drgeeforce

Jasonjeross, I'm not terrified in owning a diesel, but I am p***ed off at MBUSA in failing to take care of a known problem with the ULSD here in the states, just check all of the TDI/diesel forums. In my complaint to the Federal Trade Commission I noted this "policy" of replacing the entire fuel system as an unfair and undisclosed business practice and requested a recall citing a design flaw in equipping their diesels with inadequate filters. I now know the requirements specific to my ride and it needs ultra-clean and ultra-dry diesel fuel, most of which I was fully prepared for already.

jasonjeross

So you feel confident that MB won't pull the same BS on you when this happens again?

In other words, how do you know it's not a design flaw? How do you know you have "ultra-clean and ultra-dry diesel"? In fact, how do you know that even if you DO have said diesel that IF something happens fuel system related again MB won't accept that fuel is not the issue and it's something else?

You don't and frankly the way they routinely treat their customers in regards to this (and other blatant design flaws) should leave you with extreme doubt and concern.

Curious....what did the SA at the dealer (or manager as I assume you talked to an SA first) say in regards to the insurance adjustor finding no "metal" in the system despite the dealerships claim there was? I'd be losing my shyte on that "discrepency" (read: LIE) alone!

drgeeforce

After extensive reviews of TDI forums, Common Rail forums, Diesel Forums I have found a commonality in the failures in the High Pressure fuel pump. Mainly those failures were attributed to metal shavings/particles/rust found in diesel fuel systems. I have found that the fuel level sending units are usually rusted and most likely is the source of metal/rust contamination. The in-tank sensor is not made stainless steel and rust will occur with even microscopic amounts of water. What's surprising is that most regions devoid of this problem have higher biodiesel content in their local fuels. This reinforces the scientific fact that biodiesel absorbs water. Vehicles that have had their fuel system cleaned out and now running either B20 or higher, have not shown to have problems with rust.
I have written to MBUSA noting this cause and urged them to investigate this matter seriously before any injury or death happens, also to institute a voluntary recall of all CR diesels to determine if rust from the fuel level sending unit is present. I also requested that MBUSA provide replacement free of charge to all Bluetec owners and reimburse all those prior to the recall. I will keep MB world posted on their response.


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jasonjeross

DrGee: No offense, but you have a better chance of winning the lottery twice in a row.

I respect your findings, but I don't understand why you would think ANY of the parties (NHTSA/MBUSA/mechanic in the dealership) will give a ****.

Fact is these cars are sold without proper engineering or manufacturer backing. It leaves the buyer with two options: Pay out the nose when it happens again OR sell the car and get something less "sensitive".

drgeeforce

Jason, I have faith that some lawyer in MBUSA sees this and recognizes the liability for MBUSA, because I can always count on lawyers to do what's in the best interest of the ones who signs their paychecks.

drgeeforce

Failure of the HPFP causes the CR to lose pressure therefore the injectors are starved of fuel or worse clogged with rusted metal particles. This sudden loss of fuel causes the engine to shut down instantly along with power steering and power brakes. Depending on the reserve vacuum volume in the booster, consumers may or may not have enough vacuum to adequately bring the vehicle to a safe stop. Also the steering wheel would feel very heavy and the consumer may or may not be able to steer clear of an accident.
I have filed a complaint with the NHTSA odi#10565870 regarding this and urge anyone with the same HPFP failure to file their own complaint.
http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Owners
I wrote to MBUSA noting this cause and urged them to investigate this matter seriously before any injury or death happens, also to institute a voluntary safety recall of all CR diesels to determine if rust from the fuel level sending unit is present. I proposed a remedy to MBUSA to change out the rusted units for stainless steel ones.

drgeeforce

This was a response from a TDI Forums member:

[drgeeforce: Sorry for your troubles.
Sadly, you're "late to the parade" here, as all of your advice, while somewhat sound, has already been spoken about here at length.
FYI: The metal shrapnel you refer to, at least in the VW CRTDIs, is coming from the HPFP, not from the lift pump. This has been well documented here, for several years now.

Your assertion that this is a "scam" is incorrect. A scam is willful and deliberate. I don't believe VWoA, or any manufacturer, is willfully marketing products that they know will fail. While none of us is pleased with the lack of a fool-proof solution, at least VWoA is continuing to replace fuel systems on higher-mileage CR TDIs that have HPFP failures. I'm sorry MB isn't offering you the same courtesy.

Sorry for your frustration. You're not alone.]

Volkswagen of America has a good customer relationship with owners who have had HPFP failures, while MBUSA blames its customers and forces them to replace the entire system at owner's cost.

JenB

Was just taking a look at some of the new posts on this thread (I'm the original poster).

Sad to see others having the same/similar problem. Seems like MB hasn't changed a bit.

It's interesting to see the comment about Volkswagen replacing fuel pumps. I was just talking with a friend who has a diesel VW. He said he had mistakenly put gas in the tank shortly after buying the car. But the dealer was great, said it happens, and flushed the system for free.

I couldn't help but imagine what MB would have charged for that - I know it's a different situation than the corrosion in the fuel system we're talking about here, but there is just no way that any MB dealer around here would do a gas flush for free! I find it ironic that a car manufacturer that prides itself on "luxury" and appealing to a high-end customer cares less about said customer than the manufacturer of the "car for the people". Smoke and mirrors I guess, and I'm the sucker!!

That being said, I still haven't seen a 7-seater that I like better (although in the sedan category where there are many options, Mercedes has lost our loyalty. We will never buy another). And I will say that I am now over 50K miles and have not had a repeat of the fuel problem. So I continue to drive the car.

But if this were to happen again, forget it. In my dreams I would pay to have it towed to Montvale NJ on a flatbed and abandon it out front of corporate headquarters, although I'm sure they would charge me for that . And really, it is kind of bizarre, from a customer loyalty point of view, that MBUSA's behavior towards its customers (and many of us are/were repeat customers) drives us to the point where we hope for lawsuits against them, fantasize about abandoning our car in front of headquarters (ok, well maybe that's just me), publicly encourage others to sell/not buy their cars, etc. I know that we are a vocal minority, but still I would think that MBUSA would want to do everything possible to avoid internet threads like this one!

drgeeforce: sorry to hear of your similar problem. But good for you for following up with NHTSA/FTC/etc. I also think you have virtually no chance of getting any response, but you never know. I too filed a report with NHTSA, not expecting to get any kind of resolution, but with the hope that the report would at least live in a database where someday if others do the same it might make a difference.

And to anyone who might be reading this and thinking of buying a MB bluetec, my advice would be only do it if needing to come up with $10-15K for immediate and unexpected repairs would not be a hardship. It's a low likelihood that you would need to do that, but if it happens you want to make sure it wouldn't mess up your finances. And don't think that if you lease you can just turn the car back in - the "bad fuel" exclusion to the warranty applies regardless of whether you purchase outright or lease. You're on the hook no matter what (in fairness this is true for all car manufacturers).

And it pains me to say that as I'm a big fan of a clean emissions diesel engine and would like to see more adoption, and therefore more options, in the US. So on the one hand I'd like to encourage more folks out there to consider the Mercedes clean diesels (and I still love my GL when it runs!). But every buyer should understand the risks and potential financial pitfalls of owning a MB diesel, and make sure problems like those described here don't cause personal financial hardship given the almost certain lack of support you will get from MBUSA if something does go wrong.

MinhChau

Hi all

After read most of comments relative this matter, I have something in mind:

1) We must top up Diesel before 8 o'clock? If there is water we are still safe?
2) Is there anyway to flush the gas system once a while? How? Where?

Thanks for any input
MinhChau

FastMoneyPlaya

I am having the same problem in my GL350. Car was running rough and after several failed attempts by the dealer at fixing the problem, they are saying "bad fuel" and I need new fuel injectors and fuel filter. They also say it is not covered under warranty - even though this seems to be a common problem / design flaw.

How have people with this problem gotten resolution?

Airmousam

What a thread, Chubb sounds like they are worth a look the next time my insurance is up for renewal

MinhChau

hi folks
Hope this help someone here

*Top up your diesel before 10.00 o'clock to avoid contamination ...... particle....water..go through filter engine.... which cost $$$$$$

* idel your card for 2 min, the rpm should be be low #2 to avoid the timing chain issue, specially in the winter time and it happen try to do that before drive your car so it won't throw the timing chain hard that hit the engine make more noise!