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Will speak to dealer but in my opinion it can't be anything to do with the temperature changes especially in UK, rubber doesn't alter much in our temperatures.
I am coming away from LR because of the quality issues with their cars and certainly wouldn't accept them from MB.
If they believe what they are saying then surely it should be in the literature for their cars that winter tyres should be fitted below 7 degrees centigrade, absolute nonsense.
Hopefully you will get your car sorted, keep us up to date with what's happening.
Will speak to dealer but in my opinion it can't be anything to do with the temperature changes especially in UK, rubber doesn't alter much in our temperatures.
I am coming away from LR because of the quality issues with their cars and certainly wouldn't accept them from MB.
If they believe what they are saying then surely it should be in the literature for their cars that winter tyres should be fitted below 7 degrees centigrade, absolute nonsense.
Hopefully you will get your car sorted, keep us up to date with what's happening.
i fully agree. I'm in the greater metropolitan area, the temperature difference aren't anything to write home about. It's a lot of waffle and there is something just not right.
Still find it it amazing how our American cousins on here, many of whom are in much colder climates just don't experience this.
i have noticed this as well, although it seems to be to a lesser extent. it only seems to happen in my garage at work, when there is water/the tires are wet. otherwise it doesn't happen. i have 20" AMG wheels on mine, all season tires.
i have noticed this as well, although it seems to be to a lesser extent. it only seems to happen in my garage at work, when there is water/the tires are wet. otherwise it doesn't happen. i have 20" AMG wheels on mine, all season tires.
thanks for letting us know. And is yours a LHD or RHD vehicle? (Sorry I can't see any profiles on the phone to deduct that).
2016 GLC 250d AMG pack, 2017 GLC Coupe 250d AMG pack , 2002 BMW 330Ci convertible, 2021 BMX X1 sD20i
Besides issue of RHD, is there any correlation between standard steel springs or optional air suspension ?
We have standard steel springs.
My wife's GLC Coupe we have ordered air suspension, but it appears MB here in Oz have reverted to normal tyres on all new GLC Coupes! No option for runflats, no spare wheel, but air compressor and goo now supplied in boot.
Will be interesting to compare Wagon and Coupe on same street circuit to see any similarities!
Will know more mid Feb when Coupe is due to be delivered.
I have the same problem with my GLC43 with 21" wheels/summer tires. I only notice it when turning at slow speeds on wet roads - particularly, pulling in and out of my driveway. Since I just got the car, and it's winter in Seattle, the weather is pretty much always wet and below 45F (I would imagine very similar climate to the UK). I spoke to the dealership about the issue, and they said that "all AMG cars have this problem", and MB is "working on a fix". Not sure what kind of fix they're working on, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm surprised to hear that some of you are having the same problem with all-season tires... That doesn't make sense. Summer tires are known to not perform well in cold weather (they harden), so I was somewhat understanding of the issue. I test drove a new Porsche 911 4S (AWD) the other day, and experienced similar tire skipping (not as bad though) when making a sharp turn out of its parking space on semi-wet road with cold tires.
Since the summer tires that come on the 21" wheels are not ideal for Seattle winters, I'm ordering a set of winter wheels/tires for the GLC43 to use during the winter months. I'm going to get 235/55R19s all around, in case anyone is interested. I'll update this thread if problem persists.
Thanks for starting this thread dejongj - this is clearly a real issue, particularly in cold weather and genuinely worries me. If indeed this can only be rectified in winter with winter tyres then these should be supplied in addition free of charge (however, honest John website suggests this isn't really a fix at all). Alternatively, MB should be correcting the steering geometry as they have clearly made an error here. I will be taking this issue up with my dealer immediately, and will cancel my order if I don't get an acceptable response.
I don't believe the winter tyres are a fix, it is just masking an pre-existing issue. I can fully comprehend why it will mask it, but in all my years of driving I've never owned a car that required winter tyres to prevent this from happening. Also it isn't limited to just one make/model/size of tyres, it does it on all of them. It is also not limited to GLC AMG models, it does it on 250d and 220d models as well. I got in touch with a co-worker last night from the previous company I worked at and he doesn't go online as well they aren't allowed And yes he's been in to the dealer for his GLC250d with that problem and was fobbed off as that it is normal.
The guy whose video I posted has now done 9,000 miles and about 2 inch of the inside of his tyres is stripped bold upon investigation.
I really wouldn't like that on these expensive tyres
I wouldn't be hasty and cancel straight away, but keep your options open. Listening to my wife the Maserati Levante is back on the table if this doesn't work out. Although I expect a whole different world of pain with that one
This is a very informative thread. As I understand it, we are saying that the Ackerman effect is inherent in any car but generally mitigated by the flex in the tyre sidewall (as per MB). However, the evidence suggests that the resultant crabbing is far more pronounced in the GLC than it should be. Factors -
1. Weather - colder means stiffer therefore worse
2. Runflats - stiffer. Also interesting that MB appear to have stopped supplying with run-flats ("mea culpa"??)
3. Lower profile - less sidewall/flex therefore worse
4. Steel springs- probably less flexible than air (particularly when cold) and may explain why some have had it on 18s
5. Winter rubber - softer therefore better
The worst should be the 21s on run flats (in winter) probably followed by the steel sprung diesels on 20s with run flats.
In addition, I suspect that there's claerly an element of different personal toleration of the issue (how many near full locks one needs daily for example) and probably quite a bit of variation car-by-car in how pronounced it is.
However it is clearly a problem as it has gone beyond an occasional issue at full lock to what is posted in the vid above which is very disappointing and unacceptable.
In my view, it is compounded by how hard MB pushed the lower profile tyres particularly the 21s in the GLC43 (which look spectacular) in all those early press shots back in April. I am also now a little suspicious that no press cars were made available (and hence no road tests) in the summer (when I was desperate to see one) and , in the UK at least, they only appeared in the autumn (with 19s - and I think non RFT). At the same time, the run-flats seem to have been discontinued which tells us that they are fully aware of the issue.
Just my take on it!
Well, there you go. I've also contacted Honest John and more seem to have done that. It is now escalated to a news item on its own and not just as part of a car review.
GLC43AMG Polar White, 21" Alloys, Prem Plus Package, LED Intelligent Light, 360 Camera
I have had a few emails back from MB CS and they keep repeating it is expected behaviour etc etc.. and I have told them in the last email...
I am stating that there is a fundamental flaw with the way the car is handling. It is not just myself who is having this issue, another friend of mine is also suffering from the same issue. There are plenty of MB GLC Owners who are also complaining about this on the MB Forums.
Your colleague told me to get Winter Tyres but if you read my previous reply to them, it stated that my previous car a ML 350 also had 21" alloys and never suffered from this. Even though, in the same method, the user manual stated that if the temperature was below 7 degree, MB advised Winter tyres. If that car did not suffer from this issue, why is the GLC? And it is not just mine that is suffering. I can provide you plenty of forums where this is highlighted. Also, I purchased my car in beginning of Nov 2016 and then, the temperatures were pretty low so why did the car not come with Winter tyres as this affects safety of the car and its occupants.
So my point is, there is no point me going to a dealer who will be reading from the same sheet as you are and tell me that. I want someone from MB to tell me why the car is doing what it is doing and why they consider it to be safe, when I can very easily highlight the safety issue with this juddering and it driving the car into opposite traffic.
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Lets see what they come back with.. might contact MB Finance too as the car is thru them.
The advice for winter tyres below 7 degrees relates to grip and is generic advice for any car. It does not relate specifically to this issue on this car.
I think Gobiman summarised parts of it neatly. And as per the honest John reports, how do winter tyres make a difference in Sydney, Australia as they've had reports from down under regarding the issue.
This is about how the car has been setup in my opinion, I've had the same tyres on my GL. Sure you have some reduced braking and potentially grip in the winter. The statement regarding winter tyres is a general one, and I've lived in countries where you really want them. Not to avoid scrubbing of the summer tyres, no never for that reason, it was in order to brake and maintain control a bit longer over the car.
South East of UK, just doesn't have the kind of weather to warrant that at all.
The advice for winter tyres below 7 degrees relates to grip and is generic advice for any car. It does not relate specifically to this issue on this car.
Icurrently have on order an AMG GLC 43, with a likely delivery in April2017. Through a number of forums andonline car sites, I have learned of a particular problem with the GLC whichinvolves front tyre ’scrubbing’ or ‘crabbing’ under full lock which is worse incolder conditions, and that this effect can be quite violent. I also understand that the stock response isthat this is ‘normal’ or ‘change towinter tyres’. Neither of these isacceptable in my view for what is clearly an error in the steeringgeometry. I understand the AckermanSteering principle (which causes this) but also understand that the effect canbe engineered out. I have proof of thisas I have driven 4WD cars from BMW, Volvo, and Lexus and never encountered thisissue. It is clear that this is afundamental and widespread problem based on forums, and the following article.
I am very concerned about this issue, and am not prepared to spend £50k on a carwhich has this type of fault. I’d begrateful if you were able to provide me with some comfort as to MB’s responseto this issue, and confirm that the steering geometry of the car is beingre-evaluated. In the absence of anacceptable response, I will be forced to cancel my order.
GLC43AMG Polar White, 21" Alloys, Prem Plus Package, LED Intelligent Light, 360 Camera
OK.. so having rejected all the emails I got from CS and now had a phone call from the AMG UK CS. I explained to them the very same thing I said in the emails. They will contact my local dealer and ask them to review the car's handling. Once they have the information from that, they will advise what the outcome can be. I am sticking to the gun that Winter Tyres will not solve this. I suspect this may be to do with the alignment etc that someone else on this thread has mentioned. Will keep this thread updated.
And to be honest, under UK law, the contract isn't with the manufacturer, it is with the supplier. And, if there is any credit involved, even just a deposit on a credit card , then there is liability for a satisfactory product with the finance provider as well.
To me this is the reason I'm not really interested in what MB UK does about it, that is for the dealer to resolve and get authorisation.
There is some good information for the UK market on what it could mean to reject a vehicle and what preceding case law may be taken into account.
As I really do like everything else about the car, I want them to take it serious and look into this issue with an aim to provide a fix for it. I rather had it didn't have to come to rejecting the vehicle. But I'm willing to do that if they cannot resolve this. It is good, but there are alternatives with compromises in areas that I find less important than the ability to drive around corners.
Agree with you JP (if I can call you that...) although a 2 pronged attack through both dealer and MB might be best.
My dealer just called me - they're aware of the issue (which he explained to me in some detail, and was completely upfront about its existence) but haven't had anything other than mild complaints as yet. He is now going to speak to MB directly to find out whether the issue is leading to any action by the manufacturer.
Like everyone else, I experience the same problem when I get the GLC out of the garage on a cold morning. It soon goes away and I suppose I can live with it. Unless, of course, I get to 5,000 miles and find the outside strip of the front tyres shredded.
But suppose, just suppose, that MB find a fix for the 2018 model, as they surely must. Where are we going to be, we mugs with the earlier versions. Will our cars be saleable?
That is why we have get a fix on our present motors that goes beyond the pathetic winter tyres panacea.
I received a call from MB Customer services which is good - but content of the call was bad. Just the usual cr@p about the width of the tyres, needing to fit winter tyres, not a safety or performance issue, blah blah blah. My response - presumably then, cars delivered to customers in the winter months come with winter tyres fitted...? No sir, they're not came the (already anticipated, and sheepish) response. I told him that the 'fault' and their response to it, was unacceptable for a 'premium' car maker such as Mercedes. I also told him that when I spend £50k on a car, I don't simply worry about performance and safety - all elements of the vehicle should be superior and fit for purpose IMV. Very disappointing- I will be seriously considering cancelling my order!!
01-02-2017, 10:00 AM
And yes he's been in to the dealer for his GLC250d with that problem and was fobbed off as that it is normal.
I am normally called much worse hehehe
