VentoGT

All--

Been lurking for a bit and am looking to move into a bigger SUV from my GTI with New England winters and trips to the mountains and beach along with more space.

I know that this is a forum so you *may* see more problems on forums, but these trucks sound like a maintenance nightmare. I have owned VWs, BMWs and Porsches in the past. Here are the basics:

• Would be looking at CPO to hedge my bet
• Have 2 diesels close to me that are priced alright but I have read horror stories about the cars shutting down and breaking all sorts of major engine and transmission/oil cooler/etc...GL450 smarter bet?
• I would be taking the truck to Killington, VT and some moderate snowy conditions and trails as well as the beach--will this truck handle well with moderate off road needs? Not going to be doing the Dakar rally, but need to depend on it to handle some deep sand and occasional heavy snow

Finally, I am concerned with not really having the ability to read and reset codes via a tool like VCDS/VAG-COM. Is it really $2K for a STAR tool?

Thanks in advance...I've done a ton of searching but I'd love to hear from some people that have a lot of miles on these trucks as this would ideally be one of those "drive it to 200K" cars for me.

JediJD

Welcome and the jump from a GTi to a GL is quite a leap! I'll give you my $.02. I have two of these, and think well enough of them that I will probably get one for my daughter and her husband to drive (and safely transport grandchild) while they finish grad school. Because I don't really understand diesels in automotive applications, I'm a bit leery, but the rest of the world doesn't seem to have much of a problem with them. I wouldn't be that concerned with a CPO. These things go through tires a bit faster than you expect, airbags (a DIY project that you can master in an afternoon) and some fairly common leaks and burps, but major damage seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Parts are more expensive, operating costs are higher, but in exchange you have an absolutely magnificent daily driver. I think 200k is probably the center of the expectation bell curve with regular maintenance. $2000 seems a little high for Star, and I think you can get most of the electronic tester options in kits under a grand. Having one is handy, but probably overkill. If you have an acquaintance with a 450 (or find one on Craigslist), frankly I'd share the cost...or make a deal with a local mechanic that you'll buy the equipment for him, he can use it at his shop but you get free analysis and save some of the dealer interaction. I've taken both the 450 and 550 off-road, they are both ridiculously capable. Frankly, if ever there is a SHTF event, I want my 450.

VentoGT

Thanks Jedi--appreciate the insight! Any other opinions are appreciated. And yes, I could probably fit my GTI into the GL as a passenger

ertech

Here's my two cents get a diesel that is not bluetech so before 2008 , diesels are great as long as the fuel filter is changed yearly and air filters as well .the battery has to be strong if you are mechanically inclined it is a must to buy the star tool I think they are around six or $700 try Shardul on the W211 AMG forum. Air shock balloons for the aromatic are also a problem and they will go bad replacements are available besides that great truck
Good luck

dagentooboy

I have had my 08 GL320 for a few months now and I love it..... it's a beast on the snow (in Kansas). I did hit some rain as the sun went down and couldn't drive 60MPH on a solid sheet of ice .... but it handled well... My R320 had a transfer case go out and I replaced it myself for $450 (shipped... oil not included). I did the transmission service and I bought a STAR diagnostics cable on ebay. If you look through these forums I did try to start a map with locations (like the vag com locator). I also came from 2 jettas and a passat (all TDIs). I love both of them. As an Engineer I find that the maintenance is really simple and things are intelligently laid out. No offense to the forums but they aren't anything like the TDIClub forums. IDParts has a 2x oil change kit for around $150. It does take 9L of oil per change and the oil is expensive. I got the Green Diesel Engineering tune on the GL and it does seem to improve the MPG by 1-3MPG. It also makes it MUCH more responsive. I have heard that the BlueTec engines generate about 20% better MPG and Power. But I don't have any data to back that up. I get between 20-27.6MPG in the GL320. The R320 gets between 22 and 33MPG.

VentoGT

^Thanks for the reply. This forum isn't as tech-centric as the VW, BMW, or Audi forums I've been on, but I'm guessing it's more about the typical clientele of a mass-market appeal SUV.

amthatiam

Hello and welcome,
I say get the diesel, if you do your home work and get a one/two owner with all service records, it will give you an idea of what has been done, if their is a track record of constant problems and/or if regular service has been preformed.
My first question would be is how mechanically inclined are you? I don't ask that to say that you have to be to own a GL, it would be helpful if you want to save a bunch of money. I do all of my own work. As mentioned by others I would recommend 07-08 as they do not have the urea injection and run flat tires. The urea injection system is at times problematic, you don't have to run the run flat tires but you won't have a spare due to urea tank in the space the spare used to be.

Air suspension is a common service area and the parts are readily available from Arnott at a much better price than the dealer, the system is not that difficult to work on, the air bags themselves are easy. Consider the system to be a routine maintenance area if you keep the car long term.

One issue on all the diesels is the oil cooler seals and the time and effort it takes to repair it when they go, if you can do it yourself it can be done pretty inexpensively. Their is a gentleman that sells a complete kit with all the seals, gaskets, and a new oil cooler all Mercedes parts on the bay for @ $650.00. An independent shop does the repair in the $2000.00 range choose your poison. My understanding is that it is not an if its a when as far as the seals leaking. Allot of the cars have already had the seals done and the service records will show this.

My car has over 140,000 miles and it is in amazing condition and runs just incredibly well. The worst fuel mileage I've gotten is 20 around town and the best was 28.3, I average @24. I did allot of research before I bought and got a one owner with full service records that shows everything that was done, it is black/mac with the P2 package and I could not be happier.

BlownV8

I had ordered a GL320 but decided on the GL450 due to price, performance, and delivery date. I'm glad I did because the diesels seem very problematic compared to the gassers. If you do go with the diesel, go with the 320 and not the 350 like the posters above said. The later diesels seem to have a way too many serious issues that will greatly kill reliability.

VentoGT

Appreciate all the feedback--I think I'm going to narrow it to GL450 and go from there.

CBR Dude

I would stay away from any diesel technology period! Way too many issues with it. We had a diesel back in 2012 and lemoned it! Too many issues and too numerous to list. Also maintaining a diesel can be very costly compared to a gasser. Most people try a run them like a gasser. not all gas station sell diesel fuel. Also you need to remember to pour diesel into it vs. gas otherwise you just hosed it up. The only good thing about a diesel is you get great mileage out of a gallon of fuel. Also diesel fuel is heavily taxed "Truckers tax". In the DC metro area it's about 3.00 per gallon a far cry from 1.99 for reg unleaded or 2.20 for premium.


I would stick with a gasser! If you can land the CPO more power to you. buy the warranty then or you have until the 4/50 runs out. Get the Benz warranty stay away from those third party ones that don't pay out or slip away during the night with your hard earned money. Also if you can finance it thru Benz even better. You can't beat the rates! You pay for all of that through the price of the vehicle because it's over priced at that point, but in the long run your ahead of the game. Once the warranty runs out they plunge in value and no one wants them. Banks and Credit Unions hate them at that point.


While it's under warranty use the dealer to fix it. Once that runs out find yourself a good indy to service it. You'll find the service intervals will be very costly through MB. Parts are very expensive so find yourself an online parts place. Even by paying the postage you're still ahead of what MB wants for most of the parts.


I'm running a 2012 GL550 that I bought last fall with 22K on it. I had a 2011 GL450 with 57K. The 550 does have many nice features that the 450 did not, but to tell you the truth the 450 rode a whole lot better and did not seem to be as cranky as the 550 is. I'm a bit disappointed with the technology especially the infotainment on it compared to my wife's Lexus LX570. I'm OK with it, but my kids think it's old school. It does not Bluetooth the music and it lacks a USB outlet. I'm using an aftermarket bluetooth devise but it's very quirky at best. It uses the MB cord that's located in the glove box. I'm not impressed with it at all. If you are running an iPhone your options are very limited. I'm not sure about an android based phone as the wife and kids are all on apple devises. I would sync it up first so that you know what you're getting yourself into before you get disappointed yourself.

dagentooboy

I would still consider the diesel if you are going to buy an 08 or earlier. I lived in Spain for a while and I learned what diesels are capable of. I won't buy anything else at this point. We now have a 3 month old so we are a family of 4 (2 in car seats). That's what drove us out of our TDI Jetta. I thought it was the same engine thats is in the Sprinters that FedEx drives for hundreds of thousands of miles.... I know diesels get a bad rap and the Bluetec additives are a PAIN but there are a lot of benefits to a compression-combustion engine vs a spark-combustion engine.

amthatiam

Oh, forgot to mention, these trucks are very off road capable, I've had mine trough some nastiness and no worries. Either way you go do your research as the gassers have all the same problems minus the oil cooler seals, though tha gas prices have dropped substantially the 450 love fuel just sayin. Good luck.

Dan

BlownV8

The basic problems they all suffer from is trans valve body and air struts. Some also suffer from power steering racks. The diesel suffers from a few more issues: contaminated fuel can just about total the vehicle due to the cost of repairs, oil cooler seal leaks can grenade the engine, bad timing chain tensioners, frequent fuel filter changes, adblue system can have issues, and a few others.

The gassers suffer from leaking cam plug seals - very cheap and easy repair. I had a water pump fail but I've yet to hear of another with the same issue. Another poster said worn cam lobes but I have yet to hear about it any others so must be pretty rare. Some have the flappy valve in the intake fail but I believe it is pretty rare. I have around 200k miles and I have yet to see it. All in all, the gasser is much more reliable with much cheaper long term repair costs. More fuel usage but with Diesel being around 25% to 30% higher in my area there is no fuel cost savings with the diesel at this time.

Blkvip

as far as being worried about codes or anything check out these guys. easily the best Mercedes shop in Mass. http://www.virtualeas.com/index.html

CBR Dude

I would stick with the gasser! Unless you going for the CPO with a warranty and can tolerate the down time. Also read the fine print if you are buying an extended warranty. Most of them will NOT cover the DEF fluid components and those are the parts that seem to fail all over the place. Also the federal emissions warranty does not cover many of those parts either. I have several friends that have the diesel technology are between a rock and hard place and are facing thousands of dollars in repair bills. One does not take the vehicle beyond the city limits and rents a vehicle. The other has a gasser and uses that when leaving town.


We had ours for 7 months, most of that was waiting to surrender it back to the manufacture. There is a time line you have to follow once you pull the trigger to lemon. It's not a 7 day process. Day 3 of ownership is when we started having issues and left my wife stranded. After that it was all down hill.


The sad portion of all of this was both friends raved how great it was to have the diesel technology and that's how we got sucked into it. They had ample time to lemon theirs as well, but decided to stick it out. Had we knew how bad it was we would never have bought it in the first place. When we checked out, the manufacture rep told us to stay away from the diesel technology even the other German diesel vehicles as they were no better. We drove straight over to Lexus and bought a CPO LX570. We now have 92K on it and it's never seen any down time. My wife actually prefers we use that vs. the GL550 when traveling. We used it this weekend taking my daughter back to school in SWVA.


To sum up the diesel technology... We did not fall for the misery likes company theory, which is what I've found ran rapid with this. People won't trash what they have poured countless time and money into and have a tendency to lure others into.

cc4sc

I was in the same boat as you about 2 years ago (December 2012). I read all the reviews, especially user reviews and I ignored them...more accurately, I decided to proceed anyway and I've regretted it ever since.

I bought a 2010 GL350 CPO with 42K miles in Dec 2012. I have 72K now. Only minor issues until about 60K miles; then big issues starting popping up. Like many have said, "this GL is great WHEN IT WORKS...", but absolutely a nightmare when it came to all the issues; big and small. This is easily the most unreliable car I've ever owned, in terms of full-on break down in the middle of the freeway and minor issues that just seem to multiple.

There's way too many issues for me to type here, but just know that if it can break or malfunction, it probably will (air suspension, hatch won't close, windows won't open or close, malfunctioning warning light coming on all the time, key won't crank start the car...fiddle with it some and it finally starts...haven't completely failed yet but it's pretty scary when you're 300 miles away from home, drive-train isssues all over place, not upshifting properly, downshifting super harsh, way more than it should)...worst is that often times, dealer cannnot specify the problem and just told me "we think you missed a system update" and even though it still has 4 months left, MANY of my issues were not covered. Besides paying for routine maintenance and close to $3,000 on tires, alignment, brakes, etc, I think I've also spent at an additional $2,500 on repairs that were not covered (I've owned this car for about 24 months!.

I do believe the diesel has more issues than gas, but I also think the entire design has many flaws. For example, we ended up dying right on the freeway in LA (in Calabasas). We found out (or at least was told) that a screw that held a hose that connects to the power train had broke off, which led the hose to fall off and the car lost complete power. So this CRUCIAL element of the car is held onto be ONE screw? So this gets fixed and I get my car back and WITHIN 12 hours later, my car DIED ON THE FREEWAY AGAIN (this time in rush hour on the 60 FWY while trying to take the family an Angels game, which we completely missed)! This time with diesel fuel leaking (when angled onto flatbed, diesel was gushing out). Both times were with wife and 2 young kids. I cannot wait to get rid of this death trap!

Forget the logo, all the advertising BS. Do your own research and think worst case scenario. These are just not well-designed or built vehicles. Don't think "German engineering". These are built in Alabama!

Good luck!

BlownV8

Seems like the 2010 GL350 is the poster child for issues. My 2007 GL450 has been very reliable with very low operating costs and much more dependable than my last German made MB. Don't blame the Tuscaloosa plant for the issues. Mine is screwed together very tightly..

CBR Dude

We had so many issues I can't list them either. As soon as we got the vehicle back from the shop it was right back in. Same problem and or additional ones.


The dealer did it's best to keep me informed on the status of the repair. while our was in the shop we were always in a loaner or rental. The neighbors kept thinking we were rich always having a different vehicle in the drive. Don't I wish!


The last straw was the steering failing. At that point we got it fixed and parked it until the day came to surrender it. It became very unreliable to leave the city limits. I had the GM and Service director on speed dial. The towing company and I were best friends.

dagentooboy

Man that is bad.... I have an 07 and an 08 and the only issue I have has is the transfer case on the R320 (we bought it cheap knowing it had issues). sounds like 2009 and on have a lot more problems or the previous owner worked all the bugs out of mine

cc4sc

Like I said...too many for me to list, but you reminded me. So I was in a residential street trying to do a 3-point turn to park on the other side of the street where there was shade. I turned and wanted to back up to go into my 2nd point turn...and the car would NOT go in reverse. I was literally stuck in the middle of the street for a good 30-40 seconds. Good thing it was a small residential street. I never was able to back up, but luckily I was able to squeeze in my U-turn without having to do a 3-point. Just another 1 of several scary situations I've encountered with the GL. Even my crappy 12 year-old (at the time) Buick Century never saw anything like it.

drgeeforce

My 2010 Gl350 CPO w/ 29K had only a few issues: both suspension bags leaking(warranty), Oil cooler leak(warranty), fuel system replacement, but insurance picked up the tab, 1) I blame previous owner and 2) MBUSA for the worst CPO warranty, but maintenance was always done by myself. Adblue refill is easy(Home Depot/Walmart). Oil and filter changes are easy with an extractor every 10K (FCP Euro). Air filter at 40 and 80K(FCP Euro), Fuel filter(FCPEuro) @ 30K and 60K, BTW I installed a Racor water separator. Brake pads replaced @ 65K (AutohausAZ), Shell 134 Transmission fluid (Ebay) and filter(AutohausAZ) @70K. I dumped the run flats for 275/55R20s(Sam's Club) and bought a full size spare rim(Ebay). I add 10oz of PowerService to every other fill up and I add 1/2 bottle of Diesel911 on trips to the ski slopes. Otherwise my MPG is 19 city 30 Hwy 24Combined. I tow weekend toys without a concern. My family of 6 travels VERY comfortably across America with a bladder busting 600+ mile range and I laugh at steep grades and mountain passes. Finding quality, low-priced diesel is not hard with the GasBuddy app and I smile when I see 450s and especially the 550s at the gas station. This vehicle met our needs.

BlownV8

How much did your insurance pay for the fuel system replacement?

drgeeforce

Insurance was willing to pay $15K but, I hated the Dealership service advisor accusing me of: putting AdBlue into the fuel tank, inferring that I used BioDiesel that caused the failure, telling MBUSA that the owner modified the vehicle when I did not. I was 6 months into my CPO and I knew better than to risk losing the warranty. I went to another dealer who said it happens infrequently, but it does happen. They only charged my insurance for a new tank, sender unit, high pressure lines and pump. The injectors were ok, so they came down $2000.

sak335

OP, I think that the GL is a great vehicle. Like all vehicles, they have some issues, but if you buy a well-maintained one, you should be OK.


I have a 2012 GL350 and have owned it 2 years and nearly 30k miles. It's been in the shop once for a NoX sensor replacement under warranty and for them to adjust the rear hatch (why do it myself when they'll wash it for me after they do it?) Aside from that it has been regular maintenance only, which is slightly more involved than a gasoline vehicle, and more expensive as well. Diesel prices are not aligned with gasoline right now so the economies are not what they used to be, but I tow and like the torque and don't like wasting resources...


You also asked about off-road prowess. I run winter tires this time of year (Bridgestone Blizzaks) and it is unstoppable. Last year, for the fun of it, I ran it through my property through 3 foot drifts and about a foot of regular snow and it didn't slow me down in the least. We also hit the Outer Banks every year for vacation and run the GL on the sand above Corolla with no issues.

sak335

dgreeforce, where do you put the full size spare? Does it fit in the spare well if you move the Styrofoam piece?