- S550. At that level, the price difference is insignificant.

Now, I will say that the Infiniti & Lexus dealerships are **SUPERIOR** in experience and customer friendliness to Mercedes. I wish I could find an MB dealership which was even remotely close to providing that level of customer care. Dealing with the various Mercedes service departments makes me think I'm driving a Ford or other mass-market car. Infiniti also has a centralized service system so every single maintenance record is available to every single dealership. Merc's waaaay behind on this. Each Mercedes dealer uses whatever service software they wish. The only thing Merc's databases have are the parts replaced under warranty. No comments, no data.

Good points...but I remember reading somewhere that Chrysler made more profit per car than Mercedes did. Having driven Japanese cars for the past 20 years, I can certainly see where the Japanese learned to value-engineer cars. For example, in my Infinitis, the carpet only went up as high as the eye could see then abruptly stopped, not even glued down at the top. Lots of parts sharing with their lower level cars. Door handles were plastic, as was the linkage. Even Mercedes does this -- the early-year 2015 E350s had wood trim around the instrument cluster. Mine doesn't. Same goes for the wipers as well, with the later production cars having a cheaper assembly.

I do see the extra thought & attention the German engineers have put into their cars, like the fact that the reading light lenses get rotated for if the car is right-hand or left-hand drive. BUT... they still miss the mark. The loaner E300 I have right now has the convenience box in the trunk, which completely blocks the trunk light. For that matter, why doesn't any manufacturer put decent lighting in the trunk? LED strips from China are pennies per foot, if even that much. As far as infotainment goes, I still don't understand why the manufacturers haven't just buried an Android tablet with custom interface in the dash and call it a day. It'd be much cheaper to develop and wouldn't be anywhere near as difficult to support.

One thing the Germans don't have: Reliability. Neither of my Infinitis were flawless, but initial teething problems were minimal, usually squeaks and rattles. I had 225,000 miles on my M45 when I sold it to the mechanic who used to work on it. The only drivetrain issues I ever had were valve cover gaskets (120k), shift lever broken (160k), crankshaft position sensor (200k). My 2015 E350 has been the most unreliable car I've ever owned, even more than the gray-market 280CE I owned and I bought that in rough shape.

ADD0514

Absolutely true! Some one told me when I got my first MB "it's the validation of your hard work and success." But like you, I simply enjoy the car.
Too bad, my CFO will not sign off the Ritz room rate or MB rentals for business trips.

BeachBunny

The true answer to this question will be an individual one, and may even be situation specific. I sometimes fly First class, other times I fly coach.

No one in their right mind pays $75k for an E-Class, unless you're doing an AMG or something unusual. A loaded Accord is ~$32k per TrueCar, loaded E300 showing $63k, so a $31k difference, although I think all of us can probably do better on the E pricing, not sure on the Honda.

If I wasn't on the road 250-300 nights/year and didn't have to drive in terrible traffic, no. I'd probably end up with a Passat or similar. BUT...in the world I operate in, I'm often stuck in traffic jams where traffic never gets above 20 mph for 30-60 minutes due to congestion, people drive like idiots, and I end up spending more time in the car per week than I do a bed.

Clicking on Distronic, reclining the seat, firing up the seat massager and pulling up a live jazz recording from the 60s on a good HiFi while seeing a sea of brake lights? Priceless.

ADD0514

The SA at my 2 local dealers seem to be better as greeters than facilitators between myself and the shop technicians. They often misstated the issues or left them out all together.

MB doesn't want to pay $$$ to Google, put themselves under Google's thumb, and raise Apple's irks.

Believe it or not, getting stuck in traffic brings out the under-appreciated qualities of the E300 as you described above. In regards of the price difference, the disparity is glaring if the comparison is based solely on feature counts and technical merits. But less so if "feels", pleasing designs, assurance, feasts to the senses, superior performances are factored in - These are qualities that separate the luxury cars from the practical ones and justify the higher prices. Comparing the offered values is another debate by itself.


My E400 and GL450 are reliable. My E300 has been in the shop 5 times since July.

PeterUbers

perfect answer.

$30-45,000 is a drop in the bucket when you're thrilled with something and don't regret the purchase. Car and driver may not have addressed this component in their article.

ua549

I've owned lemons from Toyota, Jeep, Porsche and GM that were repurchased by the manufacturer.
I've had cars that required a monthly trip to the dealer for repairs/maintenance including Lotus, Alfa and Porsche.
I've owned various Mercedes for over 50 years. All were purchased new.
With the exception of a W211 E55 only scheduled maintenance was ever required.
The E55 Airmatic front struts failed while driving resulting in shredded front tires and broken wheels.
The Mercedes dealer brought me an E55 loaner while it collected my broken car with a flat bed truck.

I consider only the lemons unreliable. Repairs happen.
Now that software is more important than mechanics frequent software updates are nominal.
Reliability is in the eye of the beholder.

BeachBunny

My E350 has been in the shop for 9 of the past 24 months...and still isn't right. It's actually in the shop as I type this. Mercedes has flat out stated that they REFUSE to replace the car. We're not talking minor things here either -- All intermittent problems, but some of these I consider big things, like the car not starting and the transmission locking up in a gear until you pull off the road & power cycle the car. I also had it where the car's electrical bus basically failed and just about every system on the car reported "INOPERATIVE" on the dash. Because they're intermittent, MB has told me to go pound sand, even when I show video of it. If the system's not showing an error code or it's not happening right in front of their faces, they say the car is working fine. The dealership hasn't been stellar in recent months, but they've been worlds better than MB corporate.

The sad part is that I really don't want a new car -- I want mine to work. Mercedes's slogan has been "The best or nothing." I see what happens when you get nothing.

ua549

Have you complied with the terms of the Florida Lemon Law? If so, go here to start the process.

BeachBunny

Already looked into various options and working on some of them, but not willing to discuss on a public forum -- Mercedes is definitely watching here as well.

ua549

I've used the Florida Lemon Law 4 times. Each time as soon as I started the process, the dealer offered a great deal that I couldn't refuse. Dealers hate the adverse publicity.

thefisch

reading all this makes me want to 'borrow' both these cars for a week and decide which is best for me. Funny how I thought my old Toyota was just fine on the highway until I drove my W212. But to be fair, a few weeks in a Honda or Toyota and I would be just fine.

Zavato

No, it's not. Serious diminishing returns.

I do own a V6 Accord and a V6 E350. The E350 is gives a much quieter ride but both engines are very refined. Both cars handle and ride well. Both cars have well assembled interiors but the E350 is built to a higher price point. The E350 has many more features. I absolutely do not see any obvious details that tells me that the E is built to a much higher level of sophistication or too tighter tolerances than is my Accord. Except I do think the paint job is better on the E.

Thing is, both are superb cars. When I bought my E350 I never considered selling my Accord. I would say that i top spec, the Accord is 80% of what the E series is at much less than 80% the cost. Put it another way, I would almost certainly choose a top spec V6 Accord over a C300!

Streamliner

I completely agree. As far as I am concerned, any MB below an E Class, is an MB in name only and really should be sold as something other than a member of the 3-pointed star line. Boy, am I going to catch hell for this one!

Zavato

I'm getting the pop corn ready for this one

c4004matic

in fact the interior space of a C is more akin to a civic, though in the case of my rentec 400 it would be a civic that goes to 60 in 4.7 seconds and tops out at 160 mph. In fact the reason Im buying an E43 is because an E300 would be a step back in every dynamic parameters! The CLA does suck, the C rocks.

thefisch

a couple years back, I was considering a 2014 accord EXLV6 which were a little over $30k at the time. I decided to shop used luxury in the low $30k's which led me to my 2011 E550 P2 4matic. More features and power (but the v6 was plenty for me) and less depreciation offset by higher maintenance and operating costs. Still think I made the right call.

When you can buy 2 accords new for one new e class the comparison is too much considering they both get the job done. But bring the price points closer and the comparison becomes more fair.

hyperion667

the redesign is slated for '18 too, which is when I'll trade my S class towards either an Accord or a Pilot, which are also very nice for 2017

ngerstman

If all you can say is "I think" I made the right call, you evidently are not an auto enthusiast. I have a e550 4matic which I bought new and it's easily the best car I have ever owned with an amazing engine and transmission, a beast you can beat on and it loves it. I see Accords in your future. Regards. Ned.

mjsbenz

Don't let the door kick you in the ***. Ceya.

thefisch

Hah, no I don't consider myself an auto enthusiast but I do like all kinds of cars (even minivans). I will only 'know' it was the right call versus the accord when I sell the E550. If the next 4 years are as good as the last 2, then it's a no brainer like you said.

And I would be happy to have an Accord in my future. An Accord was my first car and after that we had a V6 coupe that was great. Kept the first one for 6 years and the second one for 8. Very reliable, easy and cheap to maintain with great resale.

ngerstman

You're absolutely right about the LS, used to be a great vehicle and a good value. That was a car built from the ground up, a true premium vehicle. Their bread and butter however is the es and that has always been a lipstick on a pig product from day one and remained content with that. The RX was a trailblazer and even that has gone a bit stale, never evolved that into a higher performance more fun to drive SUV. Once again, their performance version of that is lipstick on a pig. And now they have gone extreme with the exaggerated, ugly front grills. They also have the reputation of bulletproof reliability which is ok but I had my fair share of stuff to fix on my two RX's(2005 and2011). Regards. Ned.