giffie

A new gas station opened up near my place and I noticed this diesel being dispensed.

There is also another label that says that this is a "Ultra Low Sulfur 15 ppm Highway Diesel Fuel".

Do any of you put this type of Diesel in your 350?
TIA

lkchris

Mercedes specifies that only biodiesel up to 5% is permitted.

Each dealer is required to have very sophisticated equipment to test your fuel, and warranty will be denied for any engine problem possibly related to fuel used if > 5% is detected.

So, does it really matter whether "anyone is using it?"

giffie

Since I posted this, I called most of the name branded gas stations around this area (Midwest, Champaign/Urbana). Most of them didnt even know if they carried bio diesel or regular diesel!

So, I spent the next coupe of hours visiting gas stations and ALL the freakin' stations carry the label that says "5% to 20% biomass", including ALL name brand stations (Shell, BP, Mobil, etc).

The station that I was filling up for the last month also has the same "bio *****"... I thought it was regular diesel, but they had a tiny inconspicuous label that said it as 5-20% biomass)

F'ing Midwest!

So, I went to the only MB dealer in town and asked the service manager as to suggestions.. he just said that they fill the same 5%-20% bio thingy in all their new vehicles and that it was OK.

I am thinking of writing to MB HQ and clarifying this predicament!

Miami was so much better, before we moved here a month ago!

Fourdiesel

It is probably a mid west thing. Since the source of most biodiesel is farm product (soy oil or rapeseed oil) it stands to reason that the farmers in the state (any farm state) will pressure the legislature to REQUIRE all diesel sold to contain a high minimum amount of bioD. The justification is, of course, local farm jobs! The stations have no say in the matter. Neither does the dealer who can only hope that the actual content isn't above 5%. (Note that the signs that give a range don't necessarily say anything above 5%)
If you wanted to go to a lot of work, you could track down the blending facility where your favorite station buys its diesel most of the time and find out from them how much bioD they routinely add to the mix.

giffie

Yes, unfortunately, it seems to be so
This is what I see in the only Shell station in town...

Would love to hear from fellow BlueTEC friends who are forced to use 5-20% bio cr@p ..
EDIT: Gosh! how do I make the images smaller? These pictures turn out to be huge in the forum.. sorry folks!

dgiturbo

I see those stickers all the time here in the Chicagoland area. Never had an issue with it after 96K miles. Just make sure it says ULSD on the pump.

I would guess that to get a tax break, fuel stations nationwide have to mix with something in varying amounts. (Ethanol for gas, bio stuff for diesel), and may not even be posting label unless mandated by State etc. I wouldn't say to put 100% Bio in your ride, but I have used B30 several times when available.

newyorktoLA

I have never seen any of these signs in L.A...
But has anyone noticed how DIRTY and GROSS the handles tend to be for the diesel pumps? In L.A., the normal gas ones have the odor covers and are so clean in comparison to the sticky and smelly diesel ones...For me, its just one more incentive to buy a 450!

giffie

This is very heartening to hear this from a fellow GL owner!
So far, I have filled up the tank 3 times with the 5-20% blend.

But... yesterday, I found ONE pump in Champaign/Urbana that had regular diesel! Bonus: The diesel is a high Cetane one ... and the price is the same as "bio-cr@p"! This will be my regular station from now on.

FWIW, the only regular diesel pump in Champaign Urbana area is in the Meijer store on Philo road. Just posting this, in case somebody searches for 'regular diesel in Champaign Urbana'

giffie

I always have food-dispensing gloves ("subway" gloves) on when I pump diesel. Cheap and disposable. There is a box on the driver side door.
Makes me look like a dork, but... that's me!

Fourdiesel

I've been to LA and up and down the west coast - La is the only place where the diesel handles are grimy. Guess its just the environment down there!

mbslk350

As a fellow resident of Illinois, I have researched the biodiesel question at great length. I have discussed with my service manager, written to MBUSA HQ in New Jersey and done extensive web research. Only ONE brand in my area (Mobil) sells pure diesel, and stations that sell that brand are beginning to convert over to Bio.

Bottom line...stations in IL receive a subsidy to sell Bio. The People's Republic of IL, home of strong Agricultural lobbies and large, influential Bio producers, home of corrupt politicians and deep blue politics, has decreed that Bio is the way to go. MB has told me, in writing, the B5 is the max allowable and anything more will do long term damage to the engine. They also told me that they are not responsible for the fuel supply and if I cannot get pure diesel than I should petition the IL government to drop the subsidy. (Yeah, right!)

I asked MB what I should do if I am faced with a choice between damaging the engine by simply using the only fuel available, or parking my $62k vehicle forever. They had no answer, other than working with my state to change the subsidy.

At some point in the future, MB and the other German diesel manufacturers will have this issue blow up in their collective faces. Owners will start seeing thousands of dollars of repairs caused by simply filling their tanks with the only diesel that is available in the marketplace.

giffie

Dang! If I had known about this, I wouldn't have moved here! Why shouldn't there be a choice to customers?

At least there is ONE pure diesel station in town! If that switches to bio, I will be forced to sell my beloved GL 350!

People warned me about moving to the Midwest... if only I had heeded their collective advices *sigh*

LEOSOPHIE

Two weeks ago I was refueling my rental at an Aguip station and found two diesel options. Gasolio which I have always used and Blue diesel which was several cents higher per liter. The Blue diesel was being promoted with a big blue banner. I assume Blue is something environmental.

Fourdiesel

More importantly, why is MBUSA allowing their dealers in Illinois to SELL any of the company's diesel products. At least one dealer is quoted as saying "we just fill up with what is available". Seems there may be a legal recourse there against Mercedes if Mercedes refuses warranty coverage. Also, the engine / emissions are certified by to the US EPA as meeting standards for the required length of time when using B5. Doesn't Illinois set themselves up against the feds if they don't allow sales of a fuel that is consistent with those standards? [Oops, sorry, I forgot who the pres is and where he came from]

giffie

Yes, I have verified with the dealer's service manager. He says that they always fill up 5-20% bio diesel blend in the nearby Mobil station.

Although I haven't 'bought' my diesel in that particular dealership, I am guessing fellow MBWorld friends who HAVE purchased a diesel vehicle from this dealership can argue with MBUSA, if they have engine problems.

mbslk350

I would guess that most owners of German clean diesel vehicles just use whatever ULSD is available. Most don't know the difference between Bio and pure diesel. Some dealers also don't know or care when filling new vehicles prior to delivery.

My research shows that the harmful effects of Bio will show up over time. So a few tanks here and there, or even constant Bio use, will likely not show any harmful effects for awhile. Also, the big concern is having the Bio sit in the tank for long periods. For example, while the car is in storage for the winter or for an extended time while the owners are out of town.

My dealer's service manager said he has not seen any diesel vehicles come in with any damage that he can attribute to Bio. If the damage occurs gradually over months and years of constant use, then I think he may start seeing some issues in the future. But then the damage is done and MB ends up with some very unhappy customers.

I go out of my way to find the few pure diesel stations in my area. I do not want to take any chances. On a recent trip to Des Moines, I encountered the same Bio problem as in Illinois. I wasted an hour driving around to find the good diesel so I could drive back home.

At this point, I've decided to get a new Ford Explorer for road trips longer than 600 miles (one tankful) and restrict the GL320 to local trips. The Explorer will also be good for hauling mulch and other stuff that I'd rather not mess up the GL carrying.

We can all thank Al Gore and his "renewable energy" minions for this whole Biodiesel problem.

mdadgar

Actually, we can thank Big Corn for this fiasco. I'm not a big Gore fan, but let's give credit where credit is due.

The corn subsidy is a goddamned travesty. It blows my mind that it still exists, as this is the one thing that you'd think both the Dems and the GOP could get behind.

- Mark

mbslk350

Bumping this to the top. Since I last wrote, all but ONE station within 10 miles of my home has converted to Biodiesel. There used to be two, but that friggin blue BIODIESEL sticker was on the pump of the 2nd station today when I went to fill up.

When the very last station converts over, then what? I'll have to use the bio crap and hope for the best.

Fourdiesel

Just a thought that may help.
In my area there is a fuel jobber that delivers gas, diesel heating oil, etc, etc all over town and the surrounding countryside. They sell off road (untaxed - red dyed) fuel to the loggers and heavy equipment operators. I buy off road diesel there for my equipment. They are also the only place locally I can get the Mobil I ESP Formula M for my oil changes.
I noticed the other day they had a sign out that they are selling regular LEADED gas! No alcohol, just straight tetra-ethyl-lead gasoline (regular and high octane). Talk about flash back!
If I had the same issue about biodiesel that you guys in Illinois have, I'd be talking to a fuel jobber near me and make arrangements to buy straight high grade dino diesel direct, no bio, no nothing else. You might want to look around and see if you can chat someone up. Buy it fully taxed so the 'authorities' don't get cranky but if you buy direct like that you are buying from the folks that really know what they are doing and can give you the fuel you need.

giffie

Here is some info on what service professionals are advised by MBUSA.... This document shows what checks to perform, and how to deal with vehicles that have used B5%-20% and 100% Bio Diesel in Illinois.

https://i.imgur.com/bEztt.jpg

dgiturbo

Scary pics, but I have to call ... I would need to see the condition that vehicle was used in, and the service history.
I change my own oil, and after 106000 miles of use, I have never seen my oil filter look like that on any of my vehicles. Keep in mind that, yes I do change my oil every 5000 miles. But still, it is no way near the condition of those pics. Common sense to me indicates that going 10000 miles between oil changes would be more detrimental than 500-600 miles on to a tank of B-10?
Wonder what the mighty Mobil1 has to say about such severe oil sludge after 10000 miles?
Funny how they show "Intake Damage" pics when diesel fuel is direct injected into the combustion chamber.
Looks like another idea to wiggle out of warranty?

Hydrocarbons

Hi, I'm a fuel distributor... 11% bio is an unusual number and I've never seen this before. Fact is that we can blend any ratio you want but so much easier to round off at 10%. Due to high crude prices, most ultra low sulfur diesel is cut with 5% bio right now. And the pump does not necessarily have to disclose this, although their may be PR reasons to promote the fuel as "biodiesel" . The label in this posts says the pump "may contain up to" which also means it may contain less than the number shown. Hope this is helpful...

ILBIODIESELRUIN

Illinois Diesel has 11% Bio in the Diesel because in Madaghastan our Leg were paid off to pass a tax break that gives a tax discount if the Diesel has "MORE THAN 10% BIO IN THE DIESEL" so they all put 11% to qualify for the discount. The trouble is Clean Diesels can not run more than 5% Bio in the diesel. I found this out the hard way because my 2010 GL 350 at 37,300 miles after driving 27 months went into limp mode. The dealer towed the car in and after 4 weeks said the car was fixed. A O sensor on the primary cat converter had burned up and seized up. Also the turbocharger had overheated so they replaced the turbo, primary cat and the O sensor. They called me and said pick up it's fixed. On the way there they called me and said "Don't come it has performance sluggishness. They took it apart and found out the car had sludging in all oil. This car had just had the 30,000 $1,000.00 service in Dec 2011 5 months before and everything was passed as good. What happened in interum was that every gas station in Illinois only had 11% Biodiesel. MB dealer had the car for 5 more months. They refused to replace the engine(They said they could not fix it). I had been using their brand new Loaner GLK for 9500 miles. MB Customer retention got involved and on the day they were going to do the buy back they changed all the numbers and wanted me to write a check for $47K before they would sell another vehicle (2012 CLS550 at 2010 price) I didn't have the 47K so we had to walk and then pay to have the 2010 GL 350 towed where it sat in my driveway for the next 36 months at $1,100/month. I usually finance cars @1.9% for 66 months since I keep my cars 10 years usually. I just finally got a buyer to purchase it for 10K this week. It took me this long to get the principal down enough to find a buyer as a new engine is 30K.
So if you have an AUDI VW BMW MERCEDES CHRYSLER with a clean diesel and you drive 18,000 highway miles a year in Illinois get rid of the vehicle while it is running. No lawyer will take an Illinois law because the State law basically says the Manufacturer only has to pay you whatever they want in a buyback and they do not have to fix it. This Bio is going to spread to other States so you essentially end up with a vehicle that you can not buy proper gas for. Oh and the Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan who happens to be the daughter of the Illinois House Speaker Madigan will not help either(She sent me a letter advising me to hire an Attorney.
SUMMARY:
11% Biodiesel= Sludging+ Turbo overheats(no temp sensor warning system in GL350) from sludging disintegrates sending bearings and metal parts into places unimaginable Primary cat converter overheats 0 Sensor melts into Converter and MB NA will buy it back for whatever they feel like even though I had bought a 2010 s550 4matic, a2012 S550 4matic and a2010 GL 350 all from the same dealer in 3 years

N_Jay

MB seems to be selling Diesels in IL again, and with a few cautions, I have heard all is OK.
As much as I hate the politics of "Bio-Fuels" my dealer (Fair size MB and Sprinter dealer) said he has not seen any problems on properly maintained diesels.
Change oil at the recommended time and miles.
Change fuel filter every other oil change.
Watch oil level for increases and change oil if noticed.
http://mercedes-benz.custhelp.com/ci...hure_Final.pdf
http://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalA..._Brochure5.pdf

alx

Biodiesel is ok, but has its caveats.

If this all you have put in your truck or you are using it fairly often you are ok. However, if used rarely it will be dangerous especially for higher mileage vehicles.

The problem is that biodiesel is a decent detergent and if your fuel system has sludge it will get stripped and accumulate in the fuel filter and possibly in the high pressure pump and injectors. Depending on the phase of the moon this might result in limited rpms due to clogged fuel filter (best case) to clogged injectors and pump (worst case)