Go Back   MBWorld.org Forums > General Forums > General Mercedes Discussion
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


General Mercedes Discussion Use this forum to discuss general Mercedes-Benz topics that are not specifically model related.

Sponsored by : MB Online Parts
Click Here

Welcome to MBWorld.org!
Welcome to MBWorld,

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!


Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-08-2012, 08:20 PM   #1
IB Staff
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 188
AMG Says No to Diesel

Personally, I think Källenius is being a bit stubborn. Diesels can be incredibly fast! I think Mercedes-Benz focus has been building extraordinarily robust gas engines in recent years and don't see the need to use diesel, but I also think ignoring them completely is silly. What do you think?

AMG Says No To Diesel In Its Future
To remove this ad, register today or login if you already are registered!

MBWorld Editor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 10:27 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 250
Drives: 2005 E320 CDI
I agree with you, I dont think that they should be ignoring the diesel engine potencial.
__________________

2011 BMW 335d
2011 BMW X5 35d
delviacv2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 12:33 AM   #3
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
hubert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 1,915
Drives: 14'G63 AMG ,15'RX350
Didn't AMG make a diesel for European market at one point? I believe it was from the W203 line up??? Diesels have a great potential to make race engines of the future but so does electric motors???? Let's leave this for Mercedes to decide but I agree with you that this guy shouldn't say never!!!
__________________
HUBERT
2014 G63
2015 RX350
99 E430 Kleemann (SOLD)
2012 Harley Vrod Muscle
2006 Big Bear Sled Chopper(all custom)
2010 CanAm Outlander 800XTP


hubert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 01:36 AM   #4
Super Member
 
theunderlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 921
Drives: (SOLD) 05 E55 Estate. 11 Golf TDi
@thenewpegs
Maybe they'll follow in bimmers footsteps with their new diesel M cars!
__________________


theunderlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 02:19 PM   #5
Super Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 615
Drives: 2012 E63BT PP. Dec 2005 E55K Factory LSD. 570-4 Superleggera 2012
AMG and the word Diesel! Does not sound good at all.
Sher Judge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2012, 08:46 PM   #6
Member
 
njgilligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 247
Drives: 2001 CLK55
Firstly I'm a big fan of diesels. The reason there is such a disparity between race bred diesels and common everyday diesels is because so few cars are sold with diesel motors, especially in the US. If the technology doesn't become more mainstream, the quality will never be there at an equivalent cost.

On a somewhat separate note, it baffles me that people seek out new technologies such as electric/fuel cell vehicles for better efficiency, when diesels have been around for decades, and offer outstanding efficiency and performance without the premium you must pay for a brand new technology. It is the same with grid scale power generation; billions of dollars are spent on developing alternative energy sources, while a clean technology (nuclear fission) is neglected due to many legitimate concerns, but to a great extent, negative preconceived notions...

Sorry, that's my rant for the day; maybe diesels don't belong in AMG cars (AMGs are not intended for endurance racing), but it would be great to see more of them, especially in the C/S classes.
__________________
Member #77 - AMG Orphans Club™ International
njgilligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 12:32 AM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lynden Washington
Posts: 4
Drives: Volvo 240 Rallycar
Having driven a number of common rail diesels I can say that I'd be delighted to see Mercedes develop and bring a modern six liter turbodiesel to the USA market to power the S-Class.... If they would put a transmission behind it with enough ratios that can take the torque it would be a win-win-win.

Current diesels are not the stinky slow old junk that we all remember from the 1970s. There is much thanks and rejoicing!
JohnLane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 04:39 PM   #8
Member
 
robalo220's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 151
Drives: 2014 Black SLK 55 AMG, Black 2013 ML 350 Blutec,
Quote:
Originally Posted by njgilligan View Post
Firstly I'm a big fan of diesels. The reason there is such a disparity between race bred diesels and common everyday diesels is because so few cars are sold with diesel motors, especially in the US. If the technology doesn't become more mainstream, the quality will never be there at an equivalent cost.

On a somewhat separate note, it baffles me that people seek out new technologies such as electric/fuel cell vehicles for better efficiency, when diesels have been around for decades, and offer outstanding efficiency and performance without the premium you must pay for a brand new technology. It is the same with grid scale power generation; billions of dollars are spent on developing alternative energy sources, while a clean technology (nuclear fission) is neglected due to many legitimate concerns, but to a great extent, negative preconceived notions...

Sorry, that's my rant for the day; maybe diesels don't belong in AMG cars (AMGs are not intended for endurance racing), but it would be great to see more of them, especially in the C/S classes.
Well I agree with you on almost all points about diesel sales. You are right about the lack of sales in the US but have you been to Europe lately? Almost every car you see there has diesel power except the high end sports cars.

Its very annoying that the US continues to ignore diesel applications and continues to sell Hybrids that cost $6-7K above the gas versions while MB sells diesels about $1K higher than the comparable gas models.

Enough on my rant about diesel sales.

As far as AMG and diesel, why not give it a try. They are putting twin turbos in gas engines to get horsepower and torque out of smaller engines. Why not use diesel. If you have driven one, you know how much torque they can have. I'm guessing the powers to be don't like the diesel sound compared to the gas versions. Heck, MB has even build a diesel SLK sports car in Europe but wont bring it to the US.
Come on MB, why be so stubborn?
robalo220 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 05:10 PM   #9
Member
 
njgilligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 247
Drives: 2001 CLK55
Quote:
Originally Posted by robalo220 View Post
Well I agree with you on almost all points about diesel sales. You are right about the lack of sales in the US but have you been to Europe lately? Almost every car you see there has diesel power except the high end sports cars.
I was in Barcelona a couple years ago admiring a new A6, and became very excited when I noticed it was a diesel. I was even happier when I heard it drive away; you could barely tell it was a diesel from the sound!

I agree that the lack of diesel vehicles in the US is frustrating, but car manufacturers are NOT to blame. Many people (Americans especially) are resistant to the idea of diesels, as they have a preconceived notion of loud motors that won't start in the cold, emit a horrible sulfurous odor, and leave a trail of soot wherever they go. This is, of course, not an accurate description of modern diesel engines, but how can a company be reasonably expected to offer a product that 90% of their market will not consider buying? (that is not a real #)

I think the question we must ask is who benefits by promoting gasoline engines over diesels... oil refineries maybe?

I'm not the most educated person on this topic, but I would guess a major part of the reason we don't see many diesels in the US is because somebody has something to lose, and they have the juice to prevent it...

Okay I'm finished.
__________________
Member #77 - AMG Orphans Club™ International
njgilligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2012, 05:18 PM   #10
Super Member
 
theunderlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 921
Drives: (SOLD) 05 E55 Estate. 11 Golf TDi
@thenewpegs
Quote:
Originally Posted by njgilligan View Post

I'm not the most educated person on this topic, but I would guess a major part of the reason we don't see many diesels in the US is because somebody has something to lose, and they have the juice to prevent it...

Okay I'm finished.
you're exactly right.

true story;

On my 08 Duramax, it uses a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF), what it does is capture all the soot that burning diesel fuel creates. When the DPF is full, the ECU uses fuel from the tank to superheat the exhaust to burn off the soot, and it exits the tailpipe as a impossible to see dust. When you are in "regeneration mode" (the name for the burning off process), your mileage goes down considerably.

So, the geniuses at the EPA have decided that in order to save the visible soot from coming out of the tailpipe, (think 1984 Diesel Rabbits) they USE fuel to stop it.

Makes sense huh? Use more fossil fuel to prevent sooty emissions?
__________________


theunderlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2012, 10:04 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 348
Drives: 1984 300SD
Snipe656 Snipe656
Send a message via AIM to Snipe656 Send a message via Yahoo to Snipe656
What confuses me a little is I recall a few years back reading a number of blog/news postings online saying that another attempt to make a "Super Hammer" was in the works. That would have been an AMG diesel according to those postings but then I never saw a peep about them again. I was really hoping to see this come out but long since gave up on the idea coming true. I just drive way too much to justify a gasser AMG and want a mixture of performance and economy that diesel vehicles are more than capable of given if designed right.

I am not sure if it is being stubborn or not though because these more expensive diesel cars probably have a very limited market appeal. BMW is not going to make just M diesels in the five series and will continue to make the M5 gasser. From what little I have read on the BMW it sounds more like a mixture of their M5 and regular 5 series when getting the M550xd(or what ever it is called) than to be purely getting an "M" car. I have seen estimates for the cost of that M diesel being around $100k USD even though not available in the US and quite frankly at that cost point I'd be looking at an E63 or CLS63 instead because the M diesel would be for a niche market, have probably poor resale value(even more so than an AMG does), and only big benifit would be nice fuel economy and I can brag about my clean tailpipes.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Snipe656 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2012, 10:21 AM   #12
Member
 
njgilligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 247
Drives: 2001 CLK55
I would argue a diesel should maintain its value better than a comparable gas burning car, as the heavier engine and drive-train components help the motors last around 4 times as long. That along with rising fuel prices should make diesels more attractive in the future.

For example, the 2005 E320 and E320CDI both had a sticker price of $49k give or take a couple hundred. However, if you're looking for one right now, the CDI will be, on average, at least $1000 more expensive.
__________________
Member #77 - AMG Orphans Club™ International

Last edited by njgilligan; 02-13-2012 at 10:23 AM.
njgilligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2012, 10:31 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 348
Drives: 1984 300SD
Snipe656 Snipe656
Send a message via AIM to Snipe656 Send a message via Yahoo to Snipe656
I always believed diesel cars would maintain their values better. I have actually experienced the opposite of it with my 335d and actually why I have decided to keep it until it has problems. Just seems to me that the more performance orientated the diesel vehicles get the more niche appeal they end up having.
__________________
--Admiral Aaron Rouse
Snipe656 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2012, 10:31 AM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 38
Drives: CL 500 w215
well if the diesel market does not sell enough to pay for the expenses to create and develop Diesel and such it will be left behind...
specially since the future is looking more and more electric / hydrogen as the years go by
budiu22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2012, 01:16 PM   #15
MBWorld Fanatic!
 
transferred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: OC, SoCal
Posts: 2,318
Drives: 08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
Poor decision. MB diesels lag behind those of BMW as regards power and mileage and need to catch up (as the US does with Europe and their diesel sales).
__________________
08 S65- Obsidian Black
06 M3 CS- Interlagos Blue, stick, matte grille, a few track mods
08 F450 Lariat Crew Cab- White, 4x4, 4.30gears
02 X5 4.6iS- Estoril Blue (wife's)
08 Cooper S JCW- Blue/White (daughter's)
07 R1- Raven
08 Grizzly 700 FI EPS- Black
transferred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2012, 01:25 PM   #16
Member
 
njgilligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 247
Drives: 2001 CLK55
Hmm, I just read that Maserati plans to offer the Quattroporte with a V6 diesel that will make 300hp and 516ft-lbs of torque in 2013. I guess not everyone thinks that diesels don't belong in sporty vehicles.
__________________
Member #77 - AMG Orphans Club™ International
njgilligan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2012, 01:25 PM
 
 
 
Reply

Tags
amg, diesel, job, performance, powered, ppe, products, toys, vbulletin, versions



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:42 PM.


Copyright © 2001-2012 InternetBrands, Inc. / MBWorld.org. All Rights Reserved.
Everyone's Personal Details