Debating about towing a 25' vs 29' trailer
06-27-2014, 04:09 AM
#1
Debating about towing a 25' vs 29' trailer
Hi,
This will be my first time towing anything. I am planning a trip to Banff and I want travel trailer camping.
I am debating between two choices when rent the trailer:
Option 1:
Keystone Passport Ultra Lite 238MLWE, 3923lb, hitch weight 410lb, 25'6" length
Option 2:
Keystone Passport Ultra Lite 2650BHWE, 4938lb, hitch weight 470lb, 29'4" length.
I am wondering if there is much difference between these two for towing experience, i.e. will the difference in the length cause noticeable/obvious extra difficulty for first time driver? (first time driver here means first time towing experience. I have driving experience of 16-17 years).
Thank you very much.
This will be my first time towing anything. I am planning a trip to Banff and I want travel trailer camping.
I am debating between two choices when rent the trailer:
Option 1:
Keystone Passport Ultra Lite 238MLWE, 3923lb, hitch weight 410lb, 25'6" length
Option 2:
Keystone Passport Ultra Lite 2650BHWE, 4938lb, hitch weight 470lb, 29'4" length.
I am wondering if there is much difference between these two for towing experience, i.e. will the difference in the length cause noticeable/obvious extra difficulty for first time driver? (first time driver here means first time towing experience. I have driving experience of 16-17 years).
Thank you very much.
06-27-2014, 08:44 AM
#2
Out Of Control!!
Both are long for the first time towing. But that depends on how good a driver you are and how quickly you learn the little tricks to towing.
Backing and parking get harder as the trailer gets longer.
Both are well within the vehicle's capabilities, but the extra weight will be noticeable on the hills.
How long are you using the trailer? Do you need the extra room?
Backing and parking get harder as the trailer gets longer.
Both are well within the vehicle's capabilities, but the extra weight will be noticeable on the hills.
How long are you using the trailer? Do you need the extra room?
06-27-2014, 11:18 AM
#3
I will use it for 7-9 days. Can't go smaller than the shorter one (238MLWE), which has a queue bed, two bunk beds, a dinette and no sofa (which becomes a bed of 5'6"-5'7" long), as we have 4 adults, one 5 yr old, and one 2 years old (who would have to sleep on the trailer floor in a little kid tent. It will be a tight fit for the tent on the floor.
See its floorplan here: http://www.tacomarv.com/--rentals-tt-238mlwe.
See its floorplan here: http://www.tacomarv.com/--rentals-tt-238mlwe.
Both are long for the first time towing. But that depends on how good a driver you are and how quickly you learn the little tricks to towing.
Backing and parking get harder as the trailer gets longer.
Both are well within the vehicle's capabilities, but the extra weight will be noticeable on the hills.
How long are you using the trailer? Do you need the extra room?
Backing and parking get harder as the trailer gets longer.
Both are well within the vehicle's capabilities, but the extra weight will be noticeable on the hills.
How long are you using the trailer? Do you need the extra room?
06-28-2014, 01:17 PM
#4
Senior Member
I would without question go with the larger trailer.
Why? Nothing to do with the GL - because of the number of people you have. The smaller trailer is waaay to small for that big of a crew. Plus - with as many people you have, you want to think about where all of your gear and food is going to go, plus you are hopefully thinking about your fresh water supply.
We tow a 28 foot airstream with our GL, it is a bit tight inside with two adults, two teenagers and our 90 pound lab. With military style showers, we can go about three days on 45 gallons of fresh water, which is our main constraint for trip length when boondocking.
The four extra feet of the larger trailer you are looking at makes a ton of different in interior room, much less difference in terms of towing.
No brainer for me -go big.
Why? Nothing to do with the GL - because of the number of people you have. The smaller trailer is waaay to small for that big of a crew. Plus - with as many people you have, you want to think about where all of your gear and food is going to go, plus you are hopefully thinking about your fresh water supply.
We tow a 28 foot airstream with our GL, it is a bit tight inside with two adults, two teenagers and our 90 pound lab. With military style showers, we can go about three days on 45 gallons of fresh water, which is our main constraint for trip length when boondocking.
The four extra feet of the larger trailer you are looking at makes a ton of different in interior room, much less difference in terms of towing.
No brainer for me -go big.
06-30-2014, 03:35 AM
#5
You said you tow a 28 ft Airstream with your Gl450. How much is your trailer's dry weight and gross weight? And how much is its hitch weight?
Do you feel GL450 has any difficulty tow your trailer up/down a hill?
Thanks.
Do you feel GL450 has any difficulty tow your trailer up/down a hill?
Thanks.
I would without question go with the larger trailer.
Why? Nothing to do with the GL - because of the number of people you have. The smaller trailer is waaay to small for that big of a crew. Plus - with as many people you have, you want to think about where all of your gear and food is going to go, plus you are hopefully thinking about your fresh water supply.
We tow a 28 foot airstream with our GL, it is a bit tight inside with two adults, two teenagers and our 90 pound lab. With military style showers, we can go about three days on 45 gallons of fresh water, which is our main constraint for trip length when boondocking.
The four extra feet of the larger trailer you are looking at makes a ton of different in interior room, much less difference in terms of towing.
No brainer for me -go big.
Why? Nothing to do with the GL - because of the number of people you have. The smaller trailer is waaay to small for that big of a crew. Plus - with as many people you have, you want to think about where all of your gear and food is going to go, plus you are hopefully thinking about your fresh water supply.
We tow a 28 foot airstream with our GL, it is a bit tight inside with two adults, two teenagers and our 90 pound lab. With military style showers, we can go about three days on 45 gallons of fresh water, which is our main constraint for trip length when boondocking.
The four extra feet of the larger trailer you are looking at makes a ton of different in interior room, much less difference in terms of towing.
No brainer for me -go big.
06-30-2014, 12:05 PM
#6
Senior Member
Search is your friend - there are plenty of threads about towing here, I've posted all that you are asking for and much much more... Just search for tow or towing or Airstream.
06-30-2014, 03:30 PM
#7
Sorry if I made you think that I don't do my own work before asking. I did.
It seems some people saying that towing the first time isn't that hard, just need to be careful, some people think the other way.
As a newbie, I don't know if that has something to do with their towing vehicles. I suspect that it does.
In rvforum, I asked the same question, it seems that someone think with a 5000lb dry weight trailer, it isn't a good idea to tow it with a vehicle of 7500lb towing capacity, because it is too close to its limit after everything is added up.
Regarding your towing 28' Airstream, there are multiple models of 28' Airstream, and for the few I have checked, they seems to be quite heavy for GL450 (the hitch weight is probably over 600lb), so I am very curious how you handle it and how well do you feel your GL450 is handling it.
If there is an easy way for me to try out first, I would have tried. Or if there is trailer towing driving school kind of thing available, I would have tried too, and will probably get the answer for my question via the experience.
Thank you very much for all your answers anyway, the answers have a lot of useful information.
It seems some people saying that towing the first time isn't that hard, just need to be careful, some people think the other way.
As a newbie, I don't know if that has something to do with their towing vehicles. I suspect that it does.
In rvforum, I asked the same question, it seems that someone think with a 5000lb dry weight trailer, it isn't a good idea to tow it with a vehicle of 7500lb towing capacity, because it is too close to its limit after everything is added up.
Regarding your towing 28' Airstream, there are multiple models of 28' Airstream, and for the few I have checked, they seems to be quite heavy for GL450 (the hitch weight is probably over 600lb), so I am very curious how you handle it and how well do you feel your GL450 is handling it.
If there is an easy way for me to try out first, I would have tried. Or if there is trailer towing driving school kind of thing available, I would have tried too, and will probably get the answer for my question via the experience.
Thank you very much for all your answers anyway, the answers have a lot of useful information.
Trending Topics
07-01-2014, 11:01 AM
#8
towing
DeeperBlue,
I have a 2011 GL350 and tow a 30 foot Airstream. (2005 Safari 30). I have it set up with a ProPride hitch and it tows marvelous. Just got back from Colorado this past weekend from Texas and averaged 15.4 mpg towing. My trailer dry weight is 6400, and on a long trip I scale at 7100 lb.
I may be over a tad on my my tongue weight but according to the CAT scale I have the hitch adjusted correctly for weight distribution on the front and rear axles (with wife and kids in car).
I do not have any experience with the 450 but the torque of the 350 makes it better than my last two 3/4 ton suburbans.
I have a 2011 GL350 and tow a 30 foot Airstream. (2005 Safari 30). I have it set up with a ProPride hitch and it tows marvelous. Just got back from Colorado this past weekend from Texas and averaged 15.4 mpg towing. My trailer dry weight is 6400, and on a long trip I scale at 7100 lb.
I may be over a tad on my my tongue weight but according to the CAT scale I have the hitch adjusted correctly for weight distribution on the front and rear axles (with wife and kids in car).
I do not have any experience with the 450 but the torque of the 350 makes it better than my last two 3/4 ton suburbans.
07-01-2014, 11:15 PM
#10
Senior Member
I've got a 1999 Safari wide body - it's a 27 foot trailer and it weighs around 5500 pounds. The tongue weight is very close to 600. The GVWR of the trailer is around 6800 pounds.
We generally load the trailer carefully to not put extra tongue weight on the trailer. I also don't carry cargo in the GL - everything except people and our dog goes in the Airstream - again just to make sure I have plenty of safety margin in terms of GVWR for our GL.
I did reinforce my hitch receiver prior to purchasing the trailer. I didn't do the full Andy from Can-Am reinforcement, I just had triangular gussets welded in. It was probably unnecessary, but it seemed prudent to me given the stories about the hitch receivers on 2009 and earlier GLs twisting off the bumper tube when towing very heavy loads with weight distributing hitches.
As far as power - the GL 350 has more than enough - it can easily maintain 65 MPH up most normal interstate highway grades. On extreme grades like the Teton pass, I think I topped out about 35 or 40 MPH. We've been up to Tuolumne Meadows over the Tioga pass close to a dozen times - again no problems maintaining the speed limit.
You can definitely feel the trailer back there. But it's never felt unsafe in almost 20,000 miles of towing. Braking has also always been strong - I generally set my trailer brakes up to lead the truck by a small amount.
There are plenty of folks towing large loads - think boats, airstreams and race cars - with their GLs. You will also find lots of pickup truck people that would use nothing less than a 3/4 ton truck to tow a 29 foot trailer. And you'll find other folks that think that towing an Airstream with a 3/4 ton truck will shake your $60,000 trailer to pieces. There are battles on the Airstream forums - www.airforum.com - about this kind of stuff all the time.
Only other thoughts: You'll want to have a good brake controller - I use a prodigy P3 (best price is on Amazon), wired into the GL per the instructions in this forum (search for green tow plug) and you'll want to invest in quality extended towing mirrors that you can attach to your GL.
I keep the rear tires inflated to 38 (cold) when towing, I leave the fronts at 32. I am finally about to need a new set of tires on the GL after close to 45,000 miles.
Hopefully this covers what you were looking for.
- Dan
We generally load the trailer carefully to not put extra tongue weight on the trailer. I also don't carry cargo in the GL - everything except people and our dog goes in the Airstream - again just to make sure I have plenty of safety margin in terms of GVWR for our GL.
I did reinforce my hitch receiver prior to purchasing the trailer. I didn't do the full Andy from Can-Am reinforcement, I just had triangular gussets welded in. It was probably unnecessary, but it seemed prudent to me given the stories about the hitch receivers on 2009 and earlier GLs twisting off the bumper tube when towing very heavy loads with weight distributing hitches.
As far as power - the GL 350 has more than enough - it can easily maintain 65 MPH up most normal interstate highway grades. On extreme grades like the Teton pass, I think I topped out about 35 or 40 MPH. We've been up to Tuolumne Meadows over the Tioga pass close to a dozen times - again no problems maintaining the speed limit.
You can definitely feel the trailer back there. But it's never felt unsafe in almost 20,000 miles of towing. Braking has also always been strong - I generally set my trailer brakes up to lead the truck by a small amount.
There are plenty of folks towing large loads - think boats, airstreams and race cars - with their GLs. You will also find lots of pickup truck people that would use nothing less than a 3/4 ton truck to tow a 29 foot trailer. And you'll find other folks that think that towing an Airstream with a 3/4 ton truck will shake your $60,000 trailer to pieces. There are battles on the Airstream forums - www.airforum.com - about this kind of stuff all the time.
Only other thoughts: You'll want to have a good brake controller - I use a prodigy P3 (best price is on Amazon), wired into the GL per the instructions in this forum (search for green tow plug) and you'll want to invest in quality extended towing mirrors that you can attach to your GL.
I keep the rear tires inflated to 38 (cold) when towing, I leave the fronts at 32. I am finally about to need a new set of tires on the GL after close to 45,000 miles.
Hopefully this covers what you were looking for.
- Dan
Last edited by ddruker; 07-01-2014 at 11:26 PM.
07-01-2014, 11:20 PM
#11
Out Of Control!!
With a WDH, you want to increase the pressure on all tires.
Maybe the fronts not as much as the backs, but certainly above standard.
Maybe the fronts not as much as the backs, but certainly above standard.
07-01-2014, 11:35 PM
#12
Senior Member
Agree - except I'm not using weight distribution. Back to my probably irrational fear of twisting off my hitch receiver and not wanting to do the full Andy from Can Am receiver modification on the GL while it was under warranty.
If I had a newer or longer airstream that had a significantly higher tongue weight but is still within the GL towing capacity, I would definitely be in both the weight distributing hitch and the more extensive hitch receiver mods camp.
The new airstreams also seem to get heavier every year. Now that my 1999 is all fixed up, I've been lusting after a 2009 or 2010 31 footer as my next project - which would require me to buy a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck - I'd be exceeded both the towing capacity and GVWR of the GL 350, with an Airstream of this size, which I wouldn't do. But what a great excuse to buy a pickup - and what fun to add to the stable!
If I had a newer or longer airstream that had a significantly higher tongue weight but is still within the GL towing capacity, I would definitely be in both the weight distributing hitch and the more extensive hitch receiver mods camp.
The new airstreams also seem to get heavier every year. Now that my 1999 is all fixed up, I've been lusting after a 2009 or 2010 31 footer as my next project - which would require me to buy a 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton truck - I'd be exceeded both the towing capacity and GVWR of the GL 350, with an Airstream of this size, which I wouldn't do. But what a great excuse to buy a pickup - and what fun to add to the stable!
Last edited by ddruker; 07-01-2014 at 11:41 PM.
07-02-2014, 09:48 AM
#13
Senior Member
Guys, love the pictures, you're making me jealous as my wife isn't a camper and thinks anything less than a four star hotel is slumming it. I grew up tent camping and want my kids to have an appreciation for the outdoors.
Anyway, for the OP, with regards to towing. I think that starting off with a 28 foot trailer is going to be a steep learning curve. I've been towing now for about 14 years and have a 24' racing (box) trailer. It's about 6500lb loaded and the GL tows it easily with a WDH. When I started out racing, I had an 18' open aluminum trailer and still had some difficult moments. Towing is harder than it appears, especially since most drivers out there don't have an appreciation for the extended braking distances required. You have to be alert and on your toes at all times when towing.
The hardest things are usually related to fueling up (not hitting stuff when angling in towards the pumps) and parking lots. But also things as simple as making turns can be difficult for newbies and it's common to run over curbs. My ex-wife insisted on driving on a trip up to New Hampshire for a race one time, and cut a corner too close and clipped both tires on the right side of the trailer, tearing the sidewalls. I only had two spares, and later we had a blowout on I-95 in Connecticut, which meant a search for trailer tires on short notice, which burned an entire day. I also remember a fellow racer taking a curve too fast in Alabama on a foggy night and having his trailer sway, pushing him off the road into a ditch. It destroyed one side of his trailer, dented up his race car when things inside landed on it, and broke the axle on his dually truck.
Then there was the racer who had little pine tree stickers on the front quarter panel of his race car, kind of like on a fighter jet. After a long racing weekend he was worn out and hitched up his trailer, but apparently forgot to lock down the hitch. When he got out on the highway he hit a large bump and the trailer separated from the tongue at speed, and the trailer went off the road, mowing down a half a dozen small pines...
Be careful out there!
Anyway, for the OP, with regards to towing. I think that starting off with a 28 foot trailer is going to be a steep learning curve. I've been towing now for about 14 years and have a 24' racing (box) trailer. It's about 6500lb loaded and the GL tows it easily with a WDH. When I started out racing, I had an 18' open aluminum trailer and still had some difficult moments. Towing is harder than it appears, especially since most drivers out there don't have an appreciation for the extended braking distances required. You have to be alert and on your toes at all times when towing.
The hardest things are usually related to fueling up (not hitting stuff when angling in towards the pumps) and parking lots. But also things as simple as making turns can be difficult for newbies and it's common to run over curbs. My ex-wife insisted on driving on a trip up to New Hampshire for a race one time, and cut a corner too close and clipped both tires on the right side of the trailer, tearing the sidewalls. I only had two spares, and later we had a blowout on I-95 in Connecticut, which meant a search for trailer tires on short notice, which burned an entire day. I also remember a fellow racer taking a curve too fast in Alabama on a foggy night and having his trailer sway, pushing him off the road into a ditch. It destroyed one side of his trailer, dented up his race car when things inside landed on it, and broke the axle on his dually truck.
Then there was the racer who had little pine tree stickers on the front quarter panel of his race car, kind of like on a fighter jet. After a long racing weekend he was worn out and hitched up his trailer, but apparently forgot to lock down the hitch. When he got out on the highway he hit a large bump and the trailer separated from the tongue at speed, and the trailer went off the road, mowing down a half a dozen small pines...
Be careful out there!
07-02-2014, 10:24 AM
#14
Out Of Control!!
Wait till your wife is driving and the trailer starts swaying a little and she starts sea-sawing the steering wheel to correct.
Two fixes (both which got me yelled at)
Reaching across to hit the brake switch on the controller,
and telling her to cross her hands on the wheel. (Sounds funny but works)
Two fixes (both which got me yelled at)
Reaching across to hit the brake switch on the controller,
and telling her to cross her hands on the wheel. (Sounds funny but works)
03-04-2015, 06:52 PM
#16
03-05-2015, 09:46 PM
#17
Hitch
Rosta Dam,
Yes, my Airstream is a Safari 30 Bunkhouse I bought new back in 2006. I towed with two different Suburbans before using the GL.
No hitch reinforcement. My 2011 has the later version hitch which I like. What I do is super religiously clean and lube it all the way to where it attaches to the body of the car. When I do this I check for any suspicious signs of tweaking etc. so far so good. Whole setup has impressed me with performance and efficiency. GL350 is really a great tow vehicle.
Yes, my Airstream is a Safari 30 Bunkhouse I bought new back in 2006. I towed with two different Suburbans before using the GL.
No hitch reinforcement. My 2011 has the later version hitch which I like. What I do is super religiously clean and lube it all the way to where it attaches to the body of the car. When I do this I check for any suspicious signs of tweaking etc. so far so good. Whole setup has impressed me with performance and efficiency. GL350 is really a great tow vehicle.
03-06-2015, 08:36 AM
#18
Rosta Dam,
Yes, my Airstream is a Safari 30 Bunkhouse I bought new back in 2006. I towed with two different Suburbans before using the GL.
No hitch reinforcement. My 2011 has the later version hitch which I like. What I do is super religiously clean and lube it all the way to where it attaches to the body of the car. When I do this I check for any suspicious signs of tweaking etc. so far so good. Whole setup has impressed me with performance and efficiency. GL350 is really a great tow vehicle.
Yes, my Airstream is a Safari 30 Bunkhouse I bought new back in 2006. I towed with two different Suburbans before using the GL.
No hitch reinforcement. My 2011 has the later version hitch which I like. What I do is super religiously clean and lube it all the way to where it attaches to the body of the car. When I do this I check for any suspicious signs of tweaking etc. so far so good. Whole setup has impressed me with performance and efficiency. GL350 is really a great tow vehicle.
I had found a couple of larger trailers to buy (which I did not buy) as I was nervous about the hitch. What I did was to install an older GL hitch, which is rated at 750#. Your experience makes me think my worries were unwarranted. The technician that installed the hitch took some (blurry) photos during the installation process. The connection of the hitch to the uni-body is VERY stout. The new (older) hitch also have decent amount of welding for receiver-tube connection.
03-06-2015, 06:25 PM
#19
Factory Hitch
I agree where the hitch bolts to the vehicle is very robust. I liked the bars that go back into the recesses for stiffeners.
Keep that transmission fluid changed and enjoy the tow....
Keep that transmission fluid changed and enjoy the tow....
03-10-2015, 12:45 AM
#20
Agree with most everything said above, but I wanted to add my experience.
1. I tow a 29' Jayco FeatherLGT. 5500 lbs dry weight, 6500 lbs max loaded. I used to tow it with an escalade, which I considered very capable (I literally towed all over the Rockies, Grand Canyon, etc . . .). I haven't gone nearly as far with my 2011 GL350, but if anything, it feels more capable. Certainly uses less fuel, and I can virtually ignore the trailer during normal highway driving.
The usual towing rules of thumb apply: Learn to engine brake on downgrades, Manage your tongue weight (really, just try to load everything around the trailer axels, and don't carry water, fresh or dirty if you don't have to), and watch your engine temps in hot weather (100+ degrees F and the truck will be working hard, allow the engine to cool somewhat at idle when coming to a stop, and don't mind the radiator fan working after shutdown).
2. Get a pivot point projection hitch. I have a Hensley arrow. Propride makes a really good one too. They completely eliminate trailer sway. Adjustment is much simpler than a regular WDH hitch. Again, with a good tow vehicle like the GL, a 3P hitch means you really can't tell you are towing without looking at the trailer. You can usually get one for a couple grand on ebay.
3. I purchased a Prodigy RF brake controller for my GL, because I did not want to install a regular brake controller. It works really well, no install issues at all, and the only permanent part of the install bolts to the trailer.
A very good unit, I think it is about $200, and again, it makes towing easy and painless.
With the setup we have now, my wife can drive our tow rig, and even she comments on how easy it to drive. She even commented that it is easier to tow our 6000 lb trailer than it was to tow a single jet ski.
1. I tow a 29' Jayco FeatherLGT. 5500 lbs dry weight, 6500 lbs max loaded. I used to tow it with an escalade, which I considered very capable (I literally towed all over the Rockies, Grand Canyon, etc . . .). I haven't gone nearly as far with my 2011 GL350, but if anything, it feels more capable. Certainly uses less fuel, and I can virtually ignore the trailer during normal highway driving.
The usual towing rules of thumb apply: Learn to engine brake on downgrades, Manage your tongue weight (really, just try to load everything around the trailer axels, and don't carry water, fresh or dirty if you don't have to), and watch your engine temps in hot weather (100+ degrees F and the truck will be working hard, allow the engine to cool somewhat at idle when coming to a stop, and don't mind the radiator fan working after shutdown).
2. Get a pivot point projection hitch. I have a Hensley arrow. Propride makes a really good one too. They completely eliminate trailer sway. Adjustment is much simpler than a regular WDH hitch. Again, with a good tow vehicle like the GL, a 3P hitch means you really can't tell you are towing without looking at the trailer. You can usually get one for a couple grand on ebay.
3. I purchased a Prodigy RF brake controller for my GL, because I did not want to install a regular brake controller. It works really well, no install issues at all, and the only permanent part of the install bolts to the trailer.
A very good unit, I think it is about $200, and again, it makes towing easy and painless.
With the setup we have now, my wife can drive our tow rig, and even she comments on how easy it to drive. She even commented that it is easier to tow our 6000 lb trailer than it was to tow a single jet ski.
03-11-2015, 07:18 AM
#22
I did an oil change ~2000 miles after the repair, and found about 6 small plastic shavings in the oil filter, which initially freaked me out.
That being said, I checked the work order for my truck, and it doesn't appear that they changed the oil twice, only once. Also, it is my understanding that when you replace major gaskets, this can happen.
I'm anxious to check after the next oil change, and see if I find anything. Also, in going to do an oil metal analysis after the next change to check for any weirdness.
The engine "hitch" at low RPM seems to be gone, thankfully. Italian tuneup FTW. Still have to change the adblue preheater, but now that the car seems to be in good shape, I'll probably do that within the next month.
03-11-2015, 10:19 PM
#23
off topic ....again
Looks like our oil for these machines is changing weight again from Mobil 1. Always has been specified for a 229.51 / 5w/40, now discontinued by MB1, is a 0w30 now. supposed to help with sludging and B20 biodiesel use.
