That *Oil Change* Contraption
12-17-2010, 01:22 PM
#26
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Nissan GT-R BE / '12 Ducati-1199 Panigale S / '12 C300-4M Loaded/GLK350-4M Loaded
Wow, you need to calm down and discuss this in a civil manner. Just cool it ... If you are that ignorant thinking that you know best then by all means do what you want and leave us alone. YOU asked for opinions and I offered mine which happens to be inline with the manufacturer's. I honestly did not read your entire post because provided nothing of substance. Your last question about how old I am proves your childish behavior. Do what you want, change your oil anyway you like, and change it every 3K miles just as you ve been taught. You know best, you're the man...
12-17-2010, 07:21 PM
#29
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I think he did, because it's faster and easier to remove oil that way. And its effects are not bad enough to make any difference over first 80-100k or so.
To prove any of your points in my mind we need 2 sets of cars for next 10-15 years. 100 cars with oil changed suction way and another 100 cars with oil changed the old fashion. And then we can see if engine failure pattern emerges.
To prove any of your points in my mind we need 2 sets of cars for next 10-15 years. 100 cars with oil changed suction way and another 100 cars with oil changed the old fashion. And then we can see if engine failure pattern emerges.
12-17-2010, 08:00 PM
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I think he did, because it's faster and easier to remove oil that way. And its effects are not bad enough to make any difference over first 80-100k or so.
So how does Mercedes Benz benefit by allowing this? What do they get for making it easier (saving a small amount of time per car) for their independent dealer network? Especially if the suction method will prove problematic for a motor after 80K-100K or so!
To prove any of your points in my mind we need 2 sets of cars for next 10-15 years. 100 cars with oil changed suction way and another 100 cars with oil changed the old fashion. And then we can see if engine failure pattern emerges.
So how does Mercedes Benz benefit by allowing this? What do they get for making it easier (saving a small amount of time per car) for their independent dealer network? Especially if the suction method will prove problematic for a motor after 80K-100K or so!
To prove any of your points in my mind we need 2 sets of cars for next 10-15 years. 100 cars with oil changed suction way and another 100 cars with oil changed the old fashion. And then we can see if engine failure pattern emerges.
It would be nice to know if dealers recommend any type of engine flush after 100K miles or so.
Last edited by aggst1; 12-17-2010 at 08:06 PM.
12-17-2010, 08:04 PM
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I think he did, because it's faster and easier to remove oil that way. And its effects are not bad enough to make any difference over first 80-100k or so.
To prove any of your points in my mind we need 2 sets of cars for next 10-15 years. 100 cars with oil changed suction way and another 100 cars with oil changed the old fashion. And then we can see if engine failure pattern emerges.
To prove any of your points in my mind we need 2 sets of cars for next 10-15 years. 100 cars with oil changed suction way and another 100 cars with oil changed the old fashion. And then we can see if engine failure pattern emerges.
12-17-2010, 08:11 PM
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...
How is that an answer to my question? You are talking about the dealer as if they are part of Mercedes Benz the manufacturer...
Again, calm down and read, I will make the font a bit bigger for your comfort: What's in it for MB the manufacturer? Why would they jeopardize their name for their dealer's convenience?
This comment sadly proves my point about true ignorance. And by the way, we are not a “neighborhood repair shop”. We do not "repair" anything. We are custom engine builders for Nissan/NISMO and some of the regions top performers. We have operations worldwide and have been featured on the Speed Channel, HDTHR etc.
First, dealerships have only one goal in mind, and that is to turn a profit no matter what. Second, quick oil and fluid change procedures are not "recommended" by the "factory", in fact if you were to read the service procedure as outlined in their official service manual, it does not specify which procedure to perform, it simply says to "drain" the oil, fluid etc. Factory service techs are trained to do whatever they need to do to keep their jobs and not jeopardize new car warranties. Therefore they routinely run these and any type of new procedure past their Tech-Line supervisors first before they start the work. Granted, oil changes are not rocket science and should not be reviewed by Tech-Line. But quick changes have been around since 1960 or so and were adopted by the service departments of all "repair shops" as standard operation whether they be at your local Shell Station or in the dealership pit. It makes no difference because time is money. The more vehicles they can turn around in a day, the more money they stand to make. To lift every car for a $30 oil change is too time consuming and ridiculous.
But if you believe for one second that they only have you and your car's long term (post warranty) well being at heart and not their bottom line, then you're not only naive, you're stupid as well. The entire operation is to make a steady flow of cash, with a little friendly smile thrown in every now and then for good measure. You could leave the factory oil in your car for the entire warranty period and chances are good that nothing will happen to justify a major repair under the warranty. So using a suction pump during the warranty period will not have any detrimental effect on your engine, and that's all they care about because after that, you're on your own!
First, dealerships have only one goal in mind, and that is to turn a profit no matter what. Second, quick oil and fluid change procedures are not "recommended" by the "factory", in fact if you were to read the service procedure as outlined in their official service manual, it does not specify which procedure to perform, it simply says to "drain" the oil, fluid etc. Factory service techs are trained to do whatever they need to do to keep their jobs and not jeopardize new car warranties. Therefore they routinely run these and any type of new procedure past their Tech-Line supervisors first before they start the work. Granted, oil changes are not rocket science and should not be reviewed by Tech-Line. But quick changes have been around since 1960 or so and were adopted by the service departments of all "repair shops" as standard operation whether they be at your local Shell Station or in the dealership pit. It makes no difference because time is money. The more vehicles they can turn around in a day, the more money they stand to make. To lift every car for a $30 oil change is too time consuming and ridiculous.
But if you believe for one second that they only have you and your car's long term (post warranty) well being at heart and not their bottom line, then you're not only naive, you're stupid as well. The entire operation is to make a steady flow of cash, with a little friendly smile thrown in every now and then for good measure. You could leave the factory oil in your car for the entire warranty period and chances are good that nothing will happen to justify a major repair under the warranty. So using a suction pump during the warranty period will not have any detrimental effect on your engine, and that's all they care about because after that, you're on your own!
How is that an answer to my question? You are talking about the dealer as if they are part of Mercedes Benz the manufacturer...
Again, calm down and read, I will make the font a bit bigger for your comfort: What's in it for MB the manufacturer? Why would they jeopardize their name for their dealer's convenience?
Last edited by aggst1; 12-17-2010 at 09:08 PM.
12-18-2010, 08:33 AM
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The answer to your question is there in plain sight deep inside my post for all who wish to see it. Obviously you continue to refuse to do so for reasons I cannot explain. I'm tired of having to repeat myself over and over for you.
Therefore it was not "another smart remark" but utter disgust at your repeated attempts to *flame* this forum. Sorry, it will not work, take it elsewhere. So if you wish to continue this BS game, do so off this thread!
Thank you.
Therefore it was not "another smart remark" but utter disgust at your repeated attempts to *flame* this forum. Sorry, it will not work, take it elsewhere. So if you wish to continue this BS game, do so off this thread!
Thank you.
Last edited by MBRedux; 12-18-2010 at 06:33 PM.
12-18-2010, 12:00 PM
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The answer to your question is there in plain sight deep inside my post for all who wish to see it. Obviously you continue to refuse to do so for reasons I cannot explain. I'm tired of having to repeat myself over and over for you.
Therefore it was not "another smart remark" but utter disgust at your repeated attempts to *flame* this forum. Sorry, it wil not work, take it elsewhere. So if you wish to continue this BS game, do so off this thread!
Thank you.
Therefore it was not "another smart remark" but utter disgust at your repeated attempts to *flame* this forum. Sorry, it wil not work, take it elsewhere. So if you wish to continue this BS game, do so off this thread!
Thank you.
12-19-2010, 11:09 PM
#43
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GLK 350X :0
is it safer of having 2 oil changes in a year....instead of 1?
MBRedux, I can see some disadvantage to your comments....however are there no top technicians at MB who know about this?
MBRedux, I can see some disadvantage to your comments....however are there no top technicians at MB who know about this?
12-20-2010, 01:56 PM
#44
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Sorry if repost, but really shows how many variables are in the equasion. Air filter, oil filter, oil itself, driving conditions, how well engine is made etc.
http://www.autoeducation.com/autoshop101/oil-change-1.htm
aggst1,
If you think that car manufacturer or dealer will recommend the best thing for your car, it's very naive. Car company is profit seeking corporation. They are not in the business of making cars that last the longest, because they would go out of business this way. Their sole goal is to make you get new car. Of course car reliability affects its resale value which affects how likely you are to buy it. Dealer will also make money again from taking in car at trade-in and selling at 5-10k higher price. So reliability in the first 10 years is important to image but more so for dealer's profits. But when car approaches 10 years and 150k miles, its retail price is so low that nobody really cares if it can run another 200k miles. MB dealer is not going to resell 10 year old car for $500 profit to a customer, cars will go to car auctions and 3rd world countries. So all car manufacturer is interested in is that car runs well first 7-10 years. That's also where servicing cars is also big part of the equation and reducing service times and cost is much more important than whether car lasts 100k or 200k or 400k. This is also why they are not going to put the best oil filter or best air filter, they put what's good enough to keep car running well for next 10 years not more not less.
Also car manufacturers should care less about long term car realibility than dealers. They only make money on new cars, dealers make money on used cars as well. Prolly even more so. But neither one cares about if car last 10 years of 20 years. And let's be honest, engine is not first thing that will fail anyways even if heavily abused.
http://www.autoeducation.com/autoshop101/oil-change-1.htm
aggst1,
If you think that car manufacturer or dealer will recommend the best thing for your car, it's very naive. Car company is profit seeking corporation. They are not in the business of making cars that last the longest, because they would go out of business this way. Their sole goal is to make you get new car. Of course car reliability affects its resale value which affects how likely you are to buy it. Dealer will also make money again from taking in car at trade-in and selling at 5-10k higher price. So reliability in the first 10 years is important to image but more so for dealer's profits. But when car approaches 10 years and 150k miles, its retail price is so low that nobody really cares if it can run another 200k miles. MB dealer is not going to resell 10 year old car for $500 profit to a customer, cars will go to car auctions and 3rd world countries. So all car manufacturer is interested in is that car runs well first 7-10 years. That's also where servicing cars is also big part of the equation and reducing service times and cost is much more important than whether car lasts 100k or 200k or 400k. This is also why they are not going to put the best oil filter or best air filter, they put what's good enough to keep car running well for next 10 years not more not less.
Also car manufacturers should care less about long term car realibility than dealers. They only make money on new cars, dealers make money on used cars as well. Prolly even more so. But neither one cares about if car last 10 years of 20 years. And let's be honest, engine is not first thing that will fail anyways even if heavily abused.
Last edited by NYCGLK; 12-20-2010 at 01:59 PM.
12-20-2010, 03:16 PM
#45
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Mazda 5, GLK350
Anyone who loves cars will use the best method
I don't see why prestigous manufacturers like MBenz would skimp out on the right oil changing method and purely aim for profits. High volume ones like Toyota and Honda would skimp out cuz they aim for super high volume sales for high profits.
If this oil change method does not work in the long run why should I pay for the initial premium for the brand and car.
It is possible that some people simply never accept changes in methods because the old one works well enough for the past decade. If this new method doesn't work I think no one would be using it. There are mind barriers in acceptance but I think we should just accept the fact that people have their own preferences be it old or new. People love their cars and wants what they think is best for them, either dealership recommended or self experience.
So I think this thread should be locked and don't attack others for what they want to do because there is no concrete fact for which method is better
I don't see why prestigous manufacturers like MBenz would skimp out on the right oil changing method and purely aim for profits. High volume ones like Toyota and Honda would skimp out cuz they aim for super high volume sales for high profits.
If this oil change method does not work in the long run why should I pay for the initial premium for the brand and car.
It is possible that some people simply never accept changes in methods because the old one works well enough for the past decade. If this new method doesn't work I think no one would be using it. There are mind barriers in acceptance but I think we should just accept the fact that people have their own preferences be it old or new. People love their cars and wants what they think is best for them, either dealership recommended or self experience.
So I think this thread should be locked and don't attack others for what they want to do because there is no concrete fact for which method is better
12-20-2010, 05:44 PM
#46
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Anyone who loves cars will use the best method
I don't see why prestigous manufacturers like MBenz would skimp out on the right oil changing method and purely aim for profits. High volume ones like Toyota and Honda would skimp out cuz they aim for super high volume sales for high profits.
If this oil change method does not work (Oh it works! Obviously it works, no one never said it didn't work, but so does an automated car-wash. The question is, would you run your car through one or would you prefer to hand wash it using a soft sponge? Same thing.) in the long run why should I pay for the initial premium for the brand and car. It is possible that some people simply never accept changes in methods because the old one works well enough for the past decade. (Good point. The old method is the best IMO!) If this new method doesn't work I think no one would be using it. (Again, all methods do "work". But there is a big difference between something that just works, works good, works better, works best from something that doesn't work at all. I have seen the inside of hundreds and hundreds of engines, more so than my Mercedes tech who services my wifes car... (who by the way drops by our shop every once in awhile to watch what we're doing) and from my experience, I just thought I would vocalize what I have found to be true. Take it or leave it. I, as anyone else here on MBWorld should be allowed to state their opinion. ) There are mind barriers in acceptance but I think we should just accept the fact that people have their own preferences be it old or new. People love their cars and wants what they think is best for them, either dealership recommended or self experience.
So I think this thread should be locked (I don't think so. In an open society, differences in opinion is a good thing. That's the only way a society can progress.) and don't attack others for what they want to do because there is no concrete fact (My 38 years of racing experience is all the concrete evidence I need, I just wanted to share it with those who may be open minded.) for which method is better
I don't see why prestigous manufacturers like MBenz would skimp out on the right oil changing method and purely aim for profits. High volume ones like Toyota and Honda would skimp out cuz they aim for super high volume sales for high profits.
If this oil change method does not work (Oh it works! Obviously it works, no one never said it didn't work, but so does an automated car-wash. The question is, would you run your car through one or would you prefer to hand wash it using a soft sponge? Same thing.) in the long run why should I pay for the initial premium for the brand and car. It is possible that some people simply never accept changes in methods because the old one works well enough for the past decade. (Good point. The old method is the best IMO!) If this new method doesn't work I think no one would be using it. (Again, all methods do "work". But there is a big difference between something that just works, works good, works better, works best from something that doesn't work at all. I have seen the inside of hundreds and hundreds of engines, more so than my Mercedes tech who services my wifes car... (who by the way drops by our shop every once in awhile to watch what we're doing) and from my experience, I just thought I would vocalize what I have found to be true. Take it or leave it. I, as anyone else here on MBWorld should be allowed to state their opinion. ) There are mind barriers in acceptance but I think we should just accept the fact that people have their own preferences be it old or new. People love their cars and wants what they think is best for them, either dealership recommended or self experience.
So I think this thread should be locked (I don't think so. In an open society, differences in opinion is a good thing. That's the only way a society can progress.) and don't attack others for what they want to do because there is no concrete fact (My 38 years of racing experience is all the concrete evidence I need, I just wanted to share it with those who may be open minded.) for which method is better
12-20-2010, 06:53 PM
#47
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Quick question: If the suction method is so good why does MB (and other makers) continue to include a drain plug in the oil pan? 
12-20-2010, 08:36 PM
#48
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I would have been upset if they didn't. Why would I want to pay MB's rates for an oil change? Just so I would have to rely on them. Not everyone has a pump. Like I said previously getting the car up in the air gives your mechanic the ability to check so many more things.
This thing has been beat to death soooooo much we should just put it out of its misery. I think MBRedux was well intended.
This thing has been beat to death soooooo much we should just put it out of its misery. I think MBRedux was well intended.
12-20-2010, 09:02 PM
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Also, having a drain plug saves you from having to flip the car over if a foreign object accidentally enters the motor...
Last edited by aggst1; 12-20-2010 at 09:07 PM.
12-20-2010, 09:14 PM
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I would have been upset if they didn't. Why would I want to pay MB's rates for an oil change? Just so I would have to rely on them. Not everyone has a pump. Like I said previously getting the car up in the air gives your mechanic the ability to check so many more things. I have seen pumps selling for about $80, so cost is not an issue. It offsets the cost of ramps or a jack that you would no longer have to buy, if you are a DIYer.
This thing has been beat to death soooooo much we should just put it out of its misery. I also agree that we beat this to death. All boys and girls can draw their own conclusions.
I think MBRedux was well intended.
This thing has been beat to death soooooo much we should just put it out of its misery. I also agree that we beat this to death. All boys and girls can draw their own conclusions.
I think MBRedux was well intended.
Last edited by aggst1; 12-20-2010 at 09:29 PM.
