GLKMM

Because of an unfortunate argument arisen over the use of Zimmermann brake rotors, I am simply asking for opinions of the brand. Good or Bad ?!?

MBRedux

Bad, and here's the proof...



These are Zimmermann rotors. But I never mentioned these in the other thread.

GLKMM

So why didn't you start with this to begin with ?
So I should have bought ATE, FEBI, or Brembo, and saved even more money ! Right ?!?

GLKMM

Click on the picture to enlarge please.

Brembo

Brembo

Brembo

Brembo

Brembo

Baer

Sooo which one should you choose... Seems they are all in very similar condition to the big one above ?!?

GLKMM

Take a look at these babies which one would you pick ?!?


Ate

Porsche

Porsche

GT-R
Look closely for the cracks forming, after some more aggressiveness on the brakes and they'll be done.!!!

GT-R

Race

GLKMM

Still debating
The following are all racing applications...

Take a close look on the cracks which are starting to form..

GLKMM

The racing rotor came from this Race Car...

GLKMM

Let me rephrase the topic of the initial post.

What do you think about Zimmerman rotors intended for an everyday driven, up to speed limit car with no abrupt braking maneuvers, as in a race competition ? Would you guys install them on a GLK as an alternative replacement or you will go with something else, and by the way there are no cross drilled Zimmermans for the GLK, or at least I have not seen yet !?!

MBRedux

Wow .... my answer to your kazillion posts is the same. No... They'll crack no matter what application... (it just may take a little longer off the track) because they're made of cheap iron and they're cross drilled. No one in my circle uses cross-drilled rotors anymore for this reason... they're so 80's anyway!

GLKMM

I still do not understand how are the replacement rotors related to the cross drilled that you continue to talk about? Am I not asking the question correctly? or you refuse to read it correctly?
So you are basically saying that the zimmermans I have on my glk as a replacement are cross drilled...?
I AM TELLING YOU THAT THEY ARE NOT !
I HAVE NOT FOUND ZIMMERMAN CROSS DRILLED FRONT ROTORS FOR THE GLK SO WHY ARE YOU INSISTING THAT THERE ARE FRONT CROSS DRILLED ZIMMERMAN ROTORS FOR THE GLK ! tHE ONLY AFTERMARKET VENDOR FOR CROSS DRILLED ROTORS FOR THE GLK SO FAR IS BREMBO !

shotgun_banjo

I think it will be okay to place a aftermarket cross drilled rotors on our GLK and on ANY car driven for everyday use. Why? because I did that on my previous honda accord coupe and the rotors (all four) was installed on 2005 and when I sold it 2 years ago the rotors are fine. I know the new owner (young mechanic) and he said the rotors are still fine (no hairline cracks) he just replaced the brake pads.

I donnu about the zimmerman rotors but just to let you guys know that the rotors I placed on my car were bought from ebay but was made in Canada (cheap ones!!!) and those where used everyday going through city traffic and downhill grades and worked better than the OEM rotors.

In short, if I ever my GLKs rotors needed replacement I will do it again without a heartbeat. I think everything brakes IF it was abused more than what it was designed for.

GLKMM

Thanks for the info, I am simply trying to say the same as you, I also share the same good experience with aftermarket cheaps.

rmfnla

Whew!

GLKMM

yualfred

Do you not know the USD is the new cheap?

GLKMM

shotgun_banjo

LOL TRUE! I just cross the border 4 days ago and have canadian money on me and spend it on the local shops there and the conversion is like $.90CAD per $1 US. But if you use plastic it is opposite and the Canadian currency is higher.

BTW...I got stares on Seattle and I barely saw another GLK on the road. I didn't see people puking though when they are looking at the car they just have a fascial expression like "WTF is that?"

MBRedux

The question remains, are OEM brake components better than aftermarket? In most cases the answer is yes, OEM is best. Please allow me to try and explain the complexity in mixing the correct recipe for iron rotors. The properties of iron are changed by adding various alloying elements. Next to carbon, silicon is the most important because it forces the carbon out of the compound. If all carbon was allowed to stay in the mixture, it would form graphite resulting in a softer, low strength iron with decreased density thus yielding a fast wearing rotor with excessive black brake dust. (That’s right, a soft carbon rich rotor will produce higher amounts of black graphite dust on your wheels. Pad composition is not the only factor when it comes to brake dust.)

On the other hand, sulfur when added to the composition forms iron sulfide, which prevents the formation of graphite and increases the hardness. The problem with sulfur is that it makes the molten cast iron sluggish, which can cause short run defects in the casting process. So to counter the effects of the sulfur, manganese is then added to form manganese sulfide instead of iron sulfide! The manganese sulfide is lighter than the rest of the molten iron mixture so some of it tends to float out of the melt and into the slag, or trashcan. If you have ever seen a video of the smelting process, this is what those guys are scooping off the top of the molten iron. The amount of manganese required to neutralize the sulfur varies depending on the application. Now enter nickel, one of the most common alloys in the process because it refines the pearlite and graphite structure within the compound which improves toughness, and evens out hardness differences between sectional thicknesses. Chromium is then added slowly in small amounts to the ladle to reduce the formation of free graphite, produce chill, (promotes even cooling) and because it is a powerful carbide stabilizer; nickel is often again added in conjunction. A small amount of tin can be added as a substitute for chromium. Next comes copper which is added in the ladle or in the furnace to decrease chill, refine graphite, and increase the molten mixture’s fluidity.

Molybdenum can also be added to increase chill and refine the graphite and pearlite structure; it is often added in conjunction with nickel, copper, and chromium to form high strength irons. Titanium (read as $) is added to decrease gas formation and as a deoxidizer, but it also increases fluidity. Vanadium (read as $$) is added to cast iron to stabilize cementite, the #1 killer found in cheap rotors. It also increases hardness, and increases the resistance to wear and heat! (With Low Dust Too!)... properties usually found in expensive OEM brake rotors as well as quality aftermarket rotors.

Getting this recipe just right during the smelting process is what separates expensive rotors from cheap ones! It’s an ancient and creative process that takes much practice, something OEM suppliers (as well as a few aftermarket suppliers) do have... but expect to pay for it. (Ever wonder why OEM parts as so expensive? It's not only the dealer with his hands in your wallet, better parts do cost money to make!)

GLKMM

Unfortunately he's right...

MBRedux

...only because it just went over your head... I see now why you're an "Ex" MB shop foreman. It actually makes no difference if they're cross drilled or not. Maybe you'll understand this language a little better. If the iron in the rotor sucks, then they'll suck regardless if they are cross drilled, slotted, plain or BBQ'd!

MKenM

I have been following this thread from the beginning when GLKMM asked a simple questrion that no one has seen fit to answer. I have trusted MBRedux's responses as being fair and coming from a knowledgeable source but with that in mind based on his story of the makeup of rotors does anyone think that there is a label on the rotor showing its contents (composition) similar to that which you would find on a food product?

If the mind set of the seller of auto parts were to raise the price of certain parts to make the consumer think it was a better product we would all be in trouble fast. I understand that people might catch on sooner than later but you just never know.

So that all important question who makes the best rotors without going to $1K ceramic rotors? And yes we want to know if Zimmerman is up there.

MBRedux

No... they're not up there! And I did respond to his "simple question" with a simple "no" along with an attached photo. Then he wished to know if it was fair to condemn all Zimmerman rotors, even if they're not cross drilled? I then answered in the affirmative. But he wished for more, so I took the liberty to explain how complex it was to make good quality cast iron rotors that directly translates into higher costs. And that cheap iron can be detected by a good mod jobber or mechanic at the time of purchase, that is if they know their stuff. If not, if you're an amateur relying on looks only, you will be ripped off. So you get what you pay for.

GLKMM

Unfortunately you Mbredux could not answer the questions! "POINT" You seem to be right about everything but make a note I said "You seem to be"."POINT" Your sportsmanship is weak full of cheap shots, if you have followed all the info correctly you would have answered that way, unfortunately you have not !!! Maybe I did not post the pictures correctly but any brake rotor out there will brake and also I have very satisfactory experience with Zimmermans, and its a FACT...! "POINT" OEM rotors for GLK won't last any longer either, something you refuse to accept. And again it is a GLK not a dragster... Next thing you know, you'll suggest to us parachutes
Simply because you hate the brand it is not made worst than others, by the way why is a nissan rice guy so interested in he's wife's car, which happened to be a mercedes... Don't answer that. Or whatever since you have not managed a single time to answer the questions.
Obviously you are hot head with even hotter ego. I would definitely not take any of you credibility under consideration ever. Someone like you belongs on the track just as you have been trying to prove through this whole debate. You have nothing to do with mechanics but just replace parts with the most expensive you can find, or should I say the ones that you believe are the best for your reputable rice shop... I hope your crowd is satisfied with you skimming their wallets! "POINT"
SO PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE WITH EXTRA SUGAR ON TOP, DO YOUR SELF A FAVOR AND GO TAKE DOUCHE... I CAN BE JUST AS INSULTING AS YOU ARE...

GLKMM

Again big ego no brain, READ THE QUESTION THE MAN ASKED YOU AND THEN ANSWER.... I am trying to write to you slow because I realized that you read slow... He did not ask if he's going to get ripped off or not but which one to get, something I asked many times in the previous tread, and something that you manage to blow out of proportion without a clear answer...Oh I am sooo sorry you actually did tell us, or kind of agreed with me, but that was on the other post..., AND... IT'S BREMBOOOOOOOOOO, nissan's favorite one... I knew that you are a douche since the first negative reply from you...

GLKMM

By the way Zimmerman are originally made in Germany and used vastly as a replacement for all german and not so german automobiles... Unfortunately I am from there and know for a fact, but this doesn't count since I am not on a credible level in this forum... So I'd say they are simply the worst... Which reminds me that Mercedes is also made in germany by the same regulations and standards, maybe we should all agree that they are the worst as well..., afterward this is a post about a german car we all seemed to like... And I said seemed since Mbredux is a nissan guy with a reputable nismo shop... Hmmmmmmmm, enemy inside, interesting concept... Or maybe one of those eager to push the product sales people who will specificly tell you not to buy the competition and of course try to explain why in very made up way and also sway you away from the facts and the proofs... Very very interesting hmm